Mayflower by LCdr Dave - Billing Boats - 1:60

[LCdr Dave]

“Start a build log”, they said….

OK, here goes. Falling back my army background I will be spending time in reconnaissance, planning and finally execution. If you checked back on my intro, I picked up this kit at a 2nd hand shop. The previous owner (PO) started it and got as far as decking and planking the upper hull. I know zippo about ships and have never built a wooden ship so I apologize in advance for any confusion or my lack of what may appear to be basic knowledge. 

I took inventory of the remainder of the parts and am trying to figure out what they are and what they are for. I can somewhat match the physical description with the written one but the part names don’t always make sense to me.

 

[LCdr Dave]

Hey, I like how easy it is to post pictures on this site. I have been on other sites where doing so required many steps and use of picture-sizing software, etc.

The more I study the plans and the extremely cryptic and generalized instructions, the more I am getting a feel of the steps to build this ship, but the without an itemized list of parts and where they go, or which use they have, I am afraid of misusing something or using it up for the wrong part. More study, I guess……

My other worry (there are lots, I see) is missing a step and closing in something to which I need access later. For example, while looking at the drawings I noticed that the bowsprit gets tied down to a support (no idea what it’s called) and there needs to be a slit cut through it for the cord to run through. This hasn’t been cut out on mine but I see the mark where it needs to go. Maybe one disaster averted? 

Here is a sample of the lack of instructions.. I need to taper (I guess) the rudder but where and to what dimension?

[LCdr Dave]

Here’s a picture of the ship from the instruction book. It seems that the bow extension is wood but the manufacturer has included a plastic piece. Wood definitely looks better. Will have to try to replicate that.

[LCdr Dave]

Some more mysteries to solve. The rigging diagram shows which thread to use where (fantastic!) but I also have two spools of thread that aren’t mentioned anywhere. A spool of Coats thread and a larger spool of nylon thread. Maybe PO thought she would use different thread for rigging than what was supplied?

The other diagram has numbers in circles pointing to parts and I don’t know what they mean - they don’t relate to the actual part numbers, they aren’t colours, no idea. I’m stumped. More noodling required.

[Baker]

Step 1 

Start a build log 👍

Step 2

Step by step we will get to the finish 😉

 

[David Lester]

The work that's been already done on the model looks pretty good to me. It doesn't appear that you will have to undo anything, which is really nice. With respect to your questions - I'm not familiar with Billing plans, but I'm pretty sure the circled numbers are belaying points, that is, the points where rigging lines end and are tied off. In the last picture, there are some blocks also identified with circled numbers. You will probably find that the circled numbers on the blocks will correspond with circled numbers on the deck area. Someone else more familiar with Billing plans may have a better answer, but I think this is likely the case.

With respect to the rudder, it's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like there might be some tapering from about the mid point forward. I think the key is to ensure that after parts 36 and 37 are glued together that parts F856 will fit over the assembly properly. If some tapering is necessary to make F856 fit properly then that will be your answer. If they fit properly without tapering, then if it were me, I wouldn't worry about it. In the photo the aft end of the rudder doesn't appear to be tapered.

I hope that's of some use to you.

David

[Paul Le Wol]

Hi LCDr Dave, David is correct. Here’s a page from a Billings set of plans that I have. Good luck with your Mayflower. It looks very nice.

 

 

I guess I should mention that they are not Mayflower plans but the symbols should be the same 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Paul Le Wol

[Baker]

Billing's plans are indeed usually rather simple.
Google for Model Shipways' Mayflower plans. They are much better and can give an answer many of your questions.

 

[DavidG]

I see your model is an older version, with only partial laser cutting and built up bulkheads. 

I actually built this one ~20+ years ago, it was my first ever wooden ship. I fear I'm not much help on the rigging diagram as of now, but as a first build I was able to manage it through somehow. I'm sure you will as well. When you get to rigging stage, I'm happy to look into the model for specific parts. 

I still love the look of the ship, I find it well balanced between size, sails, rigging, ornaments etc. There are several plastic parts, but it is not difficult to replicate them in wood. Just like the bow area you mentioned.

The task on hand is now to plank the hull. There are several good tutorials on the subject on this site.

 

But let me have an observation on your build. On the prototype, the quarterdeck bulwarks run parallel to the deck:

at the same time, the bulkheads in this area are short, and if they used as a guide for planking, as they appear to be, the rails will slope downwards. I made the same mistake on my build. The bulkhead tops should be extended, and the planking needs adjustments.

I recommend to take the decal sheet comes with the kit with all the ornamentation, and use it (or it's copy) to check the fit. Then you can avoid the same error I made. I attach a picture of it. Look at the rails. The decals had to be cut. Please don't be too harsh with it:) it was my first ever try;) Actually I may rebuild it sometime with better skills and materials.

good luck for your build.

 

 

[LCdr Dave]

David, Brilliant! That makes sense with respect to the rudder - I will go with that. Again, that the belaying points are shown with numbers makes sense and explains why the same-looking part has a different number associated with it. Apparently my hope hope of ever making it out of an escape room are slim-to-none….. Thanks!

Dave

[LCdr Dave]

DavidG, Thanks for that insight. I will include checking the decal fit into my list of recce assignments. BTW, I would be proud to have your ship adorning my place. I was a little worried about the garrishness of the Green/Yellow geometrics but it looks good on your model.

Cheers,

Dave

[LCdr Dave]

Bit of an update...I had the plans copied so I could scrawl over them. I managed to figure out blocks and eye bolts go where for the most part. There are some anchor points on the ship that don't seem to be specified. Not sure if it is a hole or an eyebolt - again, more scrutiny required.

I did a complete inventory of all the parts and, lo and behold, they are all accounted for! The mizzen mast seems to be poorly tapered, however. It is definitely longer than need be but the bottom end seems too narrow - it rattles around in the deck hole (am I using proper navy terminology...LOL). It also seems to get a bit fatter higher up and I am hoping that if I cut it down, the wider part will fit OK. 

That brings me to another question. The upper masts seem to be the correct diameter, according to the drawings, but the tops or bottoms won't fit into the brackets that are supplied. Am I better to enlarge the holes (one is square, the other round) or taper the mast more. Bringing the diamter down to fit the hole, I think will make the mast too skinny. Maybe square off the bottom to fit and likewise step the top to fit - or a bit of both. As I write, I'm thinking that changing the proportions of the masts is a bad idea and making steps to slide into the existing holes is a better one.

The anchor seems to be just hanging from a couple of dead-eyes and is tied off on the railing. No chain or heavy rope at all. I assume this is not historically accurate, but I will have to figure our how the anchor was actually deployed and fastened while travelling.

There has been so much info on this site and the assistance, so far, has been great. I am looking forward to getting my hobby desk finished so I can get to work. 

Oh, and good news - it looks like my rudder fits the brackets, so no tapering!

Cheers,

Dave

[LCdr Dave]

Patrick, thanks for the suggestion to look at the Model Shipways instructions. So many questions answered! 
Freakin’ brilliant!
Dave 

[LCdr Dave]

It’s been a while but my time was spent noodling and finishing my hobby desk. So now I can get back to this project. Closer examination of the drawings and my model revealed that the previous owner added one too many planks at the stern so I will need to cut one out.

 

 

I sanded the bulwarks to get a more even gluing surface and to bevel them appropriately. This led to the observation that No. 9, on both sides, needed shimming. I dug around my workroom and found some thin veneer-like shavings that I glued down. Hopefully that will do the trick. I didn’t want to end up with a bit of a divot happening there.

 

 

More measuring determined that some of the bulwarks are a bit too short, in relation to the drawing. What is a “bit” well sometimes it is .5mm and others it is almost 2mm. I am debating whether to remove the offending members completely and just glue in a bit of wood, similar in size, or just get them to some semblance of even so that the railing looks OK.

Almost ready to start planking! I’ve been going over the various PDFs on the site here and watched a video or two over and over again and I think I have the theory down. Of course, as we said in the Army - no plan ever survives the start line.

Cheers,

Dave

 

[ccoyle]

16 minutes ago, LCdr Dave said:

my time was spent noodling

 

You mean like fishing bare-handed for catfish, or some other kind of noodling?

[allanyed]

David

Your attention to the little things will continue pay huge dividends.  Great to see you doing this.

 

Chris,

Not too many members are familiar with noodling, so I was happily surprised to see your comment.  I learned noodling from Melvin E. "Catfish" Glisson in the early 70's in western Kentucky and it was fun until a water moccasin got too close for comfort.  I went quickly back to ship modeling and fishing from a boat. 

 

Allan 

Edited June 25, 2022 by allanyed

[LCdr Dave]

23 hours ago, ccoyle said:

 

You mean like fishing bare-handed for catfish, or some other kind of noodling?

Ok, then…..we’ll there aren’t too many catfish on the Western seaboard and I was blissfully unaware of said pastime. It was more along the lines of exercising the grey cells. 🤔

Allan, I am hoping I will catch errors before it’s too late. I’m not worried about authenticity; no one I know will have a clue as long as it looks good. I never would have caught on to the railing slope if it hadn’t been for another member’s sharp eye. 
I'm grateful for everyone’s observations. 
cheers,

Dave

[ccoyle]

Well, I live in the Deep South, and since I moved here I have yet to catch any catfish, whether by noodling or any other method. 😉

[LCdr Dave]

It’s been a while but I’ve been trying to figure out planking. I did some measuring and it looks like I need 4 bands to fit my 7mm planks into a neat 28mm band at the widest bulwark. That leaves about 10mm for the garboard plank. 

 

 

Here are some views of one side showing the proposed bands. I know I’m supposed to keep the garboard strake as level as possible and not let it ride up the bow but it looks I will have a problem with a weird  double bend at the transition from bottom of keel going up the bow. 
 

 

 

…and then the stern 

 

 

Any hints, tips, comments would be welcome. 
Cheers,

Dave

 

 

 

[Baker]

17 hours ago, LCdr Dave said:

Any hints, tips, comments would be welcome

A few "filler blocks" in front and back will give your planking more support during gluing the planks.
You don't have to this , but I think it will be easier to work (Billings kits usually only have one layer of planking)

[LCdr Dave]

I added a couple of filler blocks to get me some help with that front bit. That was tough to shape - wasn’t sure what the shape should actually be but I kept running some planking over it until everything seemed to sit flat-ish.

I finally attempted to lay the garboard planks but I’m not sure it’s going the way it should. I know I’m not supposed to let them run up the bow but I don’t see any way around that. I finally tried spiling the plank to get it to curve towards the keep a bit but I think I will still need to taper every plank and even drop some to fit them.

 

 

 

 

Nothing is glued yet. I can still try something different or modify them in some way, if someone has any ideas. Of course, in the awesome instructions Billing Boats has, there isn’t a single picture showing the planking of the hull, especially from the front.

In case anyone is wondering, I ended up putting a bit of water on my planks and the used an iron to bend them. I just held the moist wood under the iron, put some pressure on it, and pulled in the direction I wanted the curve to be. Worked like a charm. No waiting overnight for wet wood to conform to a shape, or boiling water, or using additives, jigs, or special tools - just pig-headedness and brute strength.

Happy Canada Day to my fellow Canucks!

Dave

[allanyed]

On 6/28/2022 at 11:20 AM, LCdr Dave said:

I know I’m supposed to keep the garboard strake as level as possible and not let it ride up the bow but it looks I will have a problem with a weird  double bend at the transition from bottom of keel going up the bow. 

David,

If this is a double planked model, no harm to get the second layer right.  For the second layer, look at some plank expansion drawings and study the Primer on Planking tutorial here at MSW in the articles data base.   Each plank should be tapered to about half its maximum width at the bow, but for the exact tapering you need to mark off each bulkhead to get the widths of each strake at that spot with tick strips or something similar as explained in the tutorial and in various posts here at MSW.  Also note that the strakes usually widen as they approach the stern post.   

Allan 

 

[LCdr Dave]

Unfortunately, it’s a single-planked model. I have gone over all the tutorials and literature I could find here but reading theory just isn’t the same as doing it. Once the rubber hit the road things were different. 
I guess I need to curve the garboard planks into the keel more, either by tapering or spiling…..or both. Then keep tapering the remaining planks at the bow. It looks as though the stern will need stealers or some consistent widening of planks. Once I get the garboard planks sorted I think things will be smoother. 
here’s hoping,

Dave

[allanyed]

Be sure to make tick strips and mark out every bulkhead.  It will prevent a lot of trouble.  For a visual rather than read on planking, the four part You Tube videos from Chuck Passaro is great.

Edited July 3, 2022 by allanyed

[Baker]

If it helps.
Did my single planking this way ( see link to post 52)
And yes my filler blocks are excessive. But this way they served as a first planking.
Planking in one layer went pretty smoothly 

 

 

 

[allanyed]

15 hours ago, Baker said:

Did my single planking this way ( see link to post 52)

Baker's planking is realistic looking and looks great!!  modelshipworld.com/topic/14188-pelican-later-renamed-as-golden-hind-by-baker-scale-145-galleon-late-16th-century/page/2/    His is a great example to follow whether or not you use filler blocks.  The kit design could use double the amount of bulkheads which would make planking far easier and reduce the need for the filler blocks which are a big help.

Allan

[LCdr Dave]

Thanks for the input, fellas. Patrick, your ship looks amazing. I may yet resort to complete filler blocks. Allan I did see Chuck’s videos and they were helpful. I think I have confirmed my earlier thoughts.  I need to spice my garboard planks toward the keel and possibly taper them. Tomorrow is a new day and I will see what can be achieved. 
Cheers,

Dave

[LCdr Dave]

So, it’s been a few days and many struggles as I try to get the planks to go down properly. I don’t how many times I read and re-read the primer(s) and anything else I could find on planking. I’m not sure if my wood is old and brittle or I’m not letting it soak enough or I’m rushing (there seems to be multiple opinions on how much water wood needs to move) but when I tried to bend it around the bluff bow it started to splinter or delaminate. I will experiment with times and moisture levels but that makes me worried about wasting all my wood (isn’t this hobby supposed to be relaxing?) I guess I can always get replacement basswood.

 

 

My other concern is that the planks on the bottom of the hull will not taper correctly towards the bow. Perhaps I spiled the garboard neighbours too much trying to get them to not go up the keel line? Maybe things will work itself out…… I am definitely painting the hull at this point so I guess I can fill and sand the heck out of it. It seems to my untrained eye that I will have planks widening at the bottom but narrowing at the top!? I also reach 1/2 plank width at the 2nd bulwark so I guess drop planks are a must. I have already added stealers to the stern.

 

 

 

As always critiques or hints are appreciated.

Thanks,

Dave

[LCdr Dave]

Here’s what I got goin’ on now.

 

[BikerMart]

In my experience the wood supplied for planking in Billings kits has been sub-par. More often than not I used 1/16 * 1/4 basswood strips instead, as you suggested.