USS Constitution by Der Alte Rentner - Model Shipways - 1/76

[Der Alte Rentner]

No worries Haiko, that's what these forms are for, the sharing of information.

 

Here's a nugget of information I'm going to share today. I installed the two knees at the transom that I fail to do in the initial round of top rail planking.

 

 

Amazing how such little task can take so many hours..

[GGibson]

Good looking knees, Peter! 👍

[Der Alte Rentner]

22 hours ago, GGibson said:

Good looking knees, Peter! 👍

My orthopedic surgeon would disagree, but he hasn't yet seen the model.. 😁

 

I did not have much success with mustafa's lamination technique. If I were painting, this would not be a problem because I could fill the gaps with putty, sand, and hide the offending areas. I might go back to just making wider panels and cutting the shapes, per the Hunt Practicum. 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by Der Alte Rentner
Typos

[mtbediz]

Yes, there are traces of layers on mine too, but since I painted them, I didn't care much. The best way for you is to make templates and cut them out.

[Der Alte Rentner]

It has been a very busy holiday season, and I am just now returning my attention to the shipyard. As I await a delivery of boxwood, so that I can complete the main and top gallant rails, I'm beginning to plan my upcoming trip to Florida.  What can I do to occupy myself with the USS Constitution in a hotel room?

 

How about tackling the half barrel cannons, the carronades and their carriages?  The castings that came with the kit are abysmal. But if I bring the parts along, with some files and sanding sticks, I might be able to clean up the carronades and cannons, and make the latter fit the holes in the gunports.  That's a lot of busy work, which will certainly occupy my idle time in Florida. However, I compared the parts between the Model Shipways kit and the Constructo kit, and I'm wondering if I can at least swap out the carronades with those from the Constructo kit.  The carriage sides seem to be identical in size.  The guns themselves are shorter, but they look a heck of a lot nicer than the crud from M.S.

 

Model Shipway carronade vs Constructo (Constructo supplies brass and sapellly wood)

 

Also, what should I make of this note?

 

Filing the half cannon ends to fit the gunport holes might be unavoidable, as the Constructo parts won't fit.

 

One small accomplishment - thank you Clement for printing me the Eagle!

 

Edited Saturday at 09:42 PM by Der Alte Rentner
Typo

[GGibson]

Seems like decent looking carronades has been an issue with everyone, Peter... Ugghhh...  But, a great looking eagle! Hats off to Clement! 🤠👍

[JSGerson]

Ah yes, the carronades.   Here is a "blurb" from the USS Constitution Museum:

 

Quote

Constitution’s Modern Armament

August 25, 2015

 

By Margherita M. Desy, Kate Monea

 

Originally rated as a 44-gun frigate, USS Constitution typically carried around 54 guns. During the War of 1812, she mounted twenty-four 32-pound carronades on the spar deck, as well as a long 18-pound “chase” gun forward, and thirty 24-pound long guns on the gun deck.

 

Today, Constitution’s guns are replicas, not originals. When the ship returned to Boston in 1897 for her 100th birthday, she no longer carried any guns. In 1883 she had been turned into barracks and a “receiving ship” for sailors, so guns were no longer necessary. Her first 20th century restoration in 1906-1907 saw fifty-five replica guns made for the ship. All of the present guns were cast for the 1927-1931 restoration with the exception of two 1812-era replica carronades on the after quarter deck. Cast in 1981, these carronades are closer to Constitution‘s 1812 spar deck armament. The gun deck guns were cast in the Charlestown Navy Yard in 1929. The pattern of these guns was based on a British siege gun that was abandoned in Boston during the American Revolution and is currently displayed near Harvard University. The decision to cast “British” guns was made by Lieutenant John A. Lord, Supervisor of the 1927-1931 restoration. He based his decision upon inaccurate research that led the Navy to mistakenly believe that Constitution was outfitted with British guns in 1812.

Below are images of the inaccurate British siege gun and the more accurate 812-era replica carronades. the one with the screw barrel elevator. I elected to place the more accurate 1812 version on my model. Others have decided to use the siege gun version because that is what is on the ship today save for the two 1812 replicas. The two version require different carriage designs. The choice is yours.

 

Jon

 

[GGibson]

22 minutes ago, JSGerson said:

...and the more accurate 812-era replica carronades. the one with the screw barrel elevator. I elected to place the more accurate 1812 version on my model.

 

Great USSCM info, Jon.  Thanks for sharing!  I do like the looks of the screw barrel version.  I don't recall your discussion of carronade choices, though, yet, on your build log.  My obvious question is... where did you get the screw-barrel carronades?!? 😆👍 

 

I'm trying to recall without looking up to verify to avoid making a fool of myself (easily done, however), but I recall a 38mm length at this 76.8 scale, but don't remember if that was for the cannons or carronades.  🤷‍♀️

[JSGerson]

I hadn't discussed the carronades on my blog yet because I'm not there yet. I purchased all the 1812 carronades for the spar deck from Model Monkey a year or so back.  They 3-D printed parts specifically for the 76.8 scale MS kit and they weren't cheap. In this case they printed the complete carronade barrel and carriage as one unit. I would have preferred just the barrel and fabricate the carriages myself. We'll see if I can split them apart when the time comes. However, the bad news is I didn't see those items on their web page when I checked today (1/5/25). Of course, I have the US Navy plans for both versions of the carronades should anyone want them.

[GGibson]

I was looking at the Model Monkey page a few days ago.  I'm still seeing this 32-pound carronade/carriage combo on their page.  But, as you said, Jon, not sure how well they could be separated.  1/76 US Navy 32-pounder Carronades with Carriages | Model Monkey

 

I'll be interested in watching how both you and Peter fare in this carronade issue.  Thanks to both of you for the great info.

[JSGerson]

Gregg, My error, the USS Constitution carronades are still listed on Model Monkey. Thanks for the correction. But they are still expensive.

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. 

 

I took a  look at the Model Monkey product, and while the price wasn't half bad (if I read correctly, 8 ea. for $18 and change?), I didn't like the look.  Preferring brass, and wanting to avoid filing the Model Shipways dummy barrels to fit the holes in the gunports, I took a chance on this more esthetically pleasing offering from HiSModel (available through E-Bay) instead:

 

This is the link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225798488561?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20231107084023%26meid%3D99995fd3ece648bbb639713d73e121c0%26pid%3D101875%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D224832281882%26itm%3D225798488561%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2332490%26algv%3DSimVIDwebV3WithCPCExpansionEmbeddingSearchQueryRecallAuctionPushout%26brand%3DModel%2BShipways&_trksid=p2332490.c101875.m1851&itmprp=cksum%3A22579848856199995fd3ece648bbb639713d73e121c0|enc%3AAQAJAAABMM%2BSIK5LCqs2uiCwInhHqGVzIMLIMo0iPltG%2Fc%2FV8dzqXG8bAAbTVw985HbdYTuG2wPTDx%2F8lbe8GSu4NUrsEPcDBvCLFhf2QkBmtTX5yUHKQb00aHrCAEqnL1H7RiLKPWzAq77QSHjvkbp%2FD6QIw2d0cwYkcaEx1Le5vSJVNSpietrpaDU6XL1sU59PSFVgME0FeDqPYwDuID3a3%2Bvh%2F53vbte%2BQu3o0w6ieGjGnLdw3ubBmNku7FqvGzXRs3I0v8TOWfoozbZ0xH%2FPhofdDYM3ofsUrcQv82u8IpmkqnqOnqjo9lX%2Fga%2FLeb4CWX5A%2BXyq6RFdxkASoQYLBYDYK8XQg5x%2BvAMCkFig8VKslfNN0ARTWvpDjXV%2Bs8WBFrNZPfHCBzABYPTB8%2F1qV0GsQeE%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2332490&itmmeta=01JGY06WJ0VRGHK6MCB5SMVHY0

 

Given that I'm building the model to my own taste and (in)experience 😁, I'm not all that concerned about historical accuracy (or scale).  I'm hunting around the shipyard for some ebony left over from a previous project in the hope that I can build the spar deck gun carriages from that -  because I think that would net some really awesome results.  If the ebony doesn't turn up, I could paint the assemblies made from the M.S. laser cut stock, or simply use the Contsructo kit carriages.    The latter look pretty good.   The HiSModel carronades look to be longer than those in the Constructo kit, but since the carriages appear to be the same size.  I'll likely be mixing and matching.  

 

At any rate.  Construction of the carronades will be relegated to the upcoming Floridian hiatus. I'm hoping the HiSModel dummy barrels fit the gunport holes without modification..

 

In the short term I'm still on the sidelines awaiting a shipment of boxwood sheets in various thicknesses.  

 

Lastly, I was hoping I could find the cannons at Syren  Ship Model Company.  Sadly, that part of their store was "closed for maintenance"

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 03:09 PM by Der Alte Rentner
added content and screen shots

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 1/4/2025 at 4:53 PM, JSGerson said:

Below are images of the inaccurate British siege gun and the more accurate 812-era replica carronades. the one with the screw barrel elevator.

As always, Jon, thanks for the images.  My reference library grows, but it will never compare to yours. 

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 1/4/2025 at 5:25 PM, GGibson said:

I'm trying to recall without looking up to verify to avoid making a fool of myself (easily done, however), but I recall a 38mm length at this 76.8 scale, but don't remember if that was for the cannons or carronades.  🤷‍♀️

Likewise trying to recall, without making a fool of myself 😉..  I think the carronades that came with the M.S. kit measured around 25mm in length.  Looking at the HisModel offering above, I'm pretty sure their carronades are going to be about the same size as the slightly shorter Constructo provided guns.  I'll revise this post when next in the shipyard..  (can't do it until I fix the garage door cable, which I discovered yesterday was severely frayed.  I'm not risking my truck in the hope the cable won't snap as I'm driving it out of the garage..)  

 

[JSGerson]

I checked the US Navy plans and got the following gun lengths:

Carronades:

• British Style: 5' 1 7/8" => scale: 0.81" (13/16") or 20.5 mm
• 1812 Style: 5' 5" => scale: 0.85" (27/32") or 21.6 mm

32 pdr: 10' 9 1/8" => scale: 1.7" (1 45/64") or 43.2 mm

24 pdr: 10' 1 1/4" => scale: 1.6" (39/64") or 40.6 mm

 

Jon

[GGibson]

2 hours ago, JSGerson said:

I checked the US Navy plans and got the following gun lengths:

 

Oh, wow... I was way off.  Not sure what number I was recalling.  I am "forever time" away from this point, anyways, but appreciate all the great info, gentlemen! 

[GGibson]

10 hours ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

Lastly, I was hoping I could find the cannons at Syren  Ship Model Company.  Sadly, that part of their store was "closed for maintenance"

 

 

 

 

Hey Peter, I do recall Chuck saying that he and his wife were moving the first part of the year, so if he isn't in the process, he's probably packing.  But Syren would be a great source, if he's able.  I also recall something on the website stating that he got his brass cannons from someone in Poland.  But, as he has been doing with his blocks, he has been working with laser-printed fittings lately, so an 1812-era screw-barrel elevator carronade may be a doable addition at some point.  Probably not timely, though, for what you are looking for.  I think your HiSModel option is a good choice, then.  Shipping, however, from the Czech Republic will be slow.  Fair warning if you weren't already aware. 

[Unegawahya]

On 1/5/2025 at 11:18 AM, JSGerson said:

I hadn't discussed the carronades on my blog yet because I'm not there yet. I purchased all the 1812 carronades for the spar deck from Model Monkey a year or so back.  They 3-D printed parts specifically for the 76.8 scale MS kit and they weren't cheap. In this case they printed the complete carronade barrel and carriage as one unit. I would have preferred just the barrel and fabricate the carriages myself. We'll see if I can split them apart when the time comes. However, the bad news is I didn't see those items on their web page when I checked today (1/5/25). Of course, I have the US Navy plans for both versions of the carronades should anyone want them.

I got the same carronades! I was able to split them from the bases and I made a jig to drill the holes for the trunnions. I also kept the mounting for the two screw elevation types.

[GGibson]

5 hours ago, Unegawahya said:

I got the same carronades! I was able to split them from the bases and I made a jig to drill the holes for the trunnions. I also kept the mounting for the two screw elevation types.

 

Nice to see you were able to separate the carronades from their bases for the ones that have the screw barrel elevation mechanisms, Unegawahya!  Did you just use something similar to an Xacto knife or something more complex?  They look good! 

[Unegawahya]

2 hours ago, GGibson said:

 

Nice to see you were able to separate the carronades from their bases for the ones that have the screw barrel elevation mechanisms, Unegawahya!  Did you just use something similar to an Xacto knife or something more complex?  They look good! 

If I remember correctly I cut the carriage around the mount and then sanded the excess flat to the mount. The wedge type I just used snippers to cut the mounting it self.

[JSGerson]

I feel better knowing the barrels can be separated. Very nice job. Are going to show any additional details on your blog?

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

Can anyone recommend a supplier for #8000  (.0208 x .0208 x 11") basswood, boxwood or holly strips?  Xken used this material to do his bow stripes.  

I don't wan't to use styrene because I'm trying to stick with the stained/unstained contrast scheme.  I've tried an internet search and struck out - the few sites that showed it were out of stock. 

 

I suppose I could try making my own, but if someone knows someone..   😉

[JSGerson]

I tried styrene with mixed results. I found that CA glue made the plastic brittle. If I were to do it over again, I would use birchwood strips. Its flexible enough to tie into knots! I don't know if you can find the exact dimensions pre-cut however, so you might have to do that yourself. There are an number of suppliers on the web.

 

Jon

[mtbediz]

30 minutes ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

Can anyone recommend a supplier for #8000  (.0208 x .0208 x 11") basswood, boxwood or holly strips?  Xken used this material to do his bow stripes.  

I don't wan't to use styrene because I'm trying to stick with the stained/unstained contrast scheme.  I've tried an internet search and struck out - the few sites that showed it were out of stock. 

 

I suppose I could try making my own, but if someone knows someone..   😉

You can try cutting from 0.5 mm veneer with a sharp blade. I don't think it will be very difficult.

Edited 52 minutes ago by mtbediz

[GGibson]

52 minutes ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

Can anyone recommend a supplier for #8000  (.0208 x .0208 x 11") basswood, boxwood or holly strips? 

 

Hey Peter!  I have used Joe at Modeler's Sawmill in the past and he's awesome with good quality wood strips or sheets.   His strip packages only go down to 1/32" and it looks like you are needing 1/48" (wow, that's thin!), but see what he can do!  Wishing you the best!  

 

Milled wood lumber strips for the model ship builder - Modelers Sawmill

 

I haven't used styrene before, but in reading all of your build logs, it sounds like that is going to be an option I'm going to need to have ready, as well!  Taking notes...!