Small Boats: 18 foot Cutter, Jolly Boat, Captain's Gig

[AON]

Could someone please explain the difference between a Jolly Boat, a Captain's Gig and the shorter cutters.

 

I understand a Jolly boat was 18 feet long or less and was used to transport people from ship to shore or ship to ship.

I understand this is the same description of an 18 foot long cutter

Are the then the same thing?

 

What about the Captain's Gig?

[Roger Pellett]

Ships boats can be categorized in two ways; by design and by function.

 

 A cutter is a boat of specific design; lines finer than a Launch but not as fine as a pinnace, designed to both row and sail well, and usually equipped with a wash strake for additional freeboard.

 

A jolly boat is a small cutter.

 

A gig is a boat intended to serve a particular function; transporting the ship’s captain.  It’s design could vary.  It could be a cutter or any other easily rowed boat like a pinnace.  Its finish is usually fancier than other ships boats.

 

Likewise, the term “Barge” refers to function, not design.  Barges are the designated boats for Flag Officers.

 

Roger

[iMustBeCrazy]

Jolly boat is more a nickname than a description, the smallest boat on the ship and usually a cutter. But there will be exceptions

 

[Mark P]

In early records, late Elizabethan, or early Stuart, the jolly boat is generally referred to as a 'jolly-watt'. Don't ask me why! 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[allanyed]

There is no doubt that the term jolly boat refers to the smallest of the ships' boats and whether they were cutters or some other design seems to always be up for debate.   Looking at books by Lavery and May they both refer to jolly boats.  May gives scantlings for all types of boats for 1705 and 1800 but nowhere is there a jolly boat listed with scantlings.   Lavery goes into some detail about what they were on page 223 of The Aming and Fitting of English Ships of War. He writes that jolly boats appeared to be cutters of 16 to 18 feet and one authority said that four oared cutters were called jolly boats.    In doing a little digging  I found the following drawing called Seamen Painting a Jolly Boat  by Lt. Gabriel Bray of the Pallas which he did in 1774.  It looks like a four oared cutter to me but I may be dead wrong. 

Allan

[Roger Pellett]

Allan,  That certainly looks like a small cutter.  This sort of documentation is really useful as it often shows details not shown on Admiralty draughts.  The forward mast step is interesting.

 

Another poorly defined boat that could also be called a Jolly boat is the yawl.

 

I also suspect that back in the day seamen could identify these boat types using their seaman’s eye to identify hull subtle shapes not apparent to us today, eg. the difference between a yawl and a cutter.

Roger

Edited January 13, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[allanyed]

Roger,

Sometimes the research is as much, or sometimes, more fun than the build when something like this pops up with the little details like the forward step that you mentioned.

Allan

Edited January 13, 2023 by allanyed

[iMustBeCrazy]

7 hours ago, allanyed said:

I found the following drawing called Seamen Painting a Jolly Boat  by Lt. Gabriel Bray of the Pallas which he did in 1774.  It looks like a four oared cutter to me but I may be dead wrong.

Allan, I don't think you're wrong. However there are a few strange things in the drawing. First off I think it should be titled Boys Painting a Jolly Boat given their height, second, there are two row locks missing and it probably should be single banked, third, do I see provision for three masts?

But it was actually a very good fit when I overlaid my 16ft Cutter:

 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/33083-16ft-cutter-by-imustbecrazy-finished-small-116-bountys-small-cutter-jolly-boat/page/2/#comment-950515

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by iMustBeCrazy

[Roger Pellett]

If by the third mast step you mean what could be a hole in the sternsheets, I assumed that this was a ringbolt.

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

If by the third mast step you mean what could be a hole in the sternsheets, I assumed that this was a ringbolt.

No, it's pretty much this rig. I think the odd one out is the main thwart.

[mtaylor]

16 hours ago, Mark P said:

In early records, late Elizabethan, or early Stuart, the jolly boat is generally referred to as a 'jolly-watt'. Don't ask me why! 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

From Wikipedia... maybe this will help.

Origins[edit]

The term 'jolly boat' has several potential origins. It may originate in the Dutch or Swedish jolle, a term meaning a small bark or boat.[1] Other possibilities include the English term yawl, or the 'gelle-watte', the latter being a term in use in the 16th century to refer to the boat used by the captain for trips to and from shore.[1][2] According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term appears in Chamber's Encyclopedia between 1727 and 1741. It is called simply 'jolly' in the early 19th century novels of Frederick Marryat. The word may have been in use considerably earlier, as the record of the voyages of Francis Drake and John Hawkins has 'That day the Pegasus jolly was going on shore for water, carying no guarde. The Spaniards perceiving it came downe upon them.'[3]

[Roger Pellett]

Craig,  maybe it’s the rig that you posted but that drawing is 110+ years later than the one that Allan posted.

 

Roger

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

maybe it’s the rig that you posted but that drawing is 110+ years later than the one that Allan posted.

Roger, when you add the 'hole' in the seat with the hole in the transom it really looks like it.

 

Oops, just found this one, same artist same time same rig.

[allanyed]

At the time Bray was on the Pallas (36) in 1774,  IF she prescribed to the 1745 Establishment for a 36 gun frigate she would have carried three boats, 23 foot longboat, 30 foot pinnnace, and 24 foot yawl.  (W.E. May, The Boats of Men of War, p.56)  Are the boats in the two drawings by Lt. Bray the same boat and are they the yawl or the longboat?   Anyway, I think this is going off track, albeit very interesting, and hopefully gave the info Alan needed to start with.

Allan

[druxey]

Allan; you are assuming that Bray's lovely illustration is of a boat belonging to Pallas. I interpret that as a boat ashore that he saw, not one of his ship's boats.

[Roger Pellett]

This is like the famous “Four Blind Men and the Elephant!”  Different ways to interpret the same information.

 

Roger

[AON]

Thank to all, and yes it did seem to take a wee fork in the road but enjoyable none the less.

I have been peeking in but have be otherwise occupied over the last few days to be able to comment.

The first few posts put some light on the subject.

 

I've found that Wolfram zu Mondfeld wrote in his book Historic Ship Models, pg.192:

The cutter - A clinker built general purpose boat with up to 12 oars and fitted for sailing - introduced in the latter part of the 18th century. The carvel built yawl of 4 to 6 oars was the smallest ship's boat on board until the late 18th century, when it was superseded by a small 18ft cutter pulling 4 oars, known colloquially as a "jolly boat".

The gig - A long narrow, fast boat for personnel transport with 6 to 8 oars. The gig was used for carrying the Captain and usually his private property. With its introduction in the late 18th century the gig took over part of the duties of a pinnace or barge. Only one gig was normally carried.

The images on the following page 193 show the gig to be single banked and the cutter double banked.

 

In Ship Modeling From Stem to Stern by Milton Roth, page 136 -137:

The smallest carried aboard was the dinghy or jolly boat, ranging in size from 12 to 16 feet. By contrast, the largest was the longboat or launch.

The Longboat Launch (first time I've seen longboat and launch together so I guess that answers another question, or does it?) was 20 to 50 ft long, double banked

The Yawl Barge was 24 to 35 ft long with 8 to 16 oars, single or double banked (which in profile on page 140 looks like a shorter launch, but per the description the lengths overlap so were they  the same thing up to 35 ft? This was a Yawl Barge, what about the Yawl and the Barge?)

The Pinnace Cutter was 20 to 50 ft long with 8 to 16 oars, double banked and was the second largest service boat.

(so was the Pinnace a Cutter, apparently not according to W.E. May in his book The Boats of Men of War as they are listed separately. Also, the pinnace was carvel planked and the cutter clinker planked... )

The Dinghy Jolly Boat was 12 to 16 ft with 2 oars, single banked (virtually a small boat rowed by one man... like when I go fishing. I read "jolly" as a fun little boat.)

 

I find it all very confusing as most overlap in length, number of oars, and even dual use of names... and then different sources don't seem to agree.

I imagine the deciding factor might the end use assigned to the design.

Where might that be listed?

 

I hope this helps people understand my confusion.

Edited January 14, 2023 by AON

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, AON said:

I find it all very confusing as most overlap in length, number of oars, and even dual use of names... and then different sources don't seem to agree.

You are not alone. It's a very confusing subject.

 

1 hour ago, AON said:

I imagine the deciding factor might the end use assigned to the design.

Sort of. I think.

 

1 hour ago, AON said:

Where might that be listed?

It won't be.

 

Many of the descriptions you read are authors opinions stated as fact, even though there is often evidence to the contrary. Eg. there are contemporary sketches of six oared jolly boats.

Function would have varied depending on the size of the ship and probably the Captains disposition.

 

And as always, There will be exceptions.

 

Fincham (ca1820) gives us this description. It's certainly not 100% correct but it's a start.

 

The principal boats for attending upon ships are: launches, long boats, barges, pinnaces, cutters, yawls, jolly boats, life boats, and gigs or galleys.

 

The launches, long boats, barges, pinnaces, and yawls, are carvel-built; and cutters, jolly boats, galleys, gigs, and life boats, are clincher-built.

 

Launches are in general from 34 to 59 feet in length. They are for watering and carrying stores to the ship, and are sometimes armed and equipped for cruising
at short distances; they are mostly fitted to carry one twelve-pounder carronnade, and sometimes fitted with swivel stocks.

 

Long Boats are seldom or never employed for the use of British ships of war; they are sharper and wider than launches.

 

Barges are generally 32 and 35 feet in length. These boats are for accommodation, pincipally for carrying flag officers and captains; and are lined and panelled above
the thwarts, all fore and aft, that they may be richly decorated, if required.

 

Pinnaces are 28 and 32 feet in length. These boats are for similar purposes as the barges, but to carry officers of less rank; they are not therefore fitted up in quite so
neat a style, as they are lined and panelled no farther foward tnan the stern sheets.

 

Yawls are in length 26, 25, 18, and 16 feet. These boats are for carrying light stores, provision, and passengers, to and from the ship. To the smaller class of ships,they answer all the purposes of a launch.

 

Cutters, Jolly Boats, Galleys, Gigs, and life Boats are clincher-built, that they may be made as light as possible.

 

Cutters are in length from 32 to 16 feet; they are used for various purposes that are common to ship's duty, though sometimes 32 foot cutters are supplied to ships instead of a barge,

and used for the same purposes; and sometimes the shorter boats are called and used as jolly boats.

 

Galleys are from 28 to 36 feet in length; they are used in enterprises and expeditions against the enemy, and against illegal trade.

 

Gigs are in length from 16 to 27 feet; they are for swift rowing, and are supplied to ships when light boats are required.

 

Life Boats are from 16 to 22 feet in length; they are for landing in surfs, performing enterprises and boarding ships, and for saving men that fall overboard,

[AON]

That certainly shines a much brighter light on things.

Thank you.

[Roger Pellett]

Fincham’s descriptions should be viewed as an individual point in time Data  point rather than an all encompassing description. For example:

 

Longboats rather than launches were used by the Royal Navy for the better part of the Eighteenth Century;  prior to Fincham.

 

According to May (The Boats of Men of War) clinker, ie. lapstrake boats were not favored by forces afloat as they were difficult to repair.  There were carvel built cutters.  In fact by 1900 the US Navy standard drawings show only carvel construction.

 

Roger

[AON]

That is very interesting.

 

The Royal Navy BR67 - Manual of Seamanship 1937 reprinted for the Royal Canadian Navy in 1942 lists four types of construction:

1. Clinker built   2. Carvel built   3. Diagonal built   4. Sewn boats

 

Clinker built boats existed well into the 1970's until replaced by the new Fiberglas hulls.

We had one, a cutter built for us (local sea cadets) in the 1920's and they were at the reserve base boat shed at HMCS Star and summer training camp HMCS Quadra in the 1970's.

 

My interest is with the Royal Navy of 1790-1800.

[wefalck]

It all boils down to period and nation ... from around the middle of the 19th century on it seems that navies pretty much standardised their boats and the terminology. In each class of boats there may have been two or three different sizes, i.e. lengths. The standardisation made it easier to contract out their building and getting exactly what was required to fit onto the ships e.g. with respect to the distance of davits.

 

Between the last quarter of the 19th century and the end of WWI both, the German and the Austrian navies used all three types of construction: clinker, carvel and diagonal-carvel. All three building methods have their respective merits. Larger boats typically were either carvel or diagonal-carvel. Clinker building makes for a heavier, but more sturdy boat.

 

I gather one can discuss for weeks the etymology and use of the different terminologies ...

 

 

[Roger Pellett]

I guess that we can all exclude sewn boats.😀

[AON]

I'm surprised no one asked what the heck that means.

[wefalck]

I wouldn't have asked, as I am quite familiar with this techniqe from indigenous craft in Arabia, East Africa, the Pazific and various other regions around the world. It often apears in regions, where good pieces of wood are scarce. Here a boat from Niutao (Ellice Islands) built around 1960 and now preserved in the Ethnological Museum in Berlin:

One could also talk about skin-boats and I don't mean the kajaks of Greenland and Canada or the curraghs and corracles of the British isles. On some naval craft, such as torpedoboats, (deck-)space was at prime and hence foldable dinghies were used. 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by wefalck