Sails making process

[Michelnou]

I plan to make a test of making a sail.

I have choosen silkspan as material and to start, several questions come to mind about the process :

- Is it essential to use a wood frame to work on the silkspan sample ?

- How to obtain the right color to favor realism of the sails (US schooner 1820), it was certainly not white, which are the colors to mix ?

- Is it the right method to refold the edges of the sail on a rope to strengthen them and thus create head, tack and clew eyes ?

I thank you for the advices

Mike

 

[druxey]

Mike: the small booklet on making SilkSpan sails from SeaWatch Books will answer all your questions. However, if you wet any form of paper, it will buckle and distort as it dries. Therefore one wets and stretches paper on a frame. It will dry taut and flat. If rewetted (with dilute acrylic paint, for instance) it will stay flat as long as it is stretched until dry. Then one can cut it free and it will not buckle.

[allanyed]

Michel

Absolutely get the booklet that Druxey mentions.   It goes into all the details including proper paints to use to get the color you want.   Added to the booklet which I used with success, I did change the method of making the seams to using paint markers that were slightly darker than the sail color once it was painted.  You can trim the tip of the marker to the width of the seam which would be about 2" real world.  I used Liquitex but there are others.  Using the marker and a straight edge yielded great results, better for me personally than using a brush in my shaky hands.   https://www.dickblick.com/products/liquitex-professional-paint-markers/    scroll down to a wide selection of colors.  I am sure there are many more suppliers in Canada in addition to this one here in the States but this site will give you an idea of what is available if you care to try this method.

Allan

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by allanyed

[thibaultron]

Also note which country your ship/boat comes from. Europen sails were generally a yellower shade than US sails, during the transition to modern canvas sailcloth (witch the US changed to sooner), and some countries had red sails, at least on smaller craft. The sails on the small French fishing boats, like the Sinagot I'm modeling were red, and even today the existing Sinagots, may have either red or white sails, sometimes both, with the red sails having patches of modern white Dacron cloth

[wefalck]

The colour of the sail cloth, of course, depends on the material that was used. In Europe mostly flax and hemp were used, while in the US, I believe, early on cotton was used. Flax and hemp are a very light yellow-grey, if not bleached (which was only done for garmanents etc.), while the cotton fibre is already white.

 

Tp preserve sails on small fishing craft that did have little time to dry their sails properly, the sails were impregnated - tanned. Various procedures and concoctions were used, but in typically contained tallow, lineseed oil and ochre. The ochre gives the distinctive colour that can range from a light yellow to a deep red.

 

While in northern Europe painting sails went out of fashion around the 16th century or so, it persisted in the Mediterranean into the 20th century. Some Adriatic craft have rather colourful sails that serve to distinguish individual boats, but also may have 'protective' or 'votiv' functions (there may saints or their symbols being painted on, for instance).

[Roger Pellett]

In his excellent book, Hand, Reef, and Steer, Tom Cunliffe discusses Flax sails and provides instructions for tanning them as Wefalk mentions.  He also explains in his droll manner, that waterfront rats consider flax sails to be an important part of their diet so precautions need to be taken to protect them.  (The sails, not the rats!)

 

Roger

[wefalck]

I gather the tallow used in tanning is quite nutrious

 

[druxey]

Nutria (coypu) is a different rodent!

[wefalck]

nutricious 🤭

[Bob Cleek]

I remember the rats going crazy for shaft gland packing made of flax and tallow on a tug. They made a hell of a mess. I think it was the tallow that attracted them, not the flax. I expect they'd also have a taste for old-fashioned tallowed canvas tarps and oilskins.

[Michelnou]

Thank you for the answers.

 

In regards to sails colour, the schooner I have built is an American Baltimore 1820 schooner. Does this information determine precisely a colour shade, rather white, rather straw, rather umber ?

 

I own the little book writen by Antscherl about sail making and some points are not clear for me :

- Which material is used for the "insert" which support the silkspan in the frame ?

- I am astonished to use white paint to imitate the seams, I would rather have used a dark shade...

- Maybe I don't translate well, by I do not understand very well how are the boltropes tied to the sail. On this subject, I would like to know what you think of the method presented in the following video : https://www.lauckstreetshipyard.com/post/2017/05/12/making-silkspan-sails ?

 

Waiting to read you

 

Mike

 

 

[druxey]

Mike: The insert can be of any material that is the same thickness as the frame.

 

Usually the seams are drawn or painted with a slightly thicker paint than is used on the sail. It is not normally white.

 

Boltropes in this method are glued on using acrylic matt medium.

[allanyed]

Michel,

OFF white is probably appropriate.   Mix a LITTLE burnt umber and/or yellow with some white and keep track of the proportions as you mix until you find the color you want.   There are no color photos of vessels from that far back so no one knows the color other than descriptions words that some may have found and can share with you.

 

 

 

The seams just need to be slightly darker than the color of the sail.     Look at the build log for the Boothbay schooner under scratch builds and you will see one way of making these, but it generally follows the book by David Antscherl.   The sail making is near the bottom of the page.

 

As a side note, according to the USS Constitution Museum, flax was used to make sails in the US Navy until well into the 19th century so that may help you research the color a little bit.

 

Allan

 

[Michelnou]

Thanks to you, little by little I am progressing in sail making...

 

In real world, I wonder what was the ratio between the sail canvas thickness ant the boltrope diameter ?

 

And I wonder if Jibs had or not boltrope on the 3 sides ?

 

About the frame making, I have difficulties to understand why the empty volume inside the frame is filled by an element called "insert", you might as well use a board .

Mike

 

[wefalck]

You could check out

 

CONSOLIN, B. (1863): Methode pratique de la coupe des voiles des navires et embarcations. Suivi des tables graphiques facilitant des operations diverses de la coupe avec ou sans calcul, ouvrage offrant aux capitaines des reseignements utiles à la mer.- 194 p., Paris (Mallet-Bachelier).

 

MERLIN, J. (1865): Traité pratique de voilure ou exposé de méthodes simples et faciles pour calculer et couper toutes espèces de voiles.- 226 p., 7 pl., Paris (Arthus Bertrand).

 

They are both available as eBooks and may have information on the proportionate size of bolt-ropes.

 

To my knowledge, jibs would have bolt-ropes on all sides. Most of the sails of ocean-going ships from the 18th century onwards would have bolt-ropes all around, as they help to distribute the strain of the various attachment points.

[allanyed]

Michel

The insert is indeed a board.   I used the same material that I used for the frame so the thickness matched.   It does not have to be a perfect fit.  A clearance all around of 2mm or so is fine.  The purpose is to prevent the silkspan from sagging to the floor when it is first wetted for shrinking or when painted as it will sag again then tighten again.   There are some alternative ideas on You Tube as well although I prefer the painting methods in the booklet.   NB: - Use good quality tubed artist acrylic paints in any case.

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by allanyed

[druxey]

Also, if you do not have a removable insert, the paint-wet material will stick to the board, and will tear when trying to get it off!

[Michelnou]

I think I understood that during some phases of Antscherl process, the "insert" must be in its place and during other phases it must be pulled out.

 

Do you validate this statement ? In the affirmative, can you tell which are the phases durign which the insert must be pulled out ?

 

On the other hand, with a scale of 1/50, using silkspan for making sails, what should be the thread diameter employed for boltrope ?

 

In advance thank you

Mike

 

[wefalck]

The bolt-rope diameter is proportionate to the size of the sail and the weight of the cloth used to make the sail. Check out the above references and work it out for your model. There is no off-the-shelf recipe.

[Michelnou]

Hi Allen,

I have read your Boothbay 65 Schooner text. I find it very interesting.

I believe to understand that what you call "plug" is what Antscherl call "insert". Is it right ?

 

About 1820-1850, what was the width of each sail canvas strip on American schooners. In others words, what was the distance between two seams ?

Mike

[allanyed]

Bonjour Michel,  ça va?

Yes, what I call the plug is the insert, just a different name for the same thing.

From James Lees' Masting and Rigging p.136,   .....the usual width of a cloth (and a cloth, by the way,, is the sailmakers term for the canvas he uses) was 24 inches though in the 17th century a 25, 26 and 30 inch width was used.  Also, an 18 inch cloth was often used for staysails and jibs in the nineteenth century.

 

He also goes into great detail on the linings, bands, reef tackle pieces,  buntline cloths and more.

 

As to bolt ropes on square sails keep in mind there are multiple bolt ropes, not one continuous rope.  On square sails the head rope is the smallest at 0.40 the size of the leech and foot ropes which were the same size.   Lees points out that it would take volumes to list all the sizes of bolt ropes for all sails for all ships and eras.  For model purposes he suggests ratios for the various sails to their respective stays on page 139. 

 

Leech and foot ropes  for square sails:

Main course - 0.33X the main stay

Fore course - 0.33 X the fore stay

All topsails 0.67 X their respective stays

Topgallants -0.5 X their respective topsail leech and foot bolt rope size

Sprit sail 0.6 the leech and foot bolt rope of the fore course

Sprit topsail same as the fore topgallant

There is a lot more, but these should help.

 

For jibs and stay sails it is different.  On four sided stay sails (Lees, page 152) the head rope is twice the size of the leech, foot and luff ropes.  On three sided sails, the bolt ropes were the same on all three sides.  The proportions are ratios to the main topmast stay from 0.2 to 0.4 depending on which sail.   Again, Lees points out that these proportions are good for model makers but are not  necessarily exactly to scale.  

 

Allan

 

 

[Michelnou]

Ça va bien , merci !

Thanks for data about boltropes size.

 I wonder what was the width of seams ? I have read one inch and also two inches ?

 

What advices would you give to a beginner who puts into practice Antscherl process for the first time ?

 

I plan to start my task with the Flying Jib which seems more easy to make than square sails. As my American Baltimore schooner kit don't really include sails drawing, do you know the specificities to observe for that jib ( for exemple ratio between sides...) ? On the other hand, on the attached pictures, we saw the Flying jib placed at the bottom of the stay for one and placed in the middle of the stay for the other. Do you know why ?

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

[allanyed]

Hi Michel,

Sorry, but I have no experience nor have I ever researched Baltimore clipper schooners so cannot help too much.   The sizes and ratios of flying jibs, jibs and stay sails are given in detail on pages  151-152 in Lees' Masting and Rigging for British ships, not American ships.   If you don't mind using British figures, I recommend you get that book as it will help you here and hopefully for future builds for all the details regarding making and rigging masts, spars, etc. 

 

Advice on following the booklet from David Antscherl?   Make one or two sails to test how things are working.   He is a member here so if you run into problems and post questions in this forum I am sure you will get responses from him and/or others that have used his booklet as a guide.

 

The only way to know what questions will arise is to make your first sail.   My last project required a myriad of sail sizes but I started with a small frame to do a test on for one small sail.  Once I felt comfortable with the process, including small changes that worked better for me, I made a large frame that allowed several sails to be made at a time.   

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I've pondered sails on models in general, perhaps focusing on clippers.  The sails on some models are somewhat limp, although I've seen a couple where thin wire concealed where the perimeter folds over can be manipulated to give the sails a little shape as if the wind isn't too strong.  A clipper laid up for some time might have the sails taken off (the 'no sails' option - meaning no running rigging except perhaps clew lines and sheets).  Many have taken that approach.  One forum member proposes to have only a few sails set (as seen in many period prints and engravings), with the others furled (a compromise approach).  A sail to be shown furled might be only a third (vertically) of a full-size sail so with won't look "too bunched up" when furled.

 

  I suppose Clippers in port to unload cargo and take on other cargo would have sails furled, and they could have the 'look' seen also in many contemporary illustrations, where the sail material is somewhat "festooned" ... like bunting.  The bunt lines are pulled enough to gather the sail in arcs - hanging a lower towards the middle.  The reason being the relatively short time the ship would be in port.  I suppose the upper 'split' topsail and topgallant yards might have no sail mounted at all, and could be in the lowered position where the lifts are taut - ergo no bunt lines needed for them.  A couple of jibs could be down, with the others omitted.  No stay sails either, so there would be a moderate amount of running rigging to mess with - and there would be a good view of all the deck detail.  Adding scale figures would be nice.

 

  Just wondering how this all sounds ....

[wefalck]

Sailing ship often spent weeks or months in port, waiting for cargo or the right winds for their trips.

 

After arriving and in suitable weather, the sails may be 'shaken out', hanging limp from the yards etc., which are not raised - in order to dry. According to old photographs, this was a rather common sight.

 

And this is most difficult way of showing sails, as in this state the thickness of the material becomes really perceptible through the creases and pleats they form - most materials, even silkspan, are too thick to represent this convincingly.

Edited October 29, 2021 by wefalck

[allanyed]

 

4 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

'no sails' option - meaning no running rigging except perhaps clew lines and sheets).

   

John

Looking at photos of a number of rigged contemporary models, the vast majority have no sails but nearly all running rigging is in place.  As with the clew lines for example, leech lines and bunt lines are knotted on the end that would attach to the sail if it were in place and start at the blocks on the spars then rove through the appropriate lead blocks and then to their belaying points.   Sheets and tacks are rigged as well as lifts and more.    How many lines "should" be rigged if no sails are included??  To each his own.    

 

Allan

[Bob Cleek]

55 minutes ago, allanyed said:

 

   

John

Looking at photos of a number of rigged contemporary models, the vast majority have no sails but nearly all running rigging is in place.  As with the clew lines for example, leech lines and bunt lines are knotted on the end that would attach to the sail if it were in place and start at the blocks on the spars then rove through the appropriate lead blocks and then to their belaying points.   Sheets and tacks are rigged as well as lifts and more.    How many lines "should" be rigged if no sails are included??  To each his own.    

 

Allan

This is pure conjecture, but I believe there is a rational basis for which running rigging is left aloft and which is not when sails are "sent down," rather than an "up for grabs" "to each his own" decision. The "proper" arrangement of running rigging when sails are absent comes apparent, it seems, when we contemplate the operation of a full-sized vessel. Whatever is aloft has to be carried or hauled aloft and once aloft, isn't likely to be "sent down" if it doesn't need to be. Consider a square sail which which is to be repaired and reworked in port and so is "sent down." The sail is furled and tied off in stops and then lowered to the deck in the form of a "sausage." When it's returned from the sailmaker's loft, it's hauled aloft as a 'sausage" again and the head is secured to the yard. It makes sense that a sheet, for example, would be left aloft by tying a figure-eight knot in the bitter end and letting it stop in the block, running the fall to the belaying pin below. There would be no need to sending down the sheets, buntlines, brails, and so on when the sail was sent down. They all could be easily reattached when the sail was sent back up. Cordage, particularly wet cordage, can get heavy in a hurry, so it's going to be left aloft unless it has to be sent down for some particular reason. Similarly, for example, a headsail would be lowered and removed and it would make no sense at all to do anything with the halyard but to tie the hoisting end off at the foot of the stay and the fall at the pinrail.  On the other hand, It wouldn't be shipshape to leave the jib sheets laying about the deck if the jib was gone. The sheets would be coiled up and stowed on the rail or wherever was convenient. It's all about reducing the work aloft to the minimum amount necessary.

 

If one keeps this in mind, what running rigging stays aloft when there are no sails bent on becomes a fairly logical determination. No? 

[Mark P]

Good Morning Michel;

 

The usual practice when sails were taken down from the yards was as follows:

 

On lower yards the sheet, tack and clew/clew garnet line, which are all attached to the clew of the sail, were shackled or lashed together in the raised position where they would have been when the sail was furled, or hauled up tight to the clew blocks on the yard. On the upper yards the sheet and the clew lines were similarly fastened together in the 'sail furled' position. Buntlines, leech lines and slab lines were made fast to the jackstay, if fitted, or to their lead blocks on the yard if no jackstay was present. 

 

For headsails, the halliard and downhaul were made fast to the traveller, or hitched to the lower end of the say. 

 

I do not remember where I read all this, it was a long time ago, so I cannot give the name of the book it was in, unfortunately. 

 

I attach below a photograph of a model of the Yarmouth, an 18th century model in the NMM. If you look carefully at the mainyard, you will see the position of the ropes normally attached to the mainsail. Ignore the yardarm tackle which is stowed horizontally and made fast to the futtock shrouds or stave. 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  So much to consider ... and learn about.  I've seen clipper photos 'on deck' where the number of belayed lines are vast ... appearing to be a 'jungle' yet each line is routed to where it goes without crossing or rubbing on something (ideally).  'Learning the ropes' will take time, and what to include on any model - well, that may depend on the limit of skill, dexterity ... and sanity.  Inevitably, compromises will occur.

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I've been thinking further (yeah, lots of thinking and little building ... When I said 'I was thinking'  the Admiral replied, "That's why I smelled wood burning."). Old ships were fairly complex machines where sailors were the 'motors' that pulled (hauled) on all the ropes, made fast or loosened, adjusted and repaired everything - and everything had a function.  With so much to do, non value-added activities were to be avoided.  So it is logical that most (if not all) of the running rigging would stay in place.

 

  The blocks for the bunt lines are on the small size ... what, a 4" block full size?  That's about 100mm - so for a 1:96 model (I call it 1:100 for ease of calculations), I'd need a 1mm block to be in scale.  Golly, I don't think I can work with one that small.  So there is an advantage to working at around 1:50, since the same block is 2mm in scale.  Then again , a clipper at 1:50 will be something like 6 feet long ...  Thus for the 1:96 project one can consider 'compromising' by using 1mm brown beads tied to the yard as the buntline 'blocks'.  The fairleads tied inside the shrouds could be 2mm deadeyes (with the three holes carefully enlarged a little, for ease of passing lines through).  They would be a bit out of scale, but not obvious, being mounted on the inside of the shrouds.  I suppose the bunt lines are something like 1/2" rope - let's round it to 15mm - so making one's own scale rope (0.15mm) using Chuck's ropewalk and experimenting with fine thread stock could yield something workable that would still resist breaking, and would be easier to thread through small holes than what is ordinarily supplied as rigging 'rope'.

 

  Looking at stock photos of the Sergal/Mantua Thermopylae in 1:124 scale shows that the blocks and deadeyes are all well out of scale (among other inaccuracies) and there are builds attesting to the difficulties of crafting a big ship at that scale.  'Guess you 'pick your poison'.