HM Gun Brig Adder 1797 by DB789 - Vanguard Models - 1:64

[DB789]

On 3/27/2024 at 1:40 PM, 0gri said:

Hi Dan,appologise for no log,i no longer posses a camera and as i spend most of my time closly examining pictures of the part im currently working on i dont think a text only log would attract any attention :-).If theres anything i can help with please feel free to pm me but im sure chris will answer any questions you have.I spent yesterday building the rudder and post,and the 24 pounders,all of which flew together very easily and look fantastic.
ps.if anybody is reading this considering Adder as there next build please do not be put off by my use of the word struggle,i cannot recommend vangaurd models highly enough.

Thanks Ogri, will do. Yes, Chris’s advice is super too. I’ve also built the 24 pounders.

I agree entirely on Vanguard. I’m posting my log to help any other builders with some of the issues that I, as a relatively inexperienced builder, run into and how these are overcome. Plus to benefit from the wealth of knowledge, advice and experience of other builders on MSW. 

[DB789]

3 hours ago, BrochBoating said:

Just ordered Adder so will be following very closely.

Simon, look forward to seeing you build her. I’m enjoying your Trial which is looking great. 

[BrochBoating]

1 hour ago, DB789 said:

Simon, look forward to seeing you build her. I’m enjoying your Trial which is looking great. 

 

Thanks Dan. It seems Adder and Trial have a similar very bluff bow. As you can see on mine I made some big mistakes but recovered. Overall I found pretty severe bow tapering and edge sanding helped mitigate lifting then soaking and ironing onto the bulkheads. Quite a lot of ironing to get any shape. While I agree that partial pinning (ie not fully inserting) is probably ideal for me it doesn't really work when the curves are strong. I push the pins fully home  to hold the curve and leave for at least 24 hours to cure the PVA. Then a craft knife blade under the head easily levers the pin out. I'm very novice but this was more challenging, with or without my brain farts. However I'm now very happy with the hull finish after a few running repairs, varnish and leaving for a week to cure.

Adder won't be my next but should be a good stepping stone from Trial to Speedy. With maybe Duchess and a few fishing boats in-between  

[wvdhee]

A painted hull needs to be done accurately as well imho, you do want to see the planks still.

 

(Reply to #30)

Edited March 28 by wvdhee

[BrochBoating]

6 minutes ago, wvdhee said:

A painted hull needs to be done accurately as well imho, you do want to see the planks still.

 

(Reply to #30)

 

Couldn't agree more. Not sure historically what would be right but I try to get subtly obvious.

[wvdhee]

14 minutes ago, BrochBoating said:

 

Couldn't agree more. Not sure historically what would be right but I try to get subtly obvious.

Exactly that 😃

[DB789]

58 minutes ago, wvdhee said:

A painted hull needs to be done accurately as well imho, you do want to see the planks still.

 

(Reply to #30)

Walter, Simon, I’m not sure I entirely agree on a warship. Looking carefully at Chris’s photos of the Adder prototype on the VM website and in the manual, there doesn’t look like there is any visible hint of planking under a very smooth white painted lower hull. That’s the look I’m aiming for on Adder, although I doubt I’ll be able to achieve it!
 

I liked a bit of planking showing through on the VM fishing boats, as these were likely much cruder built working boats. 

[DB789]

2 hours ago, BrochBoating said:

 

Thanks Dan. It seems Adder and Trial have a similar very bluff bow. As you can see on mine I made some big mistakes but recovered. Overall I found pretty severe bow tapering and edge sanding helped mitigate lifting then soaking and ironing onto the bulkheads. Quite a lot of ironing to get any shape. While I agree that partial pinning (ie not fully inserting) is probably ideal for me it doesn't really work when the curves are strong. I push the pins fully home  to hold the curve and leave for at least 24 hours to cure the PVA. Then a craft knife blade under the head easily levers the pin out. I'm very novice but this was more challenging, with or without my brain farts. However I'm now very happy with the hull finish after a few running repairs, varnish and leaving for a week to cure.

Adder won't be my next but should be a good stepping stone from Trial to Speedy. With maybe Duchess and a few fishing boats in-between  

Thanks Simon, I do the same pushing the pins fully in when I can’t pre-form the planks well enough, such as in this case. 
 

I haven’t tried ironing the planks onto the bulkheads but soak and iron them on a jig as per Chuck Passaro’s method. Usually this works very well, although I’ve never managed to achieve the perfect fit from this approach that Walter [and Chuck] have described, maybe one day…. 
 

Adder’s bow is very bluff due to her role as a gun brig, I suspect much more so than Trial and certainly more than any other build I’ve attempted. I’m not at all worried about how the end result will look on Adder. I’m not a purist, if the end result looks good, I don’t really mind how I got there! 
 

My build trajectory is likely to be similar to yours. Likely Speedy next, then Duchess unless Chris throws a spanner in the works and comes out with something else exciting like Adder.
 

I’d strong recommend Grecian too, she’s easy to build, looks fantastic finished and the built model is quite substantial compared to Adder, Speedy, Alert, Trial, etc. I don’t think the photos online do her justice as she’s hard to photograph with those very long masts and bowsprit. 

[BrochBoating]

12 hours ago, DB789 said:

I haven’t tried ironing the planks onto the bulkheads but soak and iron them on a jig as per Chuck Passaro’s method

I bought a travel iron from Argos and, occasional burnt finger aside, it works really well. Soak for about five minutes then hold in position with one hand and iron with the other gradually moving along the plank. Of course the colour of the wood shows you progress but check the under side too as it can take longer than you’d think. 
 

12 hours ago, DB789 said:

Likely Speedy next, then Duchess

I spoke to Chris about this and he suggested the other way round due to Speedy’s complex rigging. Grecian is on the list too but I want Duchess in the stash first 😉

[DB789]

Thanks Simon, I’ll try that planking technique. 
 

You’re right it should really be Duchess before Speedy as the former, like Adder, has slightly simplified rigging with a few lines omitted. Not sure which order I’ll build them… I have Speedy, but not Duchess. 

[BrochBoating]

1 hour ago, DB789 said:

I have Speedy, but not Duchess

 

Snap!

[DB789]

This is the completed first planking, sanded and filled. It’s good and smooth to the touch, although it doesn’t look it in the photos. 

The lower transom is glued on, the upper part I’ve clamped just to aid positioning the lower transom and will remove. 

The fascia is added to the stem post, creating a decent rabbet for the second planking. 

The keel is also added, showing the gaps for the drop keels. 

Then the fascia for the keel. 
Lastly in this post, I soaked and then clamped the outer fascia for the port bulwark. I tried dry fitting it, but it would have snapped if I forced it. 
 

The instructions don’t say soak the part, but a few pages later, Chris shows these pre-shaped, so I think soaking is the right approach. 

[chris watton]

I didn't soak them, I just left them clamped in place overnight, and the patterns kept their bend (more or less) If soaked, I would leave in place for at least 2 days, to make sure all traces of water has gone.

[DB789]

Thanks Chris, I’ll do that. How did you bend it dry around the bow? Mine felt like it was going to snap so I soaked it. 

[chris watton]

6 minutes ago, DB789 said:

Thanks Chris, I’ll do that. How did you bend it dry around the bow? Mine felt like it was going to snap so I soaked it. 

By just adding one clamp at a time from the bow to the stern, and slowly...

 

You can use water to soak them, but you must leave them in place for a couple of days so the moisture dissipates completely - if not, then the part will be bigger than it should be, and will shrink to proper size after you glued it, which would not be good.

Edited March 30 by chris watton

[DB789]

Thanks Chris, I’ll leave it a couple of days to dry. I’m not going to glue it until the second planking is complete, as you suggest in the instructions. Just use it for positioning the first plank for now, but it will need to shrink back for that too.

[Theodosius]

Good job on your first planking! And that 24'ers look massive! I like!

[Glenn-UK]

Enjoying your progress. I think the Brig Adder will be my next build once I have completed the Indy in a few months time. I really like the look of the curved bow.

[DB789]

Thanks Glen, she’ll be a minnow compared to your impressive Indy. I’m really enjoying Adder. 
 

As per Chris’s excellent guidance the bulwarks, once soaked were clamped and left to dry for two days. I then unclamped them and checked their fit over any holes, oar ports, etc. which was near perfect. 

The now pre-formed outer bulwarks below:

Then the bulwarks were carefully reclamped and the first plank was added without glue and pinned in place snug up against the clamped bulwarks. The bulwarks were then removed so no CA glue sullied them and the second plank added and glued in place. 
I’ve added back the bulwark for illustrative purposes in the two photos below. (Apologies for photo orientation, I can’t correct this on my iPhone).

Then the top plank was unpinned and removed, leaving just the single second plank on the hull. 
At this stage I debated discarding the top plank as it has pin holes in it, but decided it would be hard to match its taper identically on a replacement plank and the plank will be entirely under the gunwales so the holes don’t matter. This plank was then glued in place too. 
 

Then I continued planking down the hull. As can be seen in the photos below I’ve followed Chris’s advice and tapered 75% of the plank away at the bow, except for the top plank which was tapered to 50% so it was less likely to be split by a pin. Looking good so far, only 4 planks on the port side in place, curves look much softer than on the first planking. 
I won’t have much time for ship building for the next week, unfortunately. Will be back on the case after that. 

[DB789]

Second planking is now complete. Tapering more aggressively than in the first planking helped a great deal. Having not used tick marks to work out the extent of the tapering at each bulkhead I fell foul of tapering past bulkheads 1 & 2 whilst the planks needed to be wider here, so I needed to fill in the gaps. I haven’t detailed my planking journey here as technically it’s what not to do, and the end result is a little crazy paving in places, but with filler and sanding, smooth to the touch its close to what I’m aiming to achieve as the lower hull will be entirely painted. 

The outer sternboard was clamped on (not glued) and the sternpost glued in place. 

The outer sternboard has been removed again and the upper hull has been masked off for painting. 
First coat of paint has produced a surprisingly pleasing result without any noticeable cracks  There are some areas where planks show through and the filler rougher than I’d like, but overall, this looks good to me for a painted hull and not too far off the end result I’m looking for. 
More filler, sanding and another coat of paint… and repeat… 

[mugje]

Smooth!  

[DB789]

Many coats of paint, filler and sanding later… 

Added the rudder hinges on too. Smooth, except as always on my builds, I struggle to get the planks neat near the bottom of the rudder post where they do show a little. 
 

Masking tape removed. The brilliance of Chris’s design here is that the lower hull is fully painted without any risk of getting paint on any of the outer or inner wooden parts that will show. The line between the upper bulwarks and the white lower hull will be hidden behind black painted gunwales added later providing clear lines on the hull without the risk of paint bleeding under masking tape. Very clever and well thought out. 

[CiscoH]

thats a nice paintjob

[DB789]

5 hours ago, CiscoH said:

thats a nice paintjob

Thanks Cisco, hides a not so nice planking job beneath! 

[DB789]

Thanks for all the likes! 
 

Outer bulwarks glued and clamped to dry. They aligned very well with the ply. I focused on lining up the oar ports exactly as a tiny gap at the bottom between the bulwarks and white paint will be hidden by the main wales. The bulwarks are a little long, which I think is intentional and will need sanding at the stern - the prototype’s bulwarks appear similar in the instructions. 
Once fitted the false bulkhead ears were twisted off and any stumps sanded level with the false deck. 
The engraved deck was then fitted. This needed no sanding at the edges and only a tiny bit off the stern edge to get it to lie flat. 
Then the inner bulwarks were fitted, glued and clamped. These lined up well too. Again I focused on lining up the oar ports which does leave a bit of a gap at the bottom as described in the instructions and which will be covered up later with spirketting. 

I started to paint the inner bulwarks red before fitting, but decided that I’d do the second and third coats on the model and would need to mask up the deck given my propensity for getting paint everywhere! 

I also painted the beak head (think that’s the right term) black. Will need a little filling and more coats of paint.

Lastly, the daggerboards are ready and in position, but not glued. 

Next is cutting out the gunports. 

[DB789]

Cutting the gunports in the plywood with a razor saw was very straightforward. I may have very slightly notched the bottom edge in a couple of places, but it’s barely noticeable and will be covered by the rails later. 
Here she is with her teeth. 

I fully masked the desk to protect against my clumsiness with a paint brush or file. The gunports and oarport edges, whilst aligned needed some filing and a touch of filler to be smooth.

The inner sternboard was added and is an excellent fit. As elsewhere, I used pins in some of the holes to aid with alignment. 
The inner rails were added and then the inner bulwarks painted. 
Even with masking tape along the outside of the hull I found I got some seepage of the paint onto the outer wood of the hull by some of the gunports and oarports. I scraped this off with a scalpel whilst still wet. Z

Lastly for today the main wales were soaked in hot water and then clamped and pinned to the hull to dry for 24 hours, no glue at this stage. 

 

 

 

[mugje]

Man...those cannons were monsters...looks massive!   

[DB789]

Main wales painted black and glued in place. I used PVA with a clamp at the bow and pins. The instructions say to cut off and file away the excess on the pins, but I didn’t fancy my chances of getting a pin flush with the woodwork. Instead I pulled the pins out and used a touch of filler on the holes before  repainting which worked too. 

I have also added the lower of the two upper rails. 
Still some tidying to do at the stern. I will likely need a tiny bit of CA to get the bottom of the  wales to take the shape of the hull. 

All went smoothly except I slipped with the pin pushes and created a small divot in the white paint below which I’ve filled and will need to touch up the paint there. 

[ccoyle]

Looks pretty much like Chris' build progress photos -- which is a testament both to his design and your skill!

[DB789]

15 hours ago, ccoyle said:

Looks pretty much like Chris' build progress photos -- which is a testament both to his design and your skill!

Thanks Chris, it’s almost entirely Chris W’s amazing design. Certainly there’s some basic building skills to master, but so far on this boat it’s been hard to go far wrong due to the clever design, engraved locations for parts and highly detailed instructions and plans. Consequently, it’s actually a much easier hull to build than for example even Chris’s Alert where a little more is left to the builder to think through. There’s been very little ambiguity whilst building Adder so far which is a testament to how well thought out Chris’s models are now. 
 

The only exception to the ease of building has been Adder’s planking - mine wasn’t great but being fully painted doesn’t matter. Again, Chris’s design choice of the painted area being traditionally planked and the exposed bulwarks being engraved parts means you can be terrible at planking and still end up with a stunning model.  
 

I’ve not rigged a square rigged boat before, so have lots to learn and am intrigued to see to whether rigging will be equally clear and step-by-step.