3D Brig 'Rose' in Blender 3.3x

[3DShipWright]

Starting work on the boats...

[Ab Hoving]

Leaving aside the recent discussion of hull details, I would most of all like to express my admiration for the way you have rendered the sails and rigging. I have never seen it done so well. I tip my hat for this beautiful work.

Ab

Edited January 23, 2023 by Ab Hoving

[3DShipWright]

@Ab Hoving Thank you very much!

[3DShipWright]

Just a quick render for fun before I start working on 'Rose' this evening

 

[3DShipWright]

@Martes - So I checked the height of the deck, and I think it's fine. I think it may have been an optical illusion caused by the outward tilt of the stern paneling plus the fact that Carronnades sit lower than even small cannons. The image below shows a mid-sized gun (9-12 pounder based upon the bore size, carriage is the same either way) positioned as a rear chase cannon.

 

Based upon @mtaylor's comment - I doubt whether this brig would even allow rear guns unless they were permanently fixed behind the tiller rigging, which seems unlikely. The plans also show something along the bottom edge of the stern ports, which I now believe to be mooring chocks.

 

Anyway, based upon this info, what's your read on the deck? You think we can we call it close enough? 

 

[Martes]

On 1/22/2023 at 3:22 AM, Martes said:

try to verify the positions of the stern ports, you should be able to fire through them

I only said it should be verified to be possible.

 

The chase guns on the brig were usually 9-pounders (although there were cases of long 24s (!) fitted).

They were, by default, mounted at the bow, but not at chase positions.

 

There was a long, international discussion about how the poop and the flying forecastle obstruct the use of chase guns, providing very little head room, etc., but on the other hand they were useful for sail tending and provided some degree of protection from weather, which was kind of critical in long commissions. This discussion went well into 1840's and ended with the end of the age of sail practically.

 

Anyway, the sailing ship is not a fixed structure, and if there was a real need to fire astern, a way could be found.

 

2 hours ago, 3DShipWright said:

Based upon @mtaylor's comment - I doubt whether this brig would even allow rear guns unless they were permanently fixed behind the tiller rigging, which seems unlikely. The plans also show something along the bottom edge of the stern ports, which I now believe to be mooring chocks.

 

So if you needed to really, really fire astern, you could remove the deckhouse partitions (they should have been removed anyway when the ship went to quarters, but just in case), unship the tiller, pass the control of the rudder to those chains via ropes overside (this works for the situation), bring the gun from the front of the ship, and fire. It is unlikely that you can position both guns there and fire (and reload) them both, but that would depend on how desperate the situation is, I guess. And then, if it works out, get everything back.

 

Another thing is that the ports should be able to be closed. I am not sure there were permanent lids fitted (most likely not), but, again, there is a number of situations when you could want them to be shut with something.

 

18 hours ago, 3DShipWright said:

Just a quick render for fun

She still rides very high, as if underloaded

Edited January 25, 2023 by Martes

[3DShipWright]

4 hours ago, Martes said:

Another thing is that the ports should be able to be closed. I am not sure there were permanent lids fitted (most likely not), but, again, there is a number of situations when you could want them to be shut with something.

 

 Yup, good observation:

I actually did the lids some time ago (see image), but I think that because of the very short distance between the hinges and cap rail, this brig would require the split-style port lids that fold both upward and downward. I was holding off from further work on them until I confirm the appropriate style.

 

Best,

-Nate

[3DShipWright]

@Martes - Also, can you talk to me about belfry's (or the lack thereof) for a ship like this. Right now I have a bell that's floating in mid-air...

Edited January 25, 2023 by 3DShipWright
spelling

[3DShipWright]

Actually, the Belfry question is open to anyone who'd care to comment. Thanks in advance folks.

[Martes]

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/33641-location-of-bell-on-a-cutter/

 

for some ideas.

 

Probably some makeshift stand forward, or, if you would go for a flying forecastle, between it's supports.

Nothing more concrete at the moment.

 

[Martes]

38 minutes ago, 3DShipWright said:

I actually did the lids some time ago (see image)

I meant lids on the stern ports.

 

The side ports would usually have no lids, as they are useful for draining excess water, same as on ships of other classes that did not have lids on most of the upper deck ports.

 

Later, circa 1820-30 style would introduce half-ports to brigs, but that's really later, and usually lower halfs.

 

 

And curiously enough they opened up and were, I assume, removable:

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Martes

[mtaylor]

Not always but usually both the upper and lower lids on the half lids  could be removed.  

[3DShipWright]

Thanks guys.

 

A couple minor updates in the meantime:

 

1. Knight's heads started (need to finish the caps, and reposition a couple lines of rigging). They are spaced a bit wide, but that's intentional because I'm modelling them after the style that has a stock that slides in from the top and locks the bowspirt in place.

 

2. Spanker Boom holster is now modelled and in place along the taff rail. Not sure why they opted to go for a double-knocked holster, but I did it precisely per the plans. 

3. I smoothed out the planking near the stern where it curves the most.

[Martes]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:57 PM, 3DShipWright said:

Spanker Boom holster is now modelled and in place along the taff rail. Not sure why they opted to go for a double-knocked holster, but I did it precisely per the plans. 

Convenient to fix a towing cable for example. Or pass two cables in parallel.

 

It's something that usually gets lost now, but operating a sailing ship (and especially sailing warship at the time) reminds this old game more than anything else

 

 

About the gunports.

I meant to say, they should have a cant so you can - potentially - fix the lids there and the lids would not fall into the port.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Martes

[3DShipWright]

Hey Folks,

So I'm almost done with the boats and I'm starting to play around with their general position in relation to the brig.

 

Feedback welcome here:

 

The 31 foot-long boats are rather oversized for this Brig. Thus, they don't fit cleanly behind the aft channels. I'm not willing to redo the boats at the moment - I will eventually do several Launches, Pinnaces, etc. and will swap them out when I do - so in the meantime I have to decide whether to place the davit cranes behind the channels, between the spacing of the main shroud lines (extending beyond the channels), or affix rails atop the main deck... which would mean only one boat unless stacked like Russian nesting dolls... 

 

Any thoughts?

 

[3DShipWright]

Hey Everyone,

I know I'm long overdue for an update post on Rose, so here it is...

 

List of changes:

1.       Mounting brackets securing the dolphin striker to the main bowsprit cap have been added

2.       Dolphin striker color changed to black

3.       Leading edge of the cutwater has been subtlety beveled from Gripe to tip of the bobstay piece, then inboard to the gammoning knee

 

4.       Double jeer blocks added and cathead rigging completed portraying the anchors in a stowed position resting atop the fore cap rails

 

5.       Twin 18-pound bow chasers placed on the gun deck

 

6.       Fore Topgallant bowlines added

7.       Buntlines added to the Fore topsail and belayed to the 4^th & 5^th pins on the fore companion’s pinrails

 

8.       Tacklines have been added and belayed to the bumpkins and to thimbles above the main wale for the fore and main course sails, respectively

9.       Fender blocks added to the outer hull

 

10.   Grates on the main deck redone from scratch, including screws

 

That's all for now - feedback always welcome!

[CDR_Ret]

Beautiful work, Nate!

[Martes]

On 2/1/2023 at 3:31 AM, 3DShipWright said:

which would mean only one boat unless stacked like Russian nesting dolls... 

That would depend on level of readiness, but yes, they did exactly that.

 

 

Plus one boat on the stern davits across the taffrail.

 

Some links for reference.

 

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-84945

 

Or two boats could be carried on the quarter davits if prepared for launch:

 

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-84911

 

And I still think she rides too high in the water. The waterline should be probably around X mark (which is also very anachronistic, as those were introduced somewhere around the beginning of 20th century).

 

But the renders are breathtaking!

 

[Maddog Shipyards]

Good lord the level of detail here is unbelievable. Out of curiosity what is your poly count? You are incredibly talented with blender!

[3DShipWright]

Thank you Maddog!

 

So years ago, one of my 3D mentors once told me, "At the end of the day, there is no substitute for actual geometry."

 

Weighing in at 6,076,131 vertices and 6,085,643 polys, Rose (a fictional brig - named after the original HMS Rose replica, titled HMS Surprise for the Master and Commander film) is proof of that idea. Even so, I think I would amend that to say, "There is no substitute for actual geometry... where it counts."

 

As to figuring out precisely where that is, well, there in lies the rub, as they say.

 

Best,

-Nate

Edited June 13, 2023 by 3DShipWright

[Maddog Shipyards]

Very impressive, I’ve started a new model using some of your techniques! I am going to try to keep the polycount down for real time application. Did you unwrap and texture the model as you went or after the fact? That’s one thing I am terrible at especially considering the types of geometry and just how much there is 😅

[3DShipWright]

@Maddog Shipyards - Excellent question re: UV unwrapping... So I'll give you a few different answers/things to consider.

 

1. The whole 'low-poly' concept for real-time applications (i.e. Unity, Unreal, etc.) is widely misunderstood. Keeping a low poly count is mainly important for models used in particle systems like trees/vegitation, or not letting it get to a crazy-high number in models that are complex by nature such as people and animals. Just FYI - buildings, unless you're re-creating a gothic cathedral, should be easy to keep low. Having said that, there is an argument to be made that a game that takes place on the ocean would need all environment models (i.e. boats and ships) to be low-poly because the ocean itself has to be fairly complex geometry in order to look good. Luckily, there's a very convincing work-around: The trick is to layer 2 ocean modifiers on top of each other. The first is a large scale, low-poly plane that will act as the underlying 'waves' or 'swells'. The second is a small-scale, super high-poly ocean modifier that mimics the ripples. Both are baked into a displacement map, but only the large scale displacement is used to displace geometry while the high poly is simply a bump map. The results look like this, and surprisingly - the entire ocean has far less polys than the ship itself: 
2. The 'professional' 3D workflow used by major studios is modelling -> re-topology -> UV unwrapping/texturing -> 3D rigging (not to be confused with rigging on a ship) -> animation (or baked animations - which Blender calls 'actions' - for use in video games).
3. Professional studios have teams of people whos full-time jobs it is to do a specific step in the above workflow. Ergo, as an individual artist, I actually find it easiest to use this rule of thumb: UV unwrapping/texturing should be done in a way that prevents duplicating work. Therefore, I will hold off at least until I'm satisfied that a particular portion is finished from a modelling perspective. However there are two scerarios where you want to texture earlier in the process. they are:
   1. Things I'm going to reuse multiple times. (Example: anchors, barrels, bollards, cannons, cleats, columns, deadeyes, grates, lanterns, staircases... you get the idea)
   2. Anything that requires an array modifier. (Example: chain links and rope segments... plus maybe a couple little things I'm missing)

Hope this helps,

-Nate

Edited June 17, 2023 by 3DShipWright

[3DShipWright]

@Martes - So I'm revisiting Rose a bit this morning... gotta say, thanks to yourself and others on this forum, my nautical/historical understanding has come a long way since I started this project. For example, you once asked me what the rectangular linen boxes were inside the hammock cranes as hammocks were packed into cylindrical containers...

 

I now have the correct answer:

The USS Brig Niagara, like the USS Constitution, is an operational to this day, but unlike the constitution, Niagara offers day trips to the public. Thus, she is subject to the laws of the USS Coast Guard. So, in an effort to preserve the historical feel, adult lifejackets are stored in the hammock cranes in sacks that mimic the linen of the time... A nice touch by the Pennsylvania Historical Society, if you ask me. I am still removing them from the final model, but just thought I'd share

[3DShipWright]

Hey Everyone,

 

I will be posting a major update to Rose shortly, hopefully one of the 2 or 3 final updates before I can stamp the word 'FINISHED' on the thread. That said, as I can't put Rose on a shelf in my bedroom or home office, I'd envisioned doing a series of epic renders with her, rife with special effects and postprocessing... which brings me to my question for the community:

 

Would any 3D Artist out there be interested in doing a compilation collaboration - gotta love the alliteration - with me on a naval battle, perhaps; effectively a modern take on those classical maritime paintings I'd venture to say we all love?

 

It will be a while, granted, but I wanted to put a feeler out there to see if anyone else would be interested...

 

Thx,

-Nate

[Martes]

2 hours ago, 3DShipWright said:

adult lifejackets are stored in the hammock cranes in sacks that mimic the linen of the time...

It is indeed a nice touch

 

It does, however, add to the list of anachronistic features that could not have been present at the end of 18th century, like the netting around the guns and the dockyard support rings.

 

As I wrote sometimes ago, the waterline should be higher. It does depend on the stage of the cruise, of course, but the ship does ride too high both to be stable and to have sufficient weapons and supplies on board in your representation. It is not unknown that empty water casks would be filled with seawater to preserve the trim of the ship in some cases. It should be somewhere around XI mark forward. The coppering may reach the waterline, or be a little bit lower.

 

And the gunports and oar ports. While they are usually left open, it should technically be possible to safely shut them with board lids, and for that they need to have sills, like a door:

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Martes

[3DShipWright]

@Martes - Yep, agree with everything you just said, a couple things:

 

The height of the copper plating isn't really something I can fix at this point sadly. I mean - I could of course, but it's unnecessary work given my final renders will have the ship in water. I hate to use that as an excuse, but technically speaking, Rose is already rife with problems, so I want to spend more of the remaining time on this project honing my lighting, compositing, and visual effects abilities. I have, however, sunk her down to the appropriate level in final renders.

 

2. The rings will be removed. When I previously said I saw these on historical plans, I now believe I was confusing modern-era dry-dock mounts with 18th century deck scuppers, which wouldn't be at that level on a small brig, if at all.

 

3. Finally, I will be replacing the union jack with a real Royal Navy flag from the time. The challenge is finding or color grading a texture to match the sail cloth material. Again, I can do this, but I want to finish up the rigging 1st.

 

-Nate

Edited June 17, 2023 by 3DShipWright

[gsdpic]

This is just jaw-dropping.  I recently downloaded blender and just started learning it.  Still very much in the phase of making simple cubes or spheres and learning how to view them and move them.  I cannot imagine the time taken to learn blender well enough to create a model like this, let alone the time to actually create the model.  I guess it brings to mind the old joke...how do you eat an elephant?  One bite at a time.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Martes]

4 hours ago, 3DShipWright said:

The height of the copper plating isn't really something I can fix at this point sadly. I mean - I could of course, but it's unnecessary work given my final renders will have the ship in water.

Yes, just submerge her to X or XI, and it will look all right.

 

By the way, get rid of those marks as well, they were invented late 19-th century and weren't nearly present in the age of sail.

[CDR_Ret]

Is there a simple way to add realistic crew in these renders? The main thing that indicates your image is artificial is the absence of any hands visible on deck, or at least at the wheel. Galilee had only eight assigned crewmembers (plus the five scientific expedition members), and all the photos of the ship at sea always had at least a few humans visible topside.

 

Terry

[Shellie]

I have a project that I would love to discuss with you. Can you please email me at Shellie@OurGeneticLegacy.org? I hope to hear from you soon.