HMS Winchelsea 1764 by Wxchsr - 1:48

[Wxchsr]

Getting this started for documenting my Winchelsea build.  Thank you to Chuck for creating these fantastic plans and kits.  It's been 25-30 years since I've last done a build and I'm looking forward to starting this one, which will be my third.  I'm still in the beginning phases of the build and will post some photos soon.  I plan to fully rig the ship in the end, and will probably have to tweak a few things as part of that, but I suppose that happens on most builds anyways!

[James G]

Great to see your build log starting! I’m about at the same place you are. Just finished cutting out my bulkheads. Good luck!

[Wxchsr]

51 minutes ago, James G said:

Great to see your build log starting! I’m about at the same place you are. Just finished cutting out my bulkheads. Good luck!

 To you as well!

 

[Wxchsr]

A couple to get started.  The bulkhead former has a little rougher edges than the actual bulkheads.  Same plywood, but The former was cut with a standard jigsaw with a fine blade, but still splintered.  The bulkheads (and everything after) was done with a scrolls, much finer (didn't have it when I started).  

 

Knee assembly attached to the bulkhead former.  This was made from scratch.  Not perfect by any means but I'm pretty happy with the results.  The knee and keel is made from a "mystery" hardwood.  It's parts from an old "maple" table that I had, but I'm not convinced it's actual maple.  The strips I cut (not yet sanded) were from a known source, and are actually maple.  

[glbarlow]

Nice start.  I can’t overemphasize enough how important getting the skeleton infrastructure exact to the plans. So much later from port location, quarter galleries and stern depend on it being solid and accurate. You’ll see on many build logs, including mine cutting out elements from the plans and using them as guides. 

 

[Wxchsr]

2 hours ago, glbarlow said:

Nice start.  I can’t overemphasize enough how important getting the skeleton infrastructure exact to the plans. So much later from port location, quarter galleries and stern depend on it being solid and accurate. You’ll see on many build logs, including mine cutting out elements from the plans and using them as guides. 

 

Thanks Glen!  That's exactly what I did/am doing too.  I glued everything directly to the plywood, cut close to the lines, then went the rest of the way with my bench sander to get it as exact as possible.  A couple of the stem pieces I think I cut out and remanded about 5 times after sanding just a little too much : ).  Those printouts are fantastic guides!

 

[glbarlow]

The stern frames, the port sills, transition from stern post to counter, and the gallery framing are the ones I was most referring to, those are still ahead of you.  

 

Sounds like you're on great track, glad you're enjoying the project from the start.  Lots of fun awaits.

[Wxchsr]

3 hours ago, glbarlow said:

The stern frames, the port sills, transition from stern post to counter, and the gallery framing are the ones I was most referring to, those are still ahead of you.  

 

Sounds like you're on great track, glad you're enjoying the project from the start.  Lots of fun awaits.

 

AH...Noted.  I'm going to go highlight those in the manual before advancing.  Not that I don't want to be precise on everything, but some things, as you noted, may be imperative.  Thank you for that info!

[Wxchsr]

After I had the knee, keel and false keel installed, I wasn’t happy with the knee. I had to alter the bottom too much so it was far smaller than it should have been (over sanded), thus the joint between that and the first keel piece looked ok, but not spec. I also sanded the false keep too thin. It was a good practice run   I removed all three of those components, and luckily the rabbet stayed in place. I spent yesterday and today redoing them and am much happier with the result!  I have to slot the knee yet (just have the two holes drilled as end points, but that was no problem last time. Will add tree nails at some point, but I’m not settled on which material I want to use for that yet. Regardless it’s going great!  Will be fairing the next several days, so hopefully  still going great after that   Thinking I might put in even some temporary bracing to ensure the bulkheads are still  true to the former before I start sanding. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Wxchsr
Typo

[Wxchsr]

Created a more “permanent” build board that has better keel support and side braces. Added some ply between the bulkheads to square them up better. Thought it was worth a couple days of prep before I start fairing then framing. 

[Wxchsr]

Just looking for a little input on fairing the bow portion. I thought I’d ask before I go too far. I looked at a bunch of other logs and it seems that the planing comes in close to perpendicular than a 45 from the last bulkhead but I can’t really tell from the edge on photos. I’ll took a couple images looking straight down. I know it’s different along the whole edge but that’s the point where I’m wondering about. I darkened the edges in the one photo so it’d be easier to see where I stopped for now. I drew a little bit of a like as a starting point of reference to ask everyone their thoughts on the correct approach to the bow  the line isn’t perfect as it’s not a flat surface  coming from that bulkhead, does it take a bit of an aggressive turn in for a flatter bow, or, more of a straight in approach with a shorter bend to get to the rabbet?  Sorry if I missed an on obvious answer somewhere.  Thanks in advance!

[Diver]

26 minutes ago, Wxchsr said:

Just looking for a little input on fairing the bow portion. I thought I’d ask before I go too far. I looked at a bunch of other logs and it seems that the planing comes in close to perpendicular than a 45 from the last bulkhead but I can’t really tell from the edge on photos. I’ll took a couple images looking straight down. I know it’s different along the whole edge but that’s the point where I’m wondering about. I darkened the edges in the one photo so it’d be easier to see where I stopped for now. I drew a little bit of a like as a starting point of reference to ask everyone their thoughts on the correct approach to the bow  the line isn’t perfect as it’s not a flat surface  coming from that bulkhead, does it take a bit of an aggressive turn in for a flatter bow, or, more of a straight in approach with a shorter bend to get to the rabbet?  Sorry if I missed an on obvious answer somewhere.  Thanks in advance!

Watching and learning

[glbarlow]

It needs to go in much much more, more than your line. A batten should notch into the rabbet and smoothly run through the first three bulkheads and continue on from there. As you can see from the plank you're holding it would never notch into the rabbet as it is.  This is the toughest and along with the stern the most critical part of the build at this stage. Look at all the build logs and I think you'll see what I mean.

[Wxchsr]

1 minute ago, glbarlow said:

It needs to go in much much more, more than your line. A batten should notch into the rabbet and smoothly run through the first three bulkheads and continue on from there. As you can see from the plank you're holding it would never notch into the rabbet as it is.  This is the toughest and along with the stern the most critical part of the build at this stage. Look at all the build logs and I think you'll see what I mean.

  Thank you Glenn!  I'll dig into more of the build logs for some images.  I'll get more aggressive and maybe post an "almost final" shape in the next day or so.  Take care!

[Wxchsr]

Thanks again for the guidance yesterday!  I took more time today and just “went for it.”  I was being too hesitant to not remove too much. I took a substitute plank and bent it to roughly match what the real ones will be and layed it across the bulkheads. I think I have this pretty close now, but will do the other side before any finishing touches. 

[glbarlow]

Much better. You need a long 1/64th batten, gives a better look at the fairing being easy to bend and follow the run. For me the curve between the first and third bullhead was the biggest challenge, why many use balsa filler at the bow to help out with the run of planking. 

[Wxchsr]

1 minute ago, glbarlow said:

Much better. You need a long 1/64th batten, gives a better look at the fairing being easy to bend and follow the run. For me the curve between the first and third bullhead was the biggest challenge, why many use balsa filler at the bow to help out with the run of planking. 

Good call, I'll make one of those for that purpose.  I was pondering the balsa wood there as well just for that reason.  Thanks again!

 

[Wxchsr]

Simple trick that’ll maybe help someone. It’s tough to focus on one bulkhead at a time when fairing and trying to make sure both sides are even. I cut a slot in a piece of paper and slid it over the keel between each bulkhead one at a time, starting at the bow and working to the stern. Made it really easy to spot and adjust any differences side to side. 

[Wxchsr]

Finished most of the fairing. A little fine tuning to do yet at the bow, but wanted to get the battens on so I can mark the sides before framing. Feeling very OCD trying to get this right. Leveled the desk first, then used a few squares were accessible to square the ship to the table. I don’t trust the build board to hold it exactly upright because I can’t verify it with a square.  I have the batten where I want it on the right (as you see it here) and will use a speed square to transfer the level of the top of the batten on the right to the left. Left is roughly lined up already using the reference marks, but I want to be certain. Ps the knee looks warped here but it’s an optical illusion:)

Edited February 5, 2023 by Wxchsr

[Wxchsr]

One more gut check after the previous alignment to make myself sleep better. This was low tech but did prove it out. I ran some painters tape over the keel and along the bulkhead, pulled tight so it didn’t touch the whole thing and past the parks for the batten. I then marked on the tape where my marks from the previous step were. After I did this to all of them, I took the tape off one section at a time and folded it in half using the keep mark as the center. The marks from each side all lined up within 1mm, most were exact or +/- 1/2mm. I wouldn’t trust that as the only way to measure as the bulkhead could also be off and give a false match, but in this case I was content. After this I noticed I still have a little fairing to do on the bow that I’ll deal with tomorrow before moving on to the port framing. 

[Wxchsr]

I plan on using the monofilament method for the "nails" on the ship.  Can anyone advise on the size they used for this specific ship?  I see some forum posts here and there (I think Glenn, you used "20 weight for the capstan partners and 15 for the fore and main partners," do you recall what you used/are using on the deck planks and hull planks?  I was thinking of using 12# for the deck and 20# for the hull.  I'm probably splitting less than hairs here (literally), but am just curious what others used.  TIA!

[Chuck]

Its all in the monograph chapters....just read through it....Carefully.

[Wxchsr]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

Its all in the monograph chapters....just read through it....Carefully.

Thank you Chuck!  I'll scan ahead and find that!

Edited February 9, 2023 by Wxchsr

[Wxchsr]

Bottom row of port framing is almost done. Had to remove the plywood supports as a couple we apparently slightly to big/small and was knocking it ever so slightly out of square. I spent a lot more time with these ensuring they were evenly spaced and squared. After putting in the last couple I’ll do the final touches on fairing. 

[glbarlow]

3 hours ago, Wxchsr said:

do you recall what you used/are using on the deck planks and hull planks?  

It was my choice to not use anything on hull or deck. Far too busy for my taste. You will note on other logs I’m not alone in this opinion. 
 

You’re correct on what I used for partners and capstan, I got those sizes from chapter 4 of Chuck’s monograph.  

Edited February 9, 2023 by glbarlow

[Wxchsr]

I’ve been really happy with the progress this far and have already learned a ton. I’ve decided to do a partial restart now that I have the equipment to make things better from the start. My former has a slight curve in it along the horizontal axis. much harder to deal with than the vertical axis which the framing would likely take care of. Even with that it has a slight twist, subtle, but now I know I can do better. The knee and keel are good and I should be able to reuse that, so this will only be a week or so delay, I just want it cleaner from the start. Certainly would have come out ahead $ wise just getting the laser cut parts!  There always the part of me that wants to do as much as I technically can though, so I’m good with that

[Wxchsr]

Updated build board, all squared and measured out (aligned with new former) so this round I have fixed points of reference. 

[Wxchsr]

Very happy with the restart decision. Much better tools for the level of precision needed, some of which I built just for this project (such as a table saw from a hand held 4” circular saw). 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Wxchsr

[Chuck]

Be careful.....that could be deadly!!!

[FrankWouts]

On 2/15/2023 at 8:56 PM, Wxchsr said:

Very happy with the restart decision. Much better tools for the level of precision needed, some of which I build just for this project (such as a table saw from a hand held 4” circular saw). 

Both look viable in my opinion, but perhaps  close-up differences can be noted and the one on the right is much better.

Very courageous and diligent anyway!

Frank.