captain cook Posted January 1, 2023 Share #1 Posted January 1, 2023 Hi All, Please be patient with me ,first time posting. I often sit and drool over model ships and cannons. Can somebody tell me how wide internally the room /cabin below would have been ? and the support where the officer is having his drink topped up ,do i presume there was another one further to the right. what i would love to find out is how big the actual area is ,and do i presume there was a partitioning wall further to the left .full cabin size and where the supports would have been and how many ? I hope this makes sense ? many thanks Mark. Keith Black, bruce d and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevinne Posted January 1, 2023 Share #2 Posted January 1, 2023 This might help. I'm assuming the painting is aboard HMS Victory on the night before Trafalgar. Wikipedia says Victory had a beam of 51ft, so likely sort of close to that. mtaylor, Keith Black and barkeater 3 Quote Under construction: Mamoli Roter Lowe Completed builds: Constructo Enterprise, AL Le Renard Up next: Panart Lynx, MS Harriet Lane In need of attention: 14-foot Pintail in the driveway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain cook Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share #3 Posted January 1, 2023 Hi, Thanks for the info, but it's aboard hms elephant the night before The battle of Copenhagen. mtaylor and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted January 1, 2023 Share #4 Posted January 1, 2023 Mark, welcome to MSW. Glad to have you aboard. The Elephant had a beam of 46 feet nine, the HMS Vanguard was also a 74 gun third rate ship had a beam of 46 feet ten. You could check out HMS Vanguard kits and her plans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Elephant_(1786) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_(1787) mtaylor and captain cook 2 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted January 1, 2023 Share #5 Posted January 1, 2023 Headroom would probably have been lower than in the painting! Keith Black, mtaylor, hollowneck and 1 other 4 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted January 1, 2023 Share #6 Posted January 1, 2023 Off original plans it measures approximately 27 feet wide in this cabin. Head clearance under the beam is approximately 5 feet. captain cook, Keith Black, druxey and 2 others 5 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted January 1, 2023 Share #7 Posted January 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, AON said: ff original plans it measures approximately 27 feet wide in this cabin. Head clearance under the beam is approximately 5 feet. Alan, do the plans show the supporting columns and their location? That was another of Mark's questions. mtaylor and captain cook 2 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted January 1, 2023 Share #8 Posted January 1, 2023 Welcome to MSW If you research Elephant 1786 at the RMG Collections site, there are a dozen low resolution contemporary plans including deck plans and inboard profile that you can use to get exact dimensions in all three axes. There is also a full set of high resolution drawings of 74's from the same period at the Wiki Commons site which includes Hannibal 1786, Venerable 1784, Victorious 1785, and Theseus 1786. Allan druxey, Keith Black, captain cook and 1 other 4 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted January 1, 2023 Share #9 Posted January 1, 2023 6 hours ago, captain cook said: do i presume there was a partitioning wall further to the left The openings at port and starboard aft are to the quarter galleries. They were small and mostly were officers' latrines. Where the captain's cabin was the width of a whole deck, I wonder why he would need two privies? captain cook, mtaylor and Keith Black 3 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted January 1, 2023 Share #10 Posted January 1, 2023 Privy was usually only to one side - the port side on Victory. hollowneck, captain cook, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted January 1, 2023 Share #11 Posted January 1, 2023 captain cook and Keith Black 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted January 2, 2023 Share #12 Posted January 2, 2023 Good morning. I have the plans of both the Elephant aand Goliath. I don't recall seeing the location of the columns shown but will look again after breakfast. I believe the quarter galleries were used by all the officers... on both sides. druxey, Keith Black, bruce d and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted January 2, 2023 Share #13 Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) No it does not. I had to clean up the resolution to see the marks were numbers and not columns! This is part of the Elephant deck plan. Edited January 2, 2023 by AON Keith Black, mtaylor, hollowneck and 4 others 6 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain cook Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share #14 Posted January 2, 2023 So no columns ? Thankyou for looking Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain cook Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share #15 Posted January 2, 2023 Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain cook Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share #16 Posted January 2, 2023 Both pictures supposedly HMS elephant ? at copenhagen Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted January 2, 2023 Share #17 Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) I thought you might find the below transcription of the original contract for the Elephant 1786 which was originally written in 1781 and which has the as-built scantlings that were added to the contract at time of her launching. Let me if it this doc file opens OK for you. If it does not, please feel free to PM me with your email address (mine is in my profile) and I can email it as an attachment as a doc or pdf Allan CONTRACT Elephant 74 gun 1781.docx Edited January 2, 2023 by allanyed mtaylor, bruce d and Keith Black 3 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted January 2, 2023 Share #18 Posted January 2, 2023 Be aware that most paintings were by artists who were probably never on board, particularly during battle. Furniture of any kind was stowed below in action; the less sources for splinters, the better. Officers and captain would have been above on the quarter deck, not sitting comfortably at a table with a tablecloth, yet! mtaylor, allanyed, Keith Black and 1 other 2 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain cook Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share #19 Posted January 3, 2023 yes, i'm well aware of the fantasy of these paintings ! Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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