Vasa By 72Nova - FINISHED - Airfix - PLASTIC

[72Nova]

Regarding those deadeyes, you didn't miss anything Shipman, they just happened to be in the picture with some of the thread I use per Kirill's request.

 

Michael D.

[shipman]

Thanks Michael.

 

So what is the story re your blocks, especially the smallest?

These must be extremely tiny....if you made them yourself, how?

You're making an inspiring model, thank you for your time and trouble sharing your methods and excellent photographs.

 

One of the last ship models made by the London Science Museum craftsmen, (before they collectively retired and left a vacuum) was a piece of art, but made decades before the actual ship research revealed many details and secrets were later published.

 

No doubt it was that model which inspired the Airfix product.

 

Don't know the order in which Airfix released their line of sailing ship kits, but surely their Vasa and St Louis must have been the final ones, before the company effectively abandoned nautical stuff to concentrate on the more lucrative aeroplane/armor subjects.

 

I do have quite a stash of most of these kits. The earliest releases are the ones to get; the superior detail definition and lack of flash is very evident, as is the progressive lower quality of plastic used, especially while they were being produced by the French Heller factory.

 

Examples of this are the original black plastic used on the Victory and Cutty Sark kits. The later brown plastics are butter soft by comparison.

Edited February 20, 2023 by shipman
Extra copy

[Hubac's Historian]

Shipman, is this the Vasa model at the Science Museum with a telescope to the interior?

[72Nova]

Thank you Shipman,

For the smallest deadeyes I used 0.50mm x 1.70mm styrene, using a chisel blade I just trimmed the corners off and cut out a notch on either side and used a #79 micro drill bit, once painted just cut it off the make ship sprue.

I believe the Golden Hind was their first sailing ship issue but have not found any timeline info/issue dates on the others, they did reissue the St louis around 1973 thru the 80"s but is not included in their vintage classics anymore, so it will be difficult to locate one these days. I will have to check out the science museum.

 

Michael D.

[shipman]

Michael, thank you for that informative description.

 

As for the SM model of the Vasa.....you'll be lucky to find it as they shamefully closed down their shipping gallery, years ago!

https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co427321/model-of-swedish-warship-wasa-warship

There are photo's of the Vasa Museums 1:10 model before it was coloured on the net, here's an example:-

Edited February 20, 2023 by shipman
New copy and photo

[kirill4]

Michael,

funny thing I was 100% sure You made those small deadeyes from copper strip :))) together with chain as single unit and that white middle area was light reflecting on the photo but now I see it was made from plastic strip and painted at the ends as wood ... very interesting how mind could play with seen objects makes You believe in existing of fiction things :)))

[shipman]

5 hours ago, Hubac's Historian said:

Shipman, is this the Vasa model at the Science Museum with a telescope to the interior?

Yup, that was the one!

When I saw it, only a few of the interior shots were working (due to lighting failures), but they did show the insides were very complete. When it was first displayed it was high tech state of the art stuff.

[Hubac's Historian]

Yes, I remember being similarly amazed when I saw it.

[Hubac's Historian]

Thank you for posting that link, Shipman.  It is fascinating how the model maker did not attempt to fill-in the blanks in the decor.  I can only imagine that the plan was to make carvings for the model as they made their way onto the actual ship.  Somewhere, I have pictures from my own Science Museum trip, back in 1993.  It would be interesting to see whether the model had changed in that span. I’ll keep you in mind, if I think to look for them in the near future.

[shipman]

15 minutes ago, Hubac's Historian said:

Thank you for posting that link, Shipman.  It is fascinating how the model maker did not attempt to fill-in the blanks in the decor.  I can only imagine that the plan was to make carvings for the model as they made their way onto the actual ship.  Somewhere, I have pictures from my own Science Museum trip, back in 1993.  It would be interesting to see whether the model had changed in that span. I’ll keep you in mind, if I think to look for them in the near future.

Marc, I do remember reading somewhere that the in house ship model craftsmen were in a kind of race to get the SM model completed before they retired.

 

I think they were the core last bastion generation of ship specialists there. Once they were gone, it seemed any maritime sympathies went with them.

 

The SM ship galleries were second to none and displayed some of the finest historical models ever made, from all periods.

 

Many exhibits were either donated or on loan. As many as possible were returned to their owners and/or distributed to other UK museums.

Edited February 20, 2023 by shipman
Extra paragraph.

[Hubac's Historian]

So true!  I don’t understand what is happening with maritime museums and their collections of ship models.  What the public is able to view, these days, is comparatively spare.

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

12 hours ago, shipman said:

Thanks Michael.

 

So what is the story re your blocks, especially the smallest?

These must be extremely tiny....if you made them yourself, how?

You're making an inspiring model, thank you for your time and trouble sharing your methods and excellent photographs.

 

One of the last ship models made by the London Science Museum craftsmen, (before they collectively retired and left a vacuum) was a piece of art, but made decades before the actual ship research revealed many details and secrets were later published.

 

No doubt it was that model which inspired the Airfix product.

 

Don't know the order in which Airfix released their line of sailing ship kits, but surely their Vasa and St Louis must have been the final ones, before the company effectively abandoned nautical stuff to concentrate on the more lucrative aeroplane/armor subjects.

 

I do have quite a stash of most of these kits. The earliest releases are the ones to get; the superior detail definition and lack of flash is very evident, as is the progressive lower quality of plastic used, especially while they were being produced by the French Heller factory.

 

Examples of this are the original black plastic used on the Victory and Cutty Sark kits. The later brown plastics are butter soft by comparison.

  You are Soooo right on the poor plastic (pale tan) used on the so-called Airfix "Vintage Classic" 1:145-150 (claimed to be 1:130 on the box) Cutty Sark.  The thin upper mast sections and the yards ben almost like rubber !  'Can't see how they an be rigged without deformation.  And I suspect that not all the molds are the original ones as well.  Hackney's modification of the tops to make lubber holes and fairleads do not agree with the pieces in the example I acquired to 'see for myself' just 'what's in the box' being sold today.

 

  The spindly top and topgallant masts are WAY smaller than the holes in the caps, making assembly problematic unless one fabricates time replacement caps - as well as make wood or metal upper mast sections to both fit properly AND avoid the deflection problem.  The yards have to be re-made as well due to the bendy nature.

 

  And a fair number of parts are deformed or not fully molded, with flash present as well in many areas - so the mold was run 'hot' and some of the sprues were therefore soft upon ejection and subject to deformation.  Also, photos of the model in the Hackney book show the fore and aft guardrails - that are not in the latter-day reissue.

 

  If one can find a genuine 'original issue' kit in much better black plastic, I suppose it might be worth building, but I simply 'binned' the above described re-issue as not being worth the time and effort to correct all the deficiencies.

 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Did some digging into Airfix history, and there are collectors of kits. Yup, just the unbuilt kits - and they go by the box numbers of the release. That goes for all sorts of kits - but we're interested in ships on this forum.  An excerpt from a history indicates that many molds had to be remade at a certain point in the many sales of the Airfoil name:

 

By 1981, Airfix had released over 800 models ranging from aircraft to dinosaurs and claimed to have, “The Largest Range of Construction Kits in the World”! In January 1981, however, the Airfix Company called in the Receiver largely caused by problems at its Meccano subsidiary and most of the toy divisions were closed for good. The kit division along with Airfix Model Railways (GMR) and, ironically, Meccano and Dinky were purchased by General Mills a U.S. company, and placed under its U.K. subsidiary, Palitoy. Production of Airfix products was transferred to General Mills’ Miro-Meccano factory in Calais. It was owned by General Mills under the Palitoy label until 1985 when General Mills closed its U.K. operation when it withdrew from the European toy market and was put up for sale again. It was then purchased by Humbrol, the model paint manufacturer in 1986.

Humbrol was based at Marfleet in Hull but production was transferred to the Heller factory in Trun, France, because Humbrol had recently purchased Heller. In 2006, Humbrol got into difficulties, when the Heller subsidiary, which had been bought out by its management, closed and Humbrol was unable to access its Airfix moulds. Humbrol and Airfix were purchased by the present owner, Hornby Hobbies Ltd, based then in Margate, Kent. Since then there has been a renaissance at Airfix with new tools being produced at a rate not seen since the 1950s-1970s with kits like the magnificent 1:24 Mosquito being modelled, and in 2014 we had an incredibly detailed 1:24 kit of the Hawker Typhoon being moulded. Many ‘tired’ old kits, like the Defiant, have recently been replaced by new ‘state of the art’ models and many new subjects added to the range, such as the Whitley and Shackleton.

Recently, Hornby sold the Margate site and moved to a new Headquarters at Sandwich, Kent, with stock being held at Hersden near Canterbury. Most production is carried out in India, but some models, including the Quick Build range are moulded in the U.K. Financial difficulties experienced by Hornby following the move resulted in a culling of the kit range. However, in May 2018, Airfix announced it is to bring back many of the older pre-Hornby models in a new range entitled “Vintage Classics”. The models will appear in the new Type 17 box top and will bear their old box illustrations with the year of original release being shown on the box, ensuring that modellers realise that it a ‘legacy’ kit. The company moved back into its old Margate site in early 2019, alongside the Hornby Visitor Centre which had remained there.

 

  The original CS nominal (1:130) of 1967 had a box number 09253-903, and the Wasa of 1972 (1:144 - likely the actual scale of their CS as well) was kit# 09256-906 per the pasted section of the relevant kit list of Airfix sailing ships characterized as "large".  If one wishes to hunt down any of the 'good' original issues, perhaps finding out where there might by a collectors' show of Airfix or similar items might be of some uses.

 

 

  Lots of luck.

[shipman]

Thanks SHJ, for the work put in there.

Can you please explain the two right hand columns?

 

Without digging even more, I think some of your info isn't quite correct, but not far off.

 

According to Hackney, the CS (originally marketed as 1:130) is actually 1:168. Victory (originally marketed as 1:180) is actually 1:171.

 

By Airfix standards, back in the day, their sailing ship kits were the largest they produced.

 

Even empty boxes have value to collectors.

Crazy World Enterprises LOL.

Edited February 20, 2023 by shipman
More copy.

[72Nova]

Likewise SHJ really appreciate your efforts, very informative info there.

Me personally I prefer the more pliable/ bendy plastics that lesson the break factor so to speak, up to this point I've had no issues with this reissued kit,( keeping fingers crossed) in regards to the masts not being up to the task.

Michael D.

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

19 hours ago, shipman said:

Thanks SHJ, for the work put in there.

Can you please explain the two right hand columns?

 

Without digging even more, I think some of your info isn't quite correct, but not far off.

 

According to Hackney, the CS (originally marketed as 1:130) is actually 1:168. Victory (originally marketed as 1:180) is actually 1:171.

 

By Airfix standards, back in the day, their sailing ship kits were the largest they produced.

 

Even empty boxes have value to collectors.

Crazy World Enterprises LOL.

 

18 hours ago, 72Nova said:

Likewise SHJ really appreciate your efforts, very informative info there.

Me personally I prefer the more pliable/ bendy plastics that lesson the break factor so to speak, up to this point I've had no issues with this reissued kit,( keeping fingers crossed) in regards to the masts not being up to the task.

Michael D.

     Ahoy Shipman and 72Nova   ...

 

  The text from a much larger history of Airfix was 'quoted' as a 'review' (I didn't write any of it myself, and wanted to respect the originator by only reproducing a small portion in our forum in the spirit of 'fair use' - for informational purposes only), and a specific sub-list of 'large' Airfix ships (per our scope of interest) was also pasted 'as is' - warts and all.  This info was found by repeated 'googling' (e.g. Airfix collectors, Airfix model shows, etc.) until stumbled upon - in that there seem to be Airfix collectors, and an EXTENSIVE list of every model ever produced by that manufacturer can be thus viewed by the public.

 

  You are quite right (my oversight) that Hackney specifies the issue scale of the CS as 1:168, and certainly the original effort at details such as 'pierced' fretwork at the bow, sub-miniature molding of CS scroll work at the bow (and a 3-piece sections inserted in the stern with 3D scrollwork, so no decals were needed), deadeye groups for the pin rail that have chainplate going through the rail and down at an angle to the water way - as well as separate mast segments, tops, caps & cross trees for assembly (permitting shroud loops at the option of the builder as the masts and yards are built in the order that a real ship was built per Hackney's book) was a masterful work of mold-making 'back in the day'.

 

  The state of my eyes and less-than-nimble fingers made dealing with the shortcomings of the 'Vintage Classics' version overly daunting.  I imagined that bonding spring wire to the tops of the yards (after replacing the top and topgallant mast sections with relatively firm wood) would limit selection of the yards - and would be completely disguised by having a little folded material grommeted on top of the yard to represent furled sails.  Once I've learned more (and other obtain an original issue kit or get a good buy on a PAIR of latter-day kits - to assure the likelihood of 'one good kit' in terms of non-deformed, fully-molded components) I might be tempted to try it someday ...

 

  I've no idea what the codes on the right hand side represent, and presumed them to be meaningful only to diehard kit collectors.  As a former train collector (Marx 3/16 'scale' freight cars that ride on O-gauge track), I realize just how far 'into the weeds' as collector of anything can go.  If it exists, there seem to be collectors of it.  I sold-off my train stuff a while back - as well as a bunch of astronomy gear and also U.S. Civil War small arms used for live-fire in the N-SSA (North-South Skirmish Association) ... can't hang onto everything.

 

  Airfix seems to have dabbled in a bunch of different "actual" scales (moldmakers' whims ?), as opposed to doing them all in, say, 1:144.  I see the 'ladder' now with how English (and American) scales bear a relationship -  twice 1:24 and you have 1:48.  Twice that and you have 1:96.  Add 24 more and you have 1:120.  24 more and you have 1:144.  So 1:120 would (sizewise, as volume is a different calculation) would be right between a 1:96 CS and a 1:144 version (if that existed).  Well, for the hell of of it, I found a 1:120 Monogram CS on Ebay (U.S. 'branding', so maybe there will be English instructions versus the Japanese found with Imai or Aoshima releases of the same components).  The flat black beads for blocks will be just about right in that scale.

 

  We'll see ...    Fair sailing, mates !                Johnny

[shipman]

I'm certain the deciding scale factor at Airfix for the ship kit series was a standard size box!

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

14 hours ago, shipman said:

I'm certain the deciding scale factor at Airfix for the ship kit series was a standard size box!

  You've cracked the case.   Per Occam's Razor, most often the simplest explanation is the right one.

[shipman]

Found this info ..... gives brief details of when the sailing ship kits were originally issued.

 

https://www.vintage-airfix.com/kits-category/airfix-ships/large-scale-classic-ships/

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

4 hours ago, shipman said:

Found this info ..... gives brief details of when the sailing ship kits were originally issued.

 

https://www.vintage-airfix.com/kits-category/airfix-ships/large-scale-classic-ships/

   Thanks, Shipman !   More news - today the Monogram issue of the 1:120 CS (first made by Imai) arrived.  A few Imai and Aoshima issues were also seen on Ebay, but I went for the Monogram because I figured there would be English instructions - versus the Japanese only one the other issues ... and my hunch proved correct !  Also it was the lowest price - about $125 plus $15 UPS from New Jersey to my small town well West of Philadelphia (by no means a suburb, as farms are nearby ... but 'civilization' is slowly creeping as we are on the road to Reading PA).   'Seems a little steep for a plastic kit, (as much or more than one can come by a Revell 1:96 CS or Thermie) but ... my opinion (as expanded below) is that it it worthwhile.  

 

  With anticipation I examined the box with the original cellophane wrapping almost completely intact - the seller did picture a small slit on one side of the plastic, but it did not go to the corners - so the contents were as manufactured and sold.  The cellophane was removed and the box opened, and I had to do a few double takes at the contents - some sprues were in their own thin but sealed plastic bags, and some not.

 

  At last I figured it out by both counting masts and yards PLUS looking through the instruction booklet.  BTW - the instructions are mostly line drawings with cursory text, and there is almost no advice on rigging.  So if someone gets a version with Japanese text, they are not missing much - its easy to see whats going on from the pictures and the Japanese use arabic numerals anyway.  The woody Joe Khufu barge kit I built had a LOT more text and other stuff, so I got a Google translate Ap for my 'somewhat smart' Tracphone used only occasionally - and I could translate almost all of the Japanese into English.

 

  In light of the above, Noel Hackney's book on building the Airfix CS will be VERY useful for building this (or any reasonably sized CS kit).  Noel did a fantastic job explaining certain details on modifying the kit before diving into construction, and this 1:120 kits can use many of them.  Of course, one has to do a bit of cross referencing to get through the book - but in the process I've learned a great deal.

 

  I note that in terms of hull length, this 1:120 kit is halfway between the 1:168 Airfix and the 1:96 Revell.  The Monogram kit has about a 22" hull not counting all of the keel projecting forward of the hull.  The quality of the tooling and molding is excellent.  I note that the deck has negative space between the planks instead of positive caulking as some other kits have (no joggling, though).  The masts and spars have some springiness to them - but not too much.  That means that they are not too rigid either, so should not be subject to stress breakage.

 

  Counting SIX masts threw me at first ... yes - 2 fore, 2 main and 2 mizzen masts (the three mast sections of each are molded together as a unit).  Some of the yards had studding sail booms extended, and some did not.  Then I saw the model built EITHER way in the instruction booklet - one version with extended booms and one where they are retracted.  So I counted ALL the yards and realized that one sprue has the three masts PLUS seven yards with extended booms - and this sprue was not in a plastic bag.  Other bagged sprues have the masts and all the spars with retracted booms (plus the yards with no booms that are common to both versions) !

 

  The kit is molded in 4 colors (like the 1:150 Academy CS ... but THAT kit only has extended booms - which forces one to either have it in full sail with studding sails, or having to cut-off and remount the booms inboard on the yards).  'Haven't looked on all sprues, but one said "Made in Japan".  Yet the booklet stares in BOLD type, "Plastic parts in this kit are molded in the United States from IMAI molds without any modifications".  The deadeyes/ratlines are molded, but doing them properly with actual deadeyes and thread seems doable at 1:120 scale.  The beads proposed for a possible build at 1:168 (oversized for the small scale, and I've given up on it anyway) are pretty close at 1:120.

 

  Thin molded plastic sails are in the kit (typical for several kits) - I'd never use them, but they could be forms for much thinner material treated with thinned water-based glue.  For 'harbor rig', they aren't needed at all.

 

  A couple parts were off their sprue from whatever handling occurred in at least 40 years of existence - and this is not uncommon for plastic kits in general.  A couple railing stanchions were not fully 'filled out', and one was broken off but in the box.  One of the topgallant mast molded ratlines is a bit deformed, but bendable and likely re-formable ... that is, if one wanted to use the provided molded ratlines.  No blocks were ever molded, but I saw one report of an early Imai kit that had some blocks bagged inside the kit.  My guess is that they may have thrown some plastic blocks in the first release, but economized soon thereafter ... and they were probably out-of-scale.

 

  What I'll have to do is take pictures and put a "kit review" together in the kit review section of the forum.  It would likely apply to any version of this kit, since the same molds were used by all.  I note that there are reports that late-issue Aoshima kits have more flexible yards due to softer plastic ... just saying.

 

  Fair sailing !           Johnny

Edited February 22, 2023 by Snug Harbor Johnny

[72Nova]

Thank you, Shipman, I checked out the numbers on my box and it's dated 1/20... nothing special and the only parts that had excessive amounts of flash were the deadeyes which I knew I wasn't going to use anyways and the trestle-trees, rest had the usual amount you'd normally find.

Johnny I'll be looking out for your review/pictures of the Monogram CS as it's piqued my interest .I appreciate the information guys.

 

Michael D.

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

On 2/22/2023 at 8:13 PM, 72Nova said:

Thank you, Shipman, I checked out the numbers on my box and it's dated 1/20... nothing special and the only parts that had excessive amounts of flash were the deadeyes which I knew I wasn't going to use anyways and the trestle-trees, rest had the usual amount you'd normally find.

Johnny I'll be looking out for your review/pictures of the Monogram CS as it's piqued my interest .I appreciate the information guys.

 

Michael D.

  Ahoy Michael !   The kit review has been posted for the 1:120 CS Monogram version in the kit review section (plastic).  'Hope it servers for now.   Johnny

[72Nova]

Thanks Johnny, I'll will check it out. Work continues on the fore topmast shrouds, just one left to do, also rigged the main topgallant stay and associated tackle, I made a mistake on this by starting the fall on the lower single block I had installed awhile back in the top instead of a single block at the end of the stay and did not feel like redoing it, so I had to use a double block at the end the stay, normally in most cases, not all, it would just made fast on the top.

 

Completed one futtock and the topgallant parrels.

 

Michael D.

  

[kirill4]

Good day!

Well Can Imagine how difficult what You are doing now! 

However it looks Great !

With single lead blocks for main and main top gallant stay on the fore mast - it sounds good and quite acceptable solution!!!

wasa_31.tif wasa_31.tif

Edited February 25, 2023 by kirill4

[72Nova]

Thank you Kirill. I secured the starboard fore lower lanyards and started on the port topmast ratlines, they look acceptable. Thanks for looking.

 

Michael D.

[kirill4]

Looks Great!!!

[Ian_Grant]

Michael, she's impressive! What are you using for those thin ratlines (asking for a close friend 😄)?

[72Nova]

Thank you Ian, you can tell your friend I'm using the #100 wt silk thread from superior threads...Hehe.

Michael D.

[72Nova]

This build has been very enjoyable and maddening at the same time thus far. I have renewed respect for the late, great Donald McNary.... what that man was able to accomplish at much smaller scales are mind boggling! Here's a few pictures of the progress I'm making on the fore mast, that topgallant yard is so small I couldn't use the 1.5mm blocks so I fabricated some using styrene and they look much better scale wise vs detail but oh well.

Thanks for looking.

Michael D.

[Hubac's Historian]

Scale is far more important, and your tiny blocks have a nice shape as well.  Really impressive work!