Andy P2 Posted December 27, 2022 Share #1 Posted December 27, 2022 Well, here we go... It appears that the first order of business is going to be shaping all of the frames so as to be symmetrical and form the smooth lines needed for the overall build. That could take a while, so you may not be hearing from me for a bit. I don't think that I will leave any exposed after planking, as there is no subdeck or other internals included in the kit, and I like the look of the finished craft. Other decisions that will come (much) later include: Sails or not? Coppering the hull or not? Lifeboat or not? Whatever the answers, this looks like a fun journey. Happy New Year! Andy BobG, Knocklouder, Prowler901 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted December 27, 2022 Author Share #2 Posted December 27, 2022 Oops...That should be 1851 in the title, not 1951...Perhaps the moderators could make that change...Sorry 'bout that... mtaylor and Ryland Craze 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knocklouder Posted December 28, 2022 Share #3 Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) Hey Andy you can do it, go to your Frist post 3 little buttons click on there edit change the date then save. Do not delete lol hope it helps. Edited December 28, 2022 by Knocklouder Yep typos 😒 mtaylor 1 Quote Start so you can Finish !! Finished: The Sea of Galilee Boat-Scott Miller-1:20 , Amati } Hannah Ship in a Bottle:Santa Maria : LA Pinta : La Nana : The Mayflower : Viking Ship Drakkar The King Of the Mississippi Artesania Latina 1:80 Current Build: Royal Yacht, Duchess of Kingston-Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share #4 Posted December 28, 2022 Thank you, Knocklouder! I had to look up the Speedwell that you mention. Seems pretty ambitious with very limited information. I'm guessing that you have been doing a bit of research. Good luck with that endeavor and all of the other projects that you have listed! Andy Ryland Craze and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knocklouder Posted December 28, 2022 Share #5 Posted December 28, 2022 Glad it helped, as far as the Speedwell go's its a pipe dream, by the time I finish all that I have to do they will be sold out lol .Have fun building mtaylor and Ryland Craze 2 Quote Start so you can Finish !! Finished: The Sea of Galilee Boat-Scott Miller-1:20 , Amati } Hannah Ship in a Bottle:Santa Maria : LA Pinta : La Nana : The Mayflower : Viking Ship Drakkar The King Of the Mississippi Artesania Latina 1:80 Current Build: Royal Yacht, Duchess of Kingston-Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 28, 2022 Share #6 Posted December 28, 2022 I moved this to appropriate area for kit build logs. Knocklouder 1 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share #7 Posted December 28, 2022 Good Afternoon all! Just getting started now. I cleaned up the rough edges (feathers?) from the saw marks on the frames, measured and marked the center lines on each and am now going to start shaping each one. Unless someone has a better method, I thought that I would use the recommendations from Bluejacket that came with the kit: "A NOTE ON THE HULL FRAMES". (I don't see any copyright symbols on this, so I assume that it's OK to post.) They recommend determining which side of the frame is the narrowest, or farthest from the center line. Using cardstock, make a template of that side and transfer to the wider side, then remove the excess. There are likely some other irregularities than will have to be trimmed as well. I welcome any and all suggestions. Thank you, Andy Ryland Craze, Knocklouder, Jorge Hedges and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted December 30, 2022 Author Share #8 Posted December 30, 2022 Happy New Year's Eve Eve! Truing up the frames. I've modified the Bluejacket recommendation somewhat. You old hands will probably laugh at me, but here goes... I trace an outline of the frame onto graph paper, then measuring from the center line, see if either side is significantly outside of the other. If so, I remove the offending wood until the outermost portions of both port and starboard are equidistant from the center line. I then make a template of the whole frame from card stock. Larger index cards (6X8) work well for this, as the lines help with placement. After cutting out the template, I flip it over and place against the frame. Irregularities show up with wood protruding from the template on one side and the card sticking out on the opposite side. Remove the offending wood, narrow the bottom a little to meet the keel and we have a preliminary shaping of the frame. I don't think that I will do the inner surface of each frame, as I have decided not to leave any of the interior exposed. Glad that I have a Dremel tool! Andy Knocklouder, BobG and gsdpic 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdpic Posted January 1, 2023 Share #9 Posted January 1, 2023 Happy New Year! Glad to see another Bluejacket America build here. I'll follow along to see how it goes. Looks like you are off to a good start. The "cut out the template and flip it over" is basically the analog version of what I did with the scanner and flipping over the image in photoshop as described in my build log. As for the inner surfaces of the frames....you might want to do at least a little work there. The bilge clamps and sheer clamps run along the inside of the frames and provide a lot of strength to the hull while fairing and planking. Having the inner surfaces smooth and fair may help with attaching the clamps to every frame which should help avoid accidental breakage of the frames. mtaylor and Knocklouder 2 Quote - Gary Current Build: Artesania Latina Sopwith Camel Completed Builds: Blue Jacket America 1/48th Annapolis Wherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share #10 Posted January 9, 2023 Taking a short break (albeit early on) in order to build a display case for the Flying Cloud. Since the base is so big (16" X 45"), I am going to put legs on it and make it freestanding. Back to the America in a couple of weeks. Happy New Year! Knocklouder, Prowler901 and Jorge Hedges 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted January 21, 2023 Author Share #11 Posted January 21, 2023 Sooooo... Rough shaping of frames completed. Took Gary's advice and did some work on the inside of each. I'm sure that there will be a good bit of tweaking later. Starting to cut the slots in the keel to accept the frames. Much to my chagrin, I discovered (the hard way) that the thickness of the frames is not consistent. So I am having to measure each with a caliper before cutting. And here I thought that this project might be done in less than a year... BTW... Display case for Flying Cloud nearly complete. A woodworking friend is making the legs and rails under the table. Have a good weekend! Andy Prowler901, BobG, ccoyle and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share #12 Posted January 28, 2023 Back from a week at Walt Disney World in Florida. During that time, my Keel Klamper arrived. Many thanks to Gary for recommending this handy little stand. Prior to this, I would do things like cut out cardboard boxes to hold the ship in an even and workable position. This will make things so much easier! Okay, I will sign out for a while to make some real progress, then get back with something tangible. In the meantime, Happy Groundhog's Day! Andy Prowler901, schooner, ccoyle and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share #13 Posted February 2, 2023 First "dry" fitting of frames. Not glued in place yet, so still a little crooked. I really like Gary's jig for the final truing of the frames for gluing in place. Do you mind if I copy it, or at least do something similar? You must be an Engineer. Next up, the rabbet and timberheads...I'll be back... And I am very thankful for my Dremel tool... just sayin' BobG, Gregory, dvm27 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdpic Posted February 3, 2023 Share #14 Posted February 3, 2023 Looking good, Andy. Feel free to use anything you see in my build log. But be advised, I am a software guy, not a real engineer Knocklouder 1 Quote - Gary Current Build: Artesania Latina Sopwith Camel Completed Builds: Blue Jacket America 1/48th Annapolis Wherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share #15 Posted February 10, 2023 Good Afternoon All! I'm looking for advice/opinions on what may very well be a minor point. In cutting the timberheads, the plans seem to show that the aft most eight frames ( numbers 25-32 in my kit) have a progressive position from the inside of the frame to the outside. That is number 32 is on the inside surface of the frame and numbers 25 and lower are all on the outside of the frame while 31-26 are progressively more to the outside as you move forward. Am I reading that correctly? Or should 25-32 all be on the inside surface with 1-24 on the outside? Picture below. Thank you, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdpic Posted February 11, 2023 Share #16 Posted February 11, 2023 Hi Andy.....I suspect I know why you are asking this question. The timberheads on the last few frames supplied in my kit (and I suspect your as well) were not very progressive. The indentation on frame 26ish was almost as great as that on the last frame. I attempted to make it follow the plan a bit more and make them more progressive, though probably could have done even more than I did, as I ended up putting a bit of a "kink" in the cap rail at that point instead of allowing a completely smooth curve. I bought a used copy online of the book "The Low Black Schooner" by John Rousmaniere, referenced in one of the other America build logs on MSW. It has quite a few contemporary paintings and a few early photographs from a few decades later. It is often hard to pick up small details in the paintings and often the details differ wildly, but I don't think any of them show any sort of sudden indentation in that area, they all indicate a more smooth curve. So, I'd vote for making it a more gradual transition. Knocklouder 1 Quote - Gary Current Build: Artesania Latina Sopwith Camel Completed Builds: Blue Jacket America 1/48th Annapolis Wherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share #17 Posted February 11, 2023 Thank you Gary! As one who has built this already, you are probably best qualified to answer this question. Your comment about the cap rail is informative and perhaps the best indication that it should be progressive and a smooth curve. So, onward to more timberheads and further fairing of the frames.... Andy PS...I see that you are building a Sopwith Camel. I did a balsa and tissue Sopwith Camel (Guillows?) back in the early 80's. It still hangs in my basement near my workbench. gsdpic and Knocklouder 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlueJacket Posted February 13, 2023 Share #18 Posted February 13, 2023 The aft end of America has a"shelf" outside the timberheads that fades to nothing around frame#25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share #19 Posted February 14, 2023 Thank you, MrBluejacket! I am cutting the timberheads accordingly. An interesting side note: I am fairing the frames again. I found that the aft frames were significantly wider than the plans show, sometimes by around 3/16" or so on both sides. Moving forward, they became about the same size as the plans. After the break, they are becoming slightly narrower than the plans show. I'm on number 12 and it's about 1/16" on each side or about 1/8" overall narrower than the plans. I'm just going to go with it to the stem and not try to build anything up. I don't think that it will be noticeable in the end. Oh, and I'm taking Gary's advice on fairing the inner surface of the frames. Making them all a consistent 10 mm width. Sorry for mixing metric and English measurements. BobG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share #20 Posted February 21, 2023 Another dry fit of the frames after rabbet and timberheads cut. Obviously not glued in place yet. Still needs a little more fairing and trimming some of the timberheads. Also build a jig for helping to mount the frames when time for final gluing. In this picture, the keel is lying flat, but I am assuming that the frames need to be perpendicular to the waterline, so will have to adjust the angle when it's time to glue. Knocklouder, schooner, BobG and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted March 10, 2023 Author Share #21 Posted March 10, 2023 Gluing the frames now. Kind of a slow process. The keel holder is two 3/4" square wood strips on a 1X6. The jig is similar to the one Gary used, with two vertical pieces that slide on the 1X6 that hold the face perpendicular to the keel. Graph paper on the front allows for measuring the symmetry of the two sides when gluing. From the looks of things, I may need to do yet a little more fairing and trimming before planking the outside. Nothing major, but I can see some irregularities. Oh, and the completed display case for the Flying Cloud. I need to get a name plate made, as I wasn't satisfied with the one that came with the kit...too gaudy. I'd like something a bit more subtle. Going off on vacation for a bit. Back next month sometime. BobG, gsdpic, ERS Rich and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share #22 Posted March 11, 2023 Thanks, BobG! Now my wife and I are discussing the nature of the display case for the Robert E. Lee... BobG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted March 24, 2023 Author Share #23 Posted March 24, 2023 Back from vacation. Pretty major setback. After having glued all of the frames, I pulled the entire structure out and found that the aft frames were all off center from the keel. Not clear how that happened. I guess that the jig that I built wasn't quite right. So, I have currently removed frames 17-32 and am going to re-center and glue. Preliminary inspection of the forward frames looks encouraging. Hopefully those will be OK and we can move on to the keelson and bilge clamps. More later... Knocklouder, Fishooks and ERS Rich 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P2 Posted January 29 Author Share #24 Posted January 29 Hey All! Been a long time...almost a year. A year filled with a lot of travel, family and health issues that kept me from the America. But no trips in sight until April, and cold weather keeping me off the golf course; time to start working on the model again. As noted before, I made mistakes when setting the frames. I also found that I misread the plans on the frames at the stern, so the heights are not perfect to align with the transom. Hopefully I can fix this as we go along. Working on the deck beams. I am fortunate to have a friend who has an extensive woodworking shop. He has a very precise bandsaw that I was able to take advantage of. So I ended up with a whole bunch of extra beams. I mad a mistake in reading the plans. Most of the deck beams are shown as aligning with the back of the frames. But there are some that sdo not. So I suddenly found that my spacing was off and I had to redo a section. Also, since a couple of my frames are not perfectly perpendicular to the keel, a couple of the beams are a little crooked. Hopefully I will be able to smooth all of this out before starting the waterways and planking. I would be remiss if I didn't give a big shoutout to Gary (build 15910) for the heads up on setting the mast steps at this stage instead of later. I plan to fully plank this project and it would have been very difficult to set them later. Obviously, I still have some work to do before planking. But it's good to be back working on it again. Hoping that I haven't made any fatal errors. Now a couple of pictures... Snug Harbor Johnny, gsdpic, allanyed and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdpic Posted January 29 Share #25 Posted January 29 Glad to see you back at work on this, it is looking good! Quote - Gary Current Build: Artesania Latina Sopwith Camel Completed Builds: Blue Jacket America 1/48th Annapolis Wherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick310 Posted January 30 Share #26 Posted January 30 Looking good!! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterlingclements Posted February 7 Share #27 Posted February 7 Looking good! I had some of the same frame struggles with my America build. Used some good tips from Gary's build log, but used a different jig. See my build log if interested. I am back to planking now after taking significant time off. Life happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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