Cutty Sark by VitusBering - Revell - 1:96 - PLASTIC - Redux

[VitusBering]

Thank you Bruma. Following your lead, I have these davits and the fife rails painted and prepped for installation but not glued in yet. I am relying heavily on your CS build and experience, they have been invaluable resources.

 

I will shelve the davit installation for now for that reason and because I'll likely need to wait on delivery of some sort of stiffening material or replacement davits - but mostly because of your cautionary words.

Edited June 16, 2023 by VitusBering

[gak1965]

52 minutes ago, Bruma said:

If I may add something, don't glue them now if you plan to fully rig the main mast. They will get on the way and you will hate them.

Ask me how I know...

 

Absolutely concur. The davits are going on the Fish very near the end. The only thing that may go after are the lower stuns'l booms . The holes are drilled (on the Fish they mount on the outside of the hull amidst the chains) but they are getting rigged at the last moment. I'm even tempted to rig them as if the boats are away on a task as the Britannia boats are really bad (the ones on the deck house are upside down and I added some detail to make it look better on the outside).

[VitusBering]

Thank you profusely George. Your Flying Fish is a wonder to behold - craftsmanship par excellence. I've considered rigging at least one side's davits with a boat suspended above the water as well. It is a passing thought but one that won't totally evaporate.

[VitusBering]

@gak1965 - thank you for the tip on Bluejacket. I've ordered a couple sets of davits from them, they look like they will work out better than the plastic ones. I'll need to fit cleats on them but I can do that fairly easily. Thanks again for the info and fingers crossed...

 

In the mean time, it is time to start working on the mizzen mast. Some of the deck elements in this pic are dry fit and not glued in such as the boats and fife rails. I'll start with the mizzen because I already have the main deck deadeyes wired up for the ratline and stay shrouds.

 

[VitusBering]

Mizzen stays, ratline shrouds, sheer poles, and fairleads done. Ratline rungs are next.
Fairleads are "floating" right now, they slide up and down the shrouds.

They'll be secured as the ratline rungs are installed.

How far up the shroud should the fairleads live?
I get various answers in both text and images.

 

Boats and fife rails are still dry-fit and resting in their assigned places for decoration.

I'm waiting on davits from Bluejacket - they're taking what I consider to be a long time filling the order.

I haven't reached out to them yet, I'm not in a hurry for those things, they won't get installed until after standing rigging is done or perhaps even later.

 

The line hanging from the cheeks is a pre-threaded loop for securing a sling chain to the mast when the spar is eventually installed.
There is an eye on the mast but it is obscured by the cheek block and impossible to get to after the block is attached to the mast.
 

[Bruma]

Pay attention at the backstay: in my opinion they should run outsider the spreader, not inside. That's the point of the spreader itself.

 

[VitusBering]

Thank you very much Bruma, I will likely re-route those. The 2017 instructions show them running inside the arms, the 1974 instructions are ambiguous. The stays appear to be tied to the arms but it is not clear whether inside or out (it looks inside to me).

 

Your expertise is well noted, however, and your words make total sense to me. I thank you for your advice and observation.

 

[gak1965]

Concur with Bruma here, the backstays should be outboard of the spreaders. I will also say that the backstays at the top seem odd to me as well. I've looked mostly at American clippers, but in 'G' it seems to me that you should have two pairs of backstays per side wrapped around the course mast, definitely not on the iron connecting the course and top masts

[VitusBering]

Better... I haven't lashed them to the spreader arms yet, that will wait until the main mast is done as tensioning will likely change a bit.

 

@gak1965 I'll look at other sources too to find better info than the instructions give - they are notoriously incorrect on a lot of topics.

 

[VitusBering]

12 hours ago, gak1965 said:

Concur with Bruma here, the backstays should be outboard of the spreaders. I will also say that the backstays at the top seem odd to me as well. I've looked mostly at American clippers, but in 'G' it seems to me that you should have two pairs of backstays per side wrapped around the course mast, definitely not on the iron connecting the course and top masts

 

Here's a better pic. My stays are not tied to the connecting iron though they are tied to the mast above the connector and cap.

I've started work on the ratlines, and I'd like to give a shout out to hof00 for giving me the tip of using clear nail polish as a thread/rope adhesive. It is great for light duty without the obnoxiousness of CA. Thanks!.

 

[VitusBering]

Hey George I want to thank you for all of your help, support, and advice.

[gak1965]

Vitus, this seems really odd to me. Again, working off American ships, but this has been true of other ships I've built. If you look at the lines that go from the mast to the deadeyes you get (fore to aft)

 

lower mast shrouds - start near the top of the lower mast (between the top and the mast cap), go through the lubbers hole, anchor on the deadeyes

Top mast back stays - start near the top of the topmast (between the crosstrees and the mast cap), anchor on the deadeyes.

Topgallant back stays - start just above where the topgallant lifts anchor on the mast, anchor on the deadeyes.

Royal back stays - start just above where the royal lifts anchor on the mast, anchor on the deadeyes.

Sky backstays (where relevant) start just above where the sky lifts anchor on the mast, anchor on the deadeyes.

 

On the Flying Fish that is (mizzen per side) 4 shrouds, 2 topmast backstays, 1 topgallant, 1 royal, 1 skysail backstay.

 

Looking at the instructions (and your photo) it looks like you have (per side) two backstays on the lower (that run up to the top), one attached to the topgallant but just above the course mast cap, and then 1 each where I would expect for the topgallant and royal. Am I seeing that right?

 

That just doesn't make sense to me. I defer to the Cutty Sark experts out there ( @Bruma or others), but the she have backstays on the lower mast? And the stay that is running to the lower mast cap - that seems in the wrong place to me. Physics says you want it at the end so that you have the longest possible lever arm. Where it is, you aren't getting much assistance that isn't already in the shrouds. 

 

Not casting aspersions on your work @VitusBering, you are doing great and relying on the directions but it reads wrong to me.

 

Regards,

George

 

[VitusBering]

I totally agree with you that the instructions are grossly wrong. I suspect that the kit makers were not well versed at all in the way that a clipper is rigged and also completely ignored all of the available documentation on clippers and this vessel in particular.

 

I think that the instructions show locations that are convenient for the kit maker and instruction writers - those locations have visual effect as the primary consideration with little or no regard for practical applicability.

 

So... what am I to do? I'm not at all sure.

 

For the standing rigging, I'm inclined to follow the instructions in so far as they don't egregiously violate my sensibilities.

 

I am quite positive that the standing rigging instructions are going to be less offensive than the running rigging.

A quick glance at that shows a rudimentary approach that will take many hours of study of the Underhill and Longridge books to correct.

 

I've often said that I don't intend for this to be a museum quality model.

I may build one of those one day but you can bet it won't be a Revell kit.

 

Thank you again for your invaluable help, support, and advice, and I hope you are prepared for a barrage of questions as this build progresses. 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by VitusBering
Fix typos

[Ian_Grant]

Interesting discussion. It prompted me to dig out my old CS instructions from the 70's, and look at the (sad state) of my CS. I see I rigged mine according to the instructions. I'll just say a few things, noting that I have no CS-specific books either.

 

Revell shows a kink in the backstays where they meet the spreaders which is utter nonsense.  As far as I've read, the spreaders should not disturb the straight run of the backstays; there should not be a bend in them at the spreaders.

 

Revell's instructions are quite clear that the mizzen topmast has no backstays at all. This is surprising to me, unless just maybe it gives the driver gaff more space to pivot? I see I rigged mine faithful to this.

 

Revell's "backstay #3" to the topmasts is very vague as to what happens to it at the topmast.  As George says they should loop around the topmast immediately above the crosstrees but it doesn't look like that on the drawing. I see I did topmast backstays two different ways on my CS; what did the teenaged me know?

 

Underhill shows that iron lower masts often had a pair of backstays attached to eyes welded to the lower mast's cap. Revell's "backstay #2" could be a lazy way to rig them.

[VitusBering]

37 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

Revell shows a kink in the backstays where they meet the spreaders which is utter nonsense.  As far as I've read, the spreaders should not disturb the straight run of the backstays; there should not be a bend in them at the spreaders.

 

I've seen that in numerous pictures but with the location of the deadeyes there is no straight shot to the tie points. I've installed the deadeyes as closely as possible to the location of the kit's faux deadeyes.

 

As for the rest, I think you're spot on when you say it is/was a lazy method and the same should be said for all the stays.

 

I know it rankles, but I will probably follow the kit's instructions for the main and fore mast stays as well, largely to maintain some semblance of consistency. I haven't started those, of course, and my thoughts may change as the build progresses.

 

Right now, I have hundreds of clove hitches to tie.

Edited June 24, 2023 by VitusBering
Fix typos

[gak1965]

36 minutes ago, VitusBering said:

Right now, I have hundreds of clove hitches to tie.

Been there. It goes faster than you expect.

[VitusBering]

My ratline tying was briefly interrupted by the arrival of custom boat davits from Bluejacket Shipcrafters.

The metal they're made from is very soft, but they aren't as flimsy as the soft plastic kit davits.

 

They were not pre-drilled. Holes in the ends posed no problem, holes in the center for cleat attachment created a weak point that worried me so I made a predrilled, snug-fitting styrene sleeve and slid it over the area,  and installed a facsimile cleat in the aligned holes.

 

I painted the whole shebang and wired up some blocks. The davits are ready to install but on Bruma's wise suggestion I'll wait until the main mast is rigged before tackling these. I'm confident they won't suffer the wobbly distortion with which the kit davits are afflicted.

 

 

[VitusBering]

I do like having many of my modeling tools and materials organized in medicine bottles but having them rattling about in a Tupperware container was less than ideal. They'd fall over frequently and were rarely in the same spot I left them last.

 

I have a pile of these easel boxes so I repurposed a few of them to organize the stuff. I think they came out OK. At least things are a bit more organized now.

 

 

The Cutty Sark has not been sitting entirely idle. The fore and main masts are painted and dry fit and sitting loose in the sockets - that's why the rake looks kind of goofy. Of course a handful of other deck elements are also dry fit as I've mentioned before (boats and fife rails for example).

 

The ratlines for the mizzen are almost done, and I disguised some deadeyes to serve as fairleads.

 

I didn't notice until I took this pic that at least one of the ratline rungs on the starboard side of the mizzen needs to be re-done. The bend in the shroud isn't really noticeable until it shows up in the photo, especially with the mast in contrast. It is rather easily done though because I've used nail polish as an adhesive (thanks again hof00) so they'll come loose more easily than if they were secured with CA. [edit] Fixed already.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by VitusBering
Update on fix

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I'll quote from the 'Classic Ships' Cutty Sark by Noel Hackney (Airfix - their CS was small in scale - abt. 1:170 - and only a skilled miniaturist has the ability to do what the book lays out in that scale ... then again, there have been rare artisans throughout history that have executed incredible works of the smallest proportions in areas as diverse as jewelry, micro mosaics, watchmaking, micro-carving ... and my guess that no more than one in ten thousand have that level of accomplishment - at 1:96 things are much more manageable for the 'rest of us').

 

   "The most effective way to build an accurate model is to do it in the same order as that used by the original builders.  This is the basis of the system detailed in this book, although some stages are changed from their correct order for ease of building."

 

   That the book may seem puzzling until studied at length (and a fair knowledge of relevant ship and rigging components helps), realizing that three 'versions' of rigging are 'compressed' (and mixed with a tricky 'coding' system) into a slim volume: one ship that is simplified; one with detail but w/o sails (harbor rig) and one in full sail.  As this relates to your project, his method is designed to limit deformations of bendable masts and spars - which if plastic, bend more than wood.  He recommends mounting the first sections of masts plus their respective shrouds and forestays ... first, then work upwards level by level - balancing the forces as one goes.  The shrouds are place and adjusted in pairs (left and right) to minimize pulling to either side - and the forestays counteract rearward pull by the shrouds - and further up, the backstays. (Note that many builders wait until near the end to bother with the ratlines, that can otherwise make all the other rigging more difficult.  Shrouds w/o ratlines permit tools to be place through them to manipulate other stuff.

 

  There is another 'school of thought' whereby each mast is made off model (preliminarily rigging the yards as well) before placement ... and this can work well as long as the shrouds and stays (fore and back) are done from the bottom up to balance forces exerted by the rigging.  'Don't know if your masts are glued in (some don't use glue at all inch the lower shrouds will keep them from ever popping out),  but any bending can likely be adjusted with fore stays.  Seems the masts have a rearward rake anyway (by a few degrees_ and as long as all the masts seem 'to the eye' to 'line up' (at whatever angle) all should be well.  And then, a photo can exaggerate from how a model looks in person.

 

 

[gak1965]

4 hours ago, VitusBering said:

already.

 

Hi Vitus,

     Good to see you are making progress. It's quite possible it's just an artifact of the angles, but is the Royal mast bent aft compared to the rest of the mizzen mast (too much tension on the backstays, maybe)? 

 

Referring back to @Snug Harbor Johnny's comment above. I think it'll be easier to keep everything lined up if you do the fore and backstays as pairs as you go up the mast, which will help keeping the flexible masts where you want.

 

Regards,

GAK

[VitusBering]

1 hour ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

[...] Don't know if your masts are glued in (some don't use glue at all inch the lower shrouds will keep them from ever popping out),  but any bending can likely be adjusted with fore stays.  Seems the masts have a rearward rake anyway (by a few degrees_ and as long as all the masts seem 'to the eye' to 'line up' (at whatever angle) all should be well.  And then, a photo can exaggerate from how a model looks in person.

 

 It is, as gak1965 noted, partly an artifact of camera angle and juxtaposition with the other two masts - but only partly. Even though there is virtually no tension on the stays, the fragile nature of the thinnest parts of the masts means they will bend. Most of this will be corrected and offset by other elements of the standing rigging (I don't know what the lines are called but there are several that originate on the main mast and terminate on upper parts of the mizzen) and quite probably the running rigging as well.

 

The royal section of the main mast is even more flexible and will require extra care to prevent over-raking.

Edited July 3, 2023 by VitusBering

[VitusBering]

30 minutes ago, gak1965 said:

Hi Vitus,

     Good to see you are making progress. It's quite possible it's just an artifact of the angles, but is the Royal mast bent aft compared to the rest of the mizzen mast (too much tension on the backstays, maybe)? 

 

Referring back to @Snug Harbor Johnny's comment above. I think it'll be easier to keep everything lined up if you do the fore and backstays as pairs as you go up the mast, which will help keeping the flexible masts where you want.

 

Regards,

GAK

 

There is really no tension at all on the stays, only enough to keep them from looking saggy. Each of them are single lines, running from the main deck deadeye to a knot on the mast tie point then down to the corresponding deadeye on the opposite side. As I mentioned to Johnny I'm fairly certain it will be a self-correcting problem as the rigging progresses. If not, I can re-run the stays but will probably need to reinforce the royal section of the mast. I'm hoping to avoid that, but it is an option.

 

[edit] I use this knot at the tie points for most of the stays, I really like the way it looks and behaves.

Edited July 3, 2023 by VitusBering
Add knot pic

[gak1965]

Makes sense. I've heard of people putting metal rods in the thicker sections of the masts.

[hof00]

Hi Chap,

Your Cutty is looking pretty good!! 🙂

 

Cheers....HOF.

[VitusBering]

I finished the ratlines on the mizzen and the backstays on the main. As bad as the instruction page for the mizzen is, the main is worse. The tie points for the backstays make no sense at all. I did follow the instructions though because the scale-appropriate rigging for the backstays is not really feasible with this model. And as you might imagine the royal section of the main mast is very thin and excessively flexible.

 

Despite having yet again virtually no tension on the stays, the upper section of the mast bends unacceptably. I ran a test and the forestays will correct the problem. So, no pics until more of the standing rigging is in place.

 

Right now I'm working on those alternative boat davits and they're working out very well.

 

[VitusBering]

After long consideration I've made the painful decision to un-rig the backstays entirely. The aft bend in the royal sections of the masts can be mostly corrected by subsequent installation of the forestays - but the key word here is mostly. It caused me much anguish to clip all of those deadeye lanyards, knowing each will need to be re-wired (my least favorite part of rigging) but it simply is necessary.

 

I'll run the forestays first, from the deck upwards and fore to aft, as indicated in the older 1974 instructions. It will also give me an opportunity to more closely examine the attachments for all of the standing rigging in books and images.

[Ian_Grant]

Sorry to hear that ...... the usual sequence would be stays first since they're along the centreline and soon become less accessible, then backstays. When rigging each stay, I attach a temporary backstay to the next mast behind, or something convenient, so I can tighten the stay and the backstay to ensure the mast is straight when I fix the stay. For this stage I work from stern forwards.

[VitusBering]

Thanks Ian. After studying the stays both fore and back the 1974 instructions seem to make sense to me, rigging the forestays bow first. The backstays may be a different story by the time the forestays are in place, I may rig them stern to fore.

 

[edit] I rigged the backstays first because the 2017 instructions are ambiguous at best and suggest, without specifics, that's the way it should be done. The 1974 instructions are much more clear with numbered steps and detailed imagery. I will, from this stage forward, use those instructions as my main reference. The more I read the later ones, the less they make sense.

 

I like your idea of a temporary stay to help with tensioning - I applied that technique when rigging the backstays but it was less than successful. That's my own fault, though, and the re-do (while a bit painful) will result in a much more workable scenario.

Edited July 9, 2023 by VitusBering

[VitusBering]

As painful as the removal of the backstays was, it was ultimately the right call. The forestays are now installed. I've taken considerably liberty with tie points and methods, mostly because the instructions (both old and new) are ambiguous or missing critical detail. In some cases I was able to glean some useful info from books and Kevin-the-lubber's amazing collection of images of the restored ship. As for the rest, I just chose to do what felt good to me and would look pleasing on the model.

 

 

 

 

On a side note, the two forward deck houses have some open doors. My better half noticed and wondered where the furniture was. I think it is a good question. The forward deck house's roof is removeable and I may search around a bit for a 1/96 scale (or similar) table and chair set.

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by VitusBering
Add link to Kevin's image archive

[VitusBering]

Trail boards and gingerbread installed. I haven't tackled the nameplate on the steering box yet - that PE is so fiddly it makes me nervous. I'll get to it when I'm in more of a Zen state of mind.

 

 

[edit] what looks like gold or copper on those chains is just reflection. I did a double-take and had to check. The camera can be deceptive.

 

 

 

Also reinstalled the mizzen backstays to much better effect this time around and didn't neglect their fairleads this time.

Sharp eyes may notice I've removed the foremost boat mount (it was not glued in and may never be), and removed the mid section's belaying pins (like their full scale counterparts, they are not permanently set, either). That is all so I can get me some fightin' room to begin work on the main's shrouds and stays.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by VitusBering