Flying Cloud 1851 by hof00 - Mamoli - 1/96 - American clipper

[hof00]

Hi All,

I decided to put HMB Endeavor on-hold for now as I was not feeling "The Love" so much with this.

 

I have long been keen to get into the Flying Cloud, it's been in the cupboard fort a few years and it's t6ime to get into something completely new.

So, out with the box and reviewing plans/instructions.

Pretty early on, it was evident that the Italian Parts List was in need of translation. I have been working on a Spread Sheet this for a couple of days now and am at the stage where I can, very soon, make a start. (I have a few hundred other items to add to this....)

 

To get things in order immediately, I have employed the services of Custom Hobby Decals, Australia, to render decal for the Stern Decoration/Trail Board Name in place of the kit supplied white metal castings. (I am hoping that the final render for these will be ready in a day or two.)

 

I have also located some excellent reference material as well as some other bits and pieces. 

sobco.com/ship_model/fc/Flying_Cloud_plans_bradner.html

 

The kit is double POB, reasonably standard stuff.

I'll be looking to Cooper the Hull rather than using the kit supplied "Greenish" wooden plates.

 

 

 

This will be the first time that I will have attempted a Mamoli kit and I am looking forward to a Clipper to keep the Cutty Sark company.

 

Cheers....HOF

 

 

Photos and Spread Sheet if anyone has an interest:

Flying Cloud Parts List.xlsx

 

 

 

Edited April 24 by hof00

[S.Coleman]

I do like the Mamoli kits. They can make up into a nice model. The bow planking will be a sight easier that the Endeavour's bluff bow!  Good luck.

[Scottish Guy]

Good luck with the model, looking forward to it

 

Micha

[hof00]

15 hours ago, S.Coleman said:

I do like the Mamoli kits. They can make up into a nice model. The bow planking will be a sight easier that the Endeavour's bluff bow!  Good luck.

 

15 hours ago, Scottish Guy said:

Good luck with the model, looking forward to it

 

Micha

Thanks Gentlemen,

I have now made a start, albeit a slow start.

Checked off all bulkheads for sizing against the plans.

The 4 pieces that make up the Keel, (X2), Stem and Sternpost have been glued together and are under weights to ensure that they are nice and flat. (Hopefully.)

 

The two Keel pieces are 2.0mm different in width which does not bode well for the Bulkhead fit.... (I plan to add a strip of Lime to the bottom of the Keel to fix this discrepancy.

All joints for the above needed "Adjustment."

 

Going through the plans to translate really forced me to get very thorough with the component and build sequence.

I'll get some photos in the next day or two.

 

Cheers.... HOF.

[hof00]

Hi All,

Small update:

 

• Fixed Keel discrepancy
• Keel Doublers affixed

I decided that I'd put the Keel in the "Clamper" and teat fit the Bulkheads, to my surprise they slotted in place very well!! (Not all Bulkheads are dry fitted as yet as the Doubler clamps are in the way at the mo.)

 

There is a "Beam" that secures the Bulkheads, this is about 1.5mm too wide, I think that this doubles as the Mast Step.

I'll cut my own as a template and then machine the kit "Beam" once my template piece is the correct size.

 

The dry fit allows me to visualize/plan a little better.

 

A cursory look at the kit "Stock," it appears that the Ramin Dowels are cut to length, I haven't measured the components as yet. I am hoping that there will be extra length to allow me to machine these, if not, I'll have to find my own stock.

 

I'd be happy if anyone wants to "Chime In" regarding the First Planking.

The kit describes the first plank laid at the Very top Stern, (Creating the Stern Upper Bulwarks and terminating some point at the Bow.)

I have had a look, (You Tube), at the way Mr. Priske did his, he appears to have started First Planking at the Main Deck level.

(I guess it doesn't really matter all that much at the end of the day.)

 

Steve Priske also laid his Deck Planking on the False Decking, Decks installed after the Hull first Planking and inner Bulwarks completed. (The issue i have with that is how do you secure the Decks properly "Post" Hull Planking?

 

My experience with the Cutty Sark was the planking the False Deck "Prior" to Hull Planking was not an issue. (I am not going to "Treenail" the Decki8ng as at 1/96 I don't think you'd be able to see this detail.

 

 

Cheers.... HOF.

 

Photos:

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20 by hof00

[Rick310]

Nice start.  It will be fun to follow along!

Rick

[hof00]

7 hours ago, Rick310 said:

Nice start.  It will be fun to follow along!

Rick

Thanks Rick.

It's all a bit of a mystery at the mo. but seems to be coming together slowly.

Getting together my research material and considering/planning the next move. 🙂

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

[hof00]

Hi All,

Small update:

 

• Machined the longitudal Beam that stiffens the Hull, I had to shave 1.5mm off this.
• Another gap, this time on the rear Main deck and dealt with this issue also.

 

The Hull structure is looking a little better at this stage and various components are fitting better after a few "Tweaks."

No Bulwarks, etc. are affixed in place yet.

 

The mast material gives me a few mm in length at the Base of each mast, the length differs from Mast to Mast depending on the relation of Deck to the afore mentioned "Beam."

 

I scribed a line down the center of the Beam to give me a true centerline for Mast orientation.

The trick will be to get each Mast raked aft at 5.95". I am thinking a Brass rod at the end of each mast, offset forward and hole drilled in the Beam to "Step" the Masts. (I don't want to "Glue the Masts in place, I'd rather have them set-up, removeable with the Standing Rigging to hold them in place.)

 

Anyway, enough of me today.... 🙂

 

Cheers.... HOF.

 

Photos:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23 by hof00

[Rick310]

Nice neat work. Well done!

Rick

[hof00]

Thanks Rick,

I have just started.... 🙂

 

As stated in an alternative post regarding wood, there seems "Just" enough wood for Hull second planking and not much else....

Mamoli is not like the generous A/L kits....

I had a look through my stock  of spare wood and am reasonably confident that I now have enough material to complete satisfactorily.

Therefore, no progress today apart from ensuring Bulkheads are where they are supposed to be with respect to the base of the Keel. (This was a bit of a concern, initially, as a couple of Bulkheads do not contact the longitudal "Beam" by approx. 1.0 - 1.5mm No worries, I'll "Shim" these.)

 

I also placed a strake along the Hull in various places to ensure there are not going to be any issues with the Bulkhead positions/placement.

I have some lengths of Dowel that I will play with to get the masts "Stepped" correctly. (I'm still considering my options. (Removable Masts, or "Plug In" Masts are a definite "Must have" for this chap. 🙂)

 

Edit: Flying Cloud Parts List.xls updated on topic page of this thread for those that are interested. It is far from complete, I will update as I get more done.

 

Cheers....HOF.

Edited April 24 by hof00

[hof00]

HI All,

Small update:

 

I have been continuing working on Bulkhead depth/alignment.

The Centre Beam, Tanganika is extremely hard and inflexible, a good thing.

The kit instructions say that the center of the Bulkheads must meet this "Beam," however while the majority do, there are 3 - 4 that do not and have spaces under the Beam ranging from 0.5mm - 1.0mm

I have been agonizing about this discrepancy so decided to clip a couple of Planking Stakes on to the Hull.

With the Bulkheads firmly pushed into thier respective slots and the Beam secured with Velcro Cable Ties, the gaps remain.

 

The Planking Strakes lie well along the Hull with no bumps or hollows evident.

I also decided to clip a plank along the line of Bulkheads to gauge Deck Sheer.

If I move an offending Bulkheads up to meet the Beam, it throws out the afore mentioned Sheer.

 

I think I am now good with where the Bulkheads lie. 🙂

 

Next step is to place small strips at the outer edges of the Bulwarks to support the outer edges False Deck.

I am also working on calculating where on the central Beam, where the Masts will be stepped.

 

Cheers....HOF.

 

Photos:

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

[rwiederrich]

On 4/19/2024 at 7:45 PM, hof00 said:

Hi All,

Small update:

 

• Fixed Keel discrepancy
• Keel Doublers affixed

I decided that I'd put the Keel in the "Clamper" and teat fit the Bulkheads, to my surprise they slotted in place very well!! (Not all Bulkheads are dry fitted as yet as the Doubler clamps are in the way at the mo.)

 

There is a "Beam" that secures the Bulkheads, this is about 1.5mm too wide, I think that this doubles as the Mast Step.

I'll cut my own as a template and then machine the kit "Beam" once my template piece is the correct size.

 

The dry fit allows me to visualize/plan a little better.

 

A cursory look at the kit "Stock," it appears that the Ramin Dowels are cut to length, I haven't measured the components as yet. I am hoping that there will be extra length to allow me to machine these, if not, I'll have to find my own stock.

 

I'd be happy if anyone wants to "Chime In" regarding the First Planking.

The kit describes the first plank laid at the Very top Stern, (Creating the Stern Upper Bulwarks and terminating some point at the Bow.)

I have had a look, (You Tube), at the way Mr. Priske did his, he appears to have started First Planking at the Main Deck level.

(I guess it doesn't really matter all that much at the end of the day.)

 

Steve Priske also laid his Deck Planking on the False Decking, Decks installed after the Hull first Planking and inner Bulwarks completed. (The issue i have with that is how do you secure the Decks properly "Post" Hull Planking?

 

My experience with the Cutty Sark was the planking the False Deck "Prior" to Hull Planking was not an issue. (I am not going to "Treenail" the Decki8ng as at 1/96 I don't think you'd be able to see this detail.

 

 

Cheers.... HOF.

 

Photos:

 

 

 

 

Just reviewing the images……why in the world don’t the keel frames align properly, and why don’t the forward bulkheads fit within their pre deck slots along the waterways?  From a kit, this seams extremely disappointing……. Pointing to QC issues.     Or am I missing something?

Rob

[hof00]

20 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Just reviewing the images……why in the world don’t the keel frames align properly, and why don’t the forward bulkheads fit within their pre deck slots along the waterways?  From a kit, this seams extremely disappointing……. Pointing to QC issues.     Or am I missing something?

Rob

Thanks Rob,

Yup, right from the "Getgo" there were issues:

 

• Keel Frames differed in "Vertical" width by 2.0mm (I aligned the two pieces so that the slotted Bulkhead edge lined up and fixed the forward Keel frame post this with some strip wood.)
• Keys/dovetails? for all false Keel components required "Adjustment" for a reasonable fit
• Central beam required machining to fit comfortably into upper Bulkhead housings
• Bulkheads, (After a lot of testing/re-testing, checking/rechecking) proved to be "reasonable" but issues with the Ramin Center Beam, (As above)
• Main False Deck required strip wood fillers, Aft.

 

The only reason I have some strip wood clamped to the edge of the Bulkheads is so that I can gauge the lengthwise Deck Sheer as the False deck is quite "Stiff" and after all the issues experienced, I wanted to see a clearly discernable line, (When "Eyeballed" with reference to the plans. 🙂

 

The kit, thus far, has proved a little difficult.

 

(I am not sure if this was a "Monday morning" or a "late Friday afternoon," production.... 🙂)

 

On the positive side of things, it's really good and forces me to think carefully about things before getting the glue out!!

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

 

[hof00]

Hi All,

Small update:

 

• Placed small strips at the outer edges of the Bulwarks to support Main Deck Edges (Sheer)
• Finally worked out and implemented housings/Steps for Mast Bases.
• Received Decals for the Stern and Trail Boards (Custom Hobby Decals Australia)

Ok. My take on Mast Housings....

 

• Milled 4.0nn thick Rimu Ply, 23mm wide to fit into center Bulwark "Beam" housing, retaining the existing Tanganika Beam
• "Jacked-up" the Rimu Beam to lie underneath the False Deck
• False Deck now became the template for Mast hole locations.
• Drilled holes in the Rimy Ply for Masts
• Re-assemble and test

 

Note: The Rimu Ply Housing beam is cut into 3 sections, Fore, Main and Mizzen Masts. This is to facilitate setting Mast Rake; all Masts are supposed to be Raked at 5.95' Aft. The differences from 90" to the amount that the base of the Mast moves forward, (X Axis), to accommodate the rake/angle, is miniscule.... I have calculated at 4.0' (86')' as follows:

 

"X" Horizontal Axis

"Y" is vertical 90"(Beam to False Deck

 

• Fore:  X - 0.9mm Y -13.0mm Angle -86.0'
• Main: X - 0.5mm Y - 8.0mm Angle 86.0'
• Mizzen X - 1.6mm Y - 24.0mm Angle 86.0"'

(I will calculate at 85" also.)

So, when I am ready to glue everything, I just need to "Slide" the Rimu housing a fraction forward or backwards to set the masts at the correct angle.

I figured that it is much easier to "Shim" the housing beam from a known vertical reference point, Ie. Sterm Post/Bulkhead.

 

I think that I have achieved my goal of "Plug In" Masts.

 

Cheers....HOF.

 

Photos:

 

Edited April 29 by hof00

[jpalmer1970]

This looks like an interesting build Harry. I also like those decals ! Thanks for the details about where you got them from. 

[hof00]

3 hours ago, jpalmer1970 said:

This looks like an interesting build Harry. I also like those decals ! Thanks for the details about where you got them from. 

Thank you Jpalmer,

 I contacted CHD as I purchased my 1/200 Bismarck Decals from them.

 

After one "iteration" of thier render, I sent them a scan of what I wanted, inc. dimensions.

There were a few back and forth email but got there in the end.

The resulting render was really good.

 

The render, printing, shipping was AUD $56.00

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

[SighingDutchman]

You are making quick progress. Great work. Love the sleek lines of the ship! The rigging looks daunting though.... Will follow this build with interest.

[Mirabell61]

Nice progress Harry,

I like the clean framing work, looking foreward to your planking

 

Nils

[gak1965]

On 4/27/2024 at 6:46 PM, hof00 said:

Thanks Rob,

Yup, right from the "Getgo" there were issues:

 

• Keel Frames differed in "Vertical" width by 2.0mm (I aligned the two pieces so that the slotted Bulkhead edge lined up and fixed the forward Keel frame post this with some strip wood.)
• Keys/dovetails? for all false Keel components required "Adjustment" for a reasonable fit
• Central beam required machining to fit comfortably into upper Bulkhead housings
• Bulkheads, (After a lot of testing/re-testing, checking/rechecking) proved to be "reasonable" but issues with the Ramin Center Beam, (As above)
• Main False Deck required strip wood fillers, Aft.

 

The only reason I have some strip wood clamped to the edge of the Bulkheads is so that I can gauge the lengthwise Deck Sheer as the False deck is quite "Stiff" and after all the issues experienced, I wanted to see a clearly discernable line, (When "Eyeballed" with reference to the plans. 🙂

 

The kit, thus far, has proved a little difficult.

 

(I am not sure if this was a "Monday morning" or a "late Friday afternoon," production.... 🙂)

 

On the positive side of things, it's really good and forces me to think carefully about things before getting the glue out!!

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

You're doing a great job, but yikes, the keel difference and the slots to hold the keel sections together are awful. Maybe worth getting in contact with the Mamoli before you get too much further and see about a replacement? Are you at least confident that your now repaired keel is consistent with the expected size (e.g. they have a plan you can use to validate that it is correct)? I would just hate to find out after you've spent months that there is something else wrong.

 

Regards,

George

[rwiederrich]

4 hours ago, gak1965 said:

You're doing a great job, but yikes, the keel difference and the slots to hold the keel sections together are awful. Maybe worth getting in contact with the Mamoli before you get too much further and see about a replacement? Are you at least confident that your now repaired keel is consistent with the expected size (e.g. they have a plan you can use to validate that it is correct)? I would just hate to find out after you've spent months that there is something else wrong.

 

Regards,

George

If the keel is Wong, possibly the seats for the bulkheads could be compromised.  However , it looks like Harry has things under control at this point.   We’ll wait and see if the bulkheads all align when planking gets underway.   
For me, this is one particular reason why I scratch build.  But it’s not the end of the world. Anything can be fixed.   
 

Im following with great interest. 
 

Rob

[hof00]

13 hours ago, SighingDutchman said:

You are making quick progress. Great work. Love the sleek lines of the ship! The rigging looks daunting though.... Will follow this build with interest.

 

13 hours ago, Mirabell61 said:

Nice progress Harry,

I like the clean framing work, looking foreward to your planking

 

Nils

 

8 hours ago, gak1965 said:

You're doing a great job, but yikes, the keel difference and the slots to hold the keel sections together are awful. Maybe worth getting in contact with the Mamoli before you get too much further and see about a replacement? Are you at least confident that your now repaired keel is consistent with the expected size (e.g. they have a plan you can use to validate that it is correct)? I would just hate to find out after you've spent months that there is something else wrong.

 

Regards,

George

 

4 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

If the keel is Wong, possibly the seats for the bulkheads could be compromised.  However , it looks like Harry has things under control at this point.   We’ll wait and see if the bulkheads all align when planking gets underway.   
For me, this is one particular reason why I scratch build.  But it’s not the end of the world. Anything can be fixed.   
 

Im following with great interest. 
 

Rob

Gentlemen,

Thank your your "Likes" and comments, very much appreciated.

I am very much looking forward to Planking....

Firstly, I need to glue Keel/Bulkhead/Etc. together but not the False Decks at this stage., I'll utilize these to hold everything in line.

I have bisected all False Decks in preparation for the "King" Plank. Since the Decks are supposed to be Planked "Post" Hull/Bulwarks are completed. (Parity due to Bulkhead extensions.) Anyway, I really need to utilize a Steel Rule to get the "King Plank aligned correctly, esp. Main Deck.

 

On the subject of Deck Planking for this ship, can someone, @rwiederrich (Rob?), please give me some ideas about a Deck Planking "Butt Shift?

I was contemplating a four Butt Shift, 5/2/4/3/1 similar to Cutty Sark. (Deck Planking: 0.5mm X 3.0mm Tanganika)

 

Yup, I hear your concerns with the positioning of the bulkhead/Keel relationship.

I have those concerns also but I think things are not too bad here, I have placed "Strakes" along the Hull esp. at the turn of the Bilges, there do not appear to be any sags or bulges. Also, I think that the sheer of the Deck is good with respect to the Sheer Plan view.

(I intend to "Triple" check things before splashing any glue around.... 🙂)

 

Today, I turned my attention back to the Mast Housings/Steps.

One problem that was evident that the "Dummy Masts" were very difficult to locate in the Housing holes that I drilled out yesterday, Esp. the Main as the Mast penetrates below the Deck by only 8.0mm, Fore Mast was a little easier to insert at a depth of 13.0mm and the Mizzen, no real problem at 24.0mm

 

So, I adjusted things, I inserted a 9.0mm Brass sleeve to house the For and Main Mast Bases the 13.0mm and 8.0mm respectively, the Mizzen was given a small 7.0mm Sleeve, 4.0mm in thickness. The Masts now "Plug In" very nicely indeed!! (I can take a photo or two if anyone is interested.)

(The "Sleeves" will not "Pop" out as they are pretty much kept in place when the False Deck is on.)

(I am not going to glue the "Sleeves" in place as I need the tiny bit of play, Fore and Aft to set the rake of the Masts. (I have decided on a 5' rake on all Masts rather than the 5.95' given in the research material, maybe a bit of "Scale Effect" here? Anyway 5' is a nice consistent angle for setting the Tops/Cheeks/etc.🙂)

 

That's pretty much me for today,...

 

As mentioned earlier, thank you for looking in and please keep the comment coming,

 

Cheers and Regards

 

Harry.

 

 

 

 

 

[hof00]

Hi All,

Small update:

 

• Fine adjustments, (Many) on Hull structure
• Placed Planking Strakes along Hull to gauge Bulkhead positioning
• Fixed structure with rubber bands an cable tied lengthwise "Beam"
• Aliphatic Resin bead on all joints

 

False Decks are not glued as yet, there are a couple of fine adjustments required on the Main Mast Housing. (Photo)

I will leave everything to cure for a good few hours.

 

Cheers....HOF.

 

Photos:

 

 

[BobG]

Hello Harry, I just found your build log and I'm looking forward to following along. I love these clipper ships with their sleek lines. Good luck on the build. I'm sure you'll create a fine model.

[hof00]

Many thanks Chap.

 

Small update:

 

Had a couple of days pondering things, my major concern was why the False Deck reach edges of the Bulkheads, widthwise. (If you look closely at the photos above, you might be able to see this.)

My thought is that if not corrected it would seriously compromise fairing of the Bulkheads.

 

• Measured the width of the Deck at various points and it matches the part drawing
• Bulkheads not in error, all really well aligned, etc.

 

(While I pondered, I decided to complete the Mast Steps.)

 

I came to the realization that I was certainly not going to adjust Bulkhead width, so I resolved to add some Strip wood on the Deck between Bulkhead positions.

The required width ranges from 0.5mm to 2.0mm depending on how far forward the Deck position is. (Strips are 1.5mm in thickness to match False Deck material.)

So far, a much better result. (There are some positions that may require further investigation. 🙂)

 

This kit is certainly not a Laser cut offering!!

 

I'll hopefully get some photos tomorrow.

 

Cheers....HOF.

 

 

 

[Rick310]

Coming along nicely.  I’ve had to spend much time thinking through the various steps on my Flying Fish build.

Rick

[hof00]

8 hours ago, Rick310 said:

Coming along nicely.  I’ve had to spend much time thinking through the various steps on my Flying Fish build.

Rick

Thanks Rick,

Nice to realize I'm not going insane.... 🙂

This build really gets me thinking.

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

[Wawona59]

Hi Harry,

I just found your Flying Cloud Build log.  I'm surprised with the issues you are having with the keel parts not matching which then affects the bulkheads, etc.  I agree that this looks like a QC issue but you've got it sorted out.  One last thought, is there possibly any warp or twist in the keel or bulkheads which could be another cause of your fit issues? Have you considered installing filler blocks between the bulkheads to help assure they are equally space P & S and parallel?

 

You are doing a great job and it looks like your Flying Cloud is now coming along nicely.  I will be following along with interest.  I'm expecting to resume my Flying Fish project soon after a long, unplanned hiatus.

 

[hof00]

1 hour ago, Wawona59 said:

Hi Harry,

I just found your Flying Cloud Build log.  I'm surprised with the issues you are having with the keel parts not matching which then affects the bulkheads, etc.  I agree that this looks like a QC issue but you've got it sorted out.  One last thought, is there possibly any warp or twist in the keel or bulkheads which could be another cause of your fit issues? Have you considered installing filler blocks between the bulkheads to help assure they are equally space P & S and parallel?

 

You are doing a great job and it looks like your Flying Cloud is now coming along nicely.  I will be following along with interest.  I'm expecting to resume my Flying Fish project soon after a long, unplanned hiatus.

 

Hi Wawona,

Many thanks for looking in and your advice, much appreciated.

I too was surprised at the issues I am faced with, no matter, just something to work through..... 🙂

Yup, I hear you regarding warped Keel/etc. (I have been very mindful of issues like these. I am pretty confident that things are "True."

I did contemplate filler blocks and have attempted these a few years ago but was not a fan.

 

Tomorrow, I'll get some photos loaded inc. a couple of the Hull structure

I also hope to complete the Deck "Errors" and have a play with the Tanginika Decking material to work out Butt shifts and what medium would look best for Caulking. (Pencil/Sharpie)

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

 

[hof00]

Hi All,

Small update:

 

• Completed Deck width repair issues
• Triple checked overall Hull alignment

All Decks look and fit much better.

Port Side, Bulkhead #7 out of symmetry by 0.5mm (Mid Bulkhead) to 1.0mm (Bottom Bulkhead. Two laminations 0.5mm X 4.0mm glued and faired into bulkhead.

Much better, I could see the discrepancy, it was really bugging me.... 🙂

(Planking Strake Port and Starboard to double check and all seems o.k.)

 

So, I don't know if I'll do too much more today.

 

Things to do next:

• Bow "Filler Blocks
• "Play" with Deck Planking - "Off Ship"

 

Cheers....HOF.

 

Photos:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10 by hof00

[rwiederrich]

She's moving along nicely.  You've overcome some real issues with the alignment of the bulkheads....you've done well.

 

Faring out the bulkheads will be fun and the blocking too.

 

Following with interest.

 

Rob