H.M.S. Triton Cross Section 1:24 by Tim

[42rocker]

Daniel

I'll skip the "gangnam style" crap due to one of his first songs about the US of A. He can play for the Washington crowd but I'll live without "gangnam style" grap. Sounds harsh but so were his words for the US of A, he said that he was sorry but that did not cut it in my book.

Yes, blame was placed on those that I blame for the 1:24 scale. As I posted in another thread else where, chocks are on the list of things to add. I'll only add them to a small area that I plan to leave open to show off such detail.

Pete38 has done a great service to all of us by re-posting those files and some items that he downloaded and put together. Thanks Pete38 and Thanks to the site hosts for doing this.

 

Later 42rocker

Edited March 5, 2013 by 42rocker

[42rocker]

Well a small update I should be making wood dust. But been making aluminum shavings instead. Resizing a piece of bar stock to try to finish making a thickness sander. Well heading towards the goal of getting ready to cut some wood up.

 

Later 42rocker

[42rocker]

So here I am after fighting with three printers and finally winning with one of them. I just finished printing over 150 pages of plans in 1:24.
By redoing the plans to 1:24 and making it so they would print on a printer that I own on legal 8.5x14 paper I had a fight. All total about 6 to 7 hours redoing the plans then printing them and still having to redo few where I got stuff to close to the edge I spent about 4 hours tonight finally getting the printing done. In 1:24 sometimes it took 4 or 5 pages to do what it only took one in 1:48. Still office depot roughly quoted over $500.00 to print what I did tonight. And if I need to redo something or print another one I'm set and ready. Where when someone double checks their 1:48 print they see if 4 scale feet equals 1 inch in 1:24 4 scale feet equals 2 inches. Happy to say everything came out fine.
If you want to know how to redo prints like that from one scale to another pm me.
Next step is to do what others have done before me. Label everything and cut the paper apart and get ready to glue down and start cutting. I guess that I should get some wood ready first.
More tomorrow night.
In looking at the plans all I can say again is Thanks to everyone that drew them up.

Later 42rocker

[Boccherini]

Glad you finally overcame the technology. Can't wait to see the extra detail at your scale. Btw, do you have copies of The Fully Framed Model? They are a great reference.

 

Regards,

Grant.

[harvey1847]

Set, ready and Go!!

 

Here´s a ruler at 1:24, hope it will help you...When print the ruler in the scale box just put NONE.

Where when someone double checks their 1:48 print they see if 4 scale feet equals 1 inch in 1:24 4 scale feet equals 2 inches.

2 feet at 1:24 = 1 inch

4 feet at 1:48 = 1 inch.

 

the plan at 1:48 fill completed an A4 (297x210mm) (I do not Know the ANSI size you have there in USA) and at 1:24 which is exactlly the double will fill an A2 (594x420mm) and an A2 is FOUR A4´s...

 

We´re all waiting you to make some dust so we can start to blame you!!

 

Best wishes!

 

 

Daniel.

24 to 1 ruler A4.pdf

[Pete38]

Way to go 42Rocker, happy you got everything printed out. Can't wait to see the sawdust flying. 

 

Just had a thought, at the prices the office store was going to charge I should have printed the plans and you buy me a air ticket to Florida to deliver them    Only about 25 degrees here now, bet its warmer there.

Anyway looking forward to the build.

[42rocker]

Grant

"""Btw, do you have copies of The Fully Framed Model?""" no I don't believe that I do, who what where is the next question. If you think that it would help out some info please on where to get it. Thanks

 

Pete38

I'll have to check out that weather of yours. Like in about 30 days, I'm planning on doing some camping just a few miles North of you. Warmer and dry weather would be nice as I'm planning on tent camping. Any good places to get wood at in your area, need some cherry and a few others of course.

 

harvey1847

As I stated I had to completely redo the plans. I used photoshop and took each frame and component plan and all the other plans and made a new "page" or two or three or four at 150 dpi, which cause items to double in size when they are transfered from 300 dpi (provided plans dpi size). Then I moved each and every single drawn item by cutting and pasting or whatever means needed. I transfer them to a paper size called legal which is 8.5 x 14 which is a  common size paper which I can buy anywhere and all of my printers print on, some better than others. As far as my Blame game, it can only be used if I do something Great which causes someone else to follow me. I would like to think that I could do something that might cause followers but I don't believe that it will happen. Thanks for the 1:24 ruler, but one of the things that you should do when you transfer the items is to transfer the 1:48 scale ruler on every pdf so everyone of my new prints (over 150) has a 1:24 scale on it. As far as saw dust goes I made some in 1:48 in order to get the plans. Scrap wood now that I'll use for something sometime I'm sure. If nothing else got to try out that sherline rabbit cutting idea.

 

So I'm starting over again in 1:24. Hoping to clear an area later tonight after work and cut a few test pieces tomorrow before I use any good wood. The frames at 1:24 will be 3/8 inches thick (single Fame), the doubled sister frame will be a total of 3/4 inch thick. Don't have any wood ready to go in 3/8 inch thickness yet. So taking basswood and red gum and boxwood down to the correct thickness will need to be done. That said next step for me is to label each paper frame part before I start cutting the paper apart. So it's label parts, then redo wood to needed sizes then cut it down to size and then find an area large enough to lay things out to work on. Remember finally size  is double the width and double the length of the plans, except Pete38's of course. So today label and clean out an area. Tomorrow resize wood and cut paper and glue it down. I had hoped to be at this stage a few days ago but really had a fight with the printers. Always remember the term Baseball bat, makes a fellow think of things when dealing with printers.. LOL of course..

 

Again Thanks to those that made the plans. a lot of work went into them. And the mods of the site that keep track of everything.

All ready I'm thinking of a few questions to start asking so please be ready. That's if I can't work it out of course.

 

Later 42rocker

Edited March 5, 2013 by 42rocker

[Boccherini]

The Fully Framed Model from seawatchbooks.com

 

Regards,

Grant.

[Pete38]

No place around me close to get wood, unless you know someone that has some put back in the barn. As far as weather, this is Kentucky, stick around for 5 minutes and it will change. Hope to see some sawdust soon. 

[42rocker]

Small update, Have labeled all of the parts on all of the plans. Learned and reviewed a few things while doing that.
After a long look I found some Bloodwood that I was given over 8 or 9 years ago. 2 pieces, 1 is 3 3/4 x 4 x 6 inches and the other is 3 3/4 x 4 x 9 inches. The fellow that gave them to me stated that they used to use this wood as ship ballast. He said that he got it from a pile that they were getting rid of at the shipyard in Tampa, Fla.
Well thinking about using it for the keelson for some color, as it is to short (need 10 inches, 1:24) I was thinking about using a joint somewhere. The full ship plans show a joint in the area. Need to look at the plans and track it down and go from there.
Cut a test piece of wood on the table saw and was getting ready to rip it down to 1/2 inch with the bandsaw to get ready to then run through the thickness planner to a final 3/8 inch to see how the finish would be. But several things got in the way. Try again tomorrow. Really need more time in the day and less other things to do, like work, wait that pays the bills, o'well.

Later 42rocker

[Pete38]

Can't wait to see the bloodwood.

That kinda cool that you will be using wood that actually was in a ship itself

 

[mtaylor]

If there's enough.. the bloodwood should make nice looking cannon carriages.

[rummy]

Go Rocker,we will be your cheerleaders.

 It seems like I have been making a lot of bloodwood lately.Using my own blood.   Larry

[42rocker]

It seems that I always put a little blood in every one of my projects.

Today was crazy what was planned was changed in every way. Tomorrow I'll move the dust collection system to the garage from this house that I've been building. Then redo the dust collection system to the table saw and band saw. Then if everything goes well then I'll try to cut some test pieces.

Pics of the blood wood to follow tomorrow.

 

Later 42rocker

[42rocker]

I hate my updates at this time. Still getting everything setup. Found the wood, just still redoing the shop. Going to fill a garbage can with "stuff" tomorrow. Looking for my 4 inch flex hose so I can hook it to the table saw after I clean up a lot of loose wood dust that is.

Hopefully a better update next time.

 

Later 42rocker

[russ]

Rocker:

My advice is to get the shop the way you want it and then you can have some fun. Looking forward to seeing more progress.

 

Russ

[42rocker]

Small labeling error found in plans. Error is only labeling will not effect anything on the builds. It's only an error if you are comparing cross sections frames to complete ship frames. While checking something else out I found a small labeling error. According to what I have seen we are working on frames 5 through C. See CrossSectionFrames481 pdf (needs . ) Look at left frame #5, no gun port and 90 degree area at top. Now look in the complete ship pdf's and find TritonDOF@48-1 pdf (needs . ) Look for frames 5 - C, notice how everything is shifted one to the left or right, which is up to which plans you call correct. As stated this is just a small labeling error in what are a great set of plans. How did I find this error, well I guess that I looked at to many Echo cross section builds and said I would like to add scarfs and scarf chocks into my build. Asked myself were there any in the plans for this area or not. Looked at complete ship plans TritonKeelPlan@48-1 pdf (needs . ) and it shows several scarfs in the plans. So my next question was where, as the Disposition Of Frames plan labels the frames but does not show the scarf joints. So printed all of the above and checked the "scale in feet" diagrams, the same so did the overlay trick to find out where the scarfs joints would be. Found that there is a keel Scarf joint at the right hand side (or bow side) and a keelson scarf joint near the left side (or stern). Also there was another scarf joint in the false keel under the keelson scarf joint. In double checking I found the labeling error. I also found later an easy way to find out where the cross section is. If you have an idea about where it should be look for how the spacing around the frames is. The frames around the gunports are close, then you have a wider space before the single stand along like frame. This now gives me an idea on where the cross section lies on the complete ship. Also went looking and found one of the first books that I bought that completely changed my thoughts on model ship building. "Historic Ship Models" by Mondfeld. Needed to find the word for the keel joint, scarf. After buying that book and reviewing it I gave up buying kits. Looked about and never went back. One of the better finds was this website and the MSB website and of course this great cross section.
Still have to ask which frame labeling is correct. The cross section plans or the complete ship plans??
Well just looked at frame 5 in the complete ship plans and it has a notch on one of the sistered frames in two places for a gun port. Therefore there is a chance that the frames are labeled one way in the complete ship plans and one frame different in the cross section plans.Just pulled up frame 5 from both sets of plans and they are different. Just did the same for frame 2 and different again. Did final check on frame C and different again. I guess the best thing is not to compare and just remember that the two sets of plans are labeled different.

Later 42rocker
 

[russ]

The two sets of plans are slightly different. Do not try and compare them one to the other. Changes were made in the cross section plans to accomodate the idea of a distinct cross section model. It was never intended that you should be able to use the plan sets interchangeably.

 

Russ

[42rocker]

Russ

Thank you for that super fast answer. I spent a few hours reviewing and double checking to make sure I was right about what I said. Now you cleared it up in a few minutes. Thanks.

 

Now to work on how to make those scarfs and chock's. Thinking that is still working on getting ready to start cutting.

 

Later 42rocker

[russ]

Rocker:

If you can add the chocks and scarphs, by all means have a go. We purposely omitted them in the cross section to make it a good beginner's project. We figured that a butt joint was easier to to make and so it would decrease the learning curve a bit.

 

Russ

[42rocker]

Russ

I really like the ideas and goals of the project and under the planks of my future build you will find butt joints. But the frames that I'm not going to plank I'm going to try for a few chocks. After looking at the keels of the Echo group photos I just have to give it a try. What the heck if I fail I can always drop back and do the keel without. Now after seeing the outside hull planking by Grant  "Boccherini" I'm going to be thinking about that also.

What the heck I can dream big, right?

 

Later 42rocker

[russ]

Absolutely. Give it a go and see what you can accomplish.

 

Russ

[42rocker]

Well looked at Mondfeld's Historic Ship Models and was checking scarf length and style and the book said that the length of the scarf was normally 4 times the width of the keel. So for me in 1:24 keel is going to be 5/8 inch wide so 5 x 4 = 20 => 20/8 or 2 and 1/2 inches long. So with a heel of 10 inches the scarf joint will be about 2 and 1/2 inches. For normally used 1:48 scale 1 and 1/4 inches long. Think that I'll use the basic one on page 74 - 6th figure down. When I try to cut them I'll try to do a show and tell with pictures and a few words.

More reading and getting ready. Saw dust soon I hope.

 

Later 42rocker

[harvey1847]

we want saw dust!  we want saw dust! we want saw dust! we want saw dust! we want saw dust! we want saw dust!

 

Is an old sold song that I repeat myself when cutting the frames. Hope will help you. The lyric is quite easy...

 

 

Happy journey and happy weekend in advance!

 

 

Daniel.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Rocker,

 

I think that Russ has a great idea. I build a few frames of the section as single frames for training.

 

For example I added my modified drawing for frame 0.

 

@Mark, Joss

Please let me know, if I should remove the attachement.

FRAME-00.pdf

[Long9Ron]

Nice looking frame Christian. Wish mine were as nice. 

[42rocker]

Well it's not mine either, hope mine turn out that nice also.

 

Later 42rocker

[42rocker]

I hate bad updates. But I'm alive and doing well, no problems. Finally cleaned out and got the table saw hooked back up to the dust vacuum. Brought over a plank of ParMarfin 6 x 1 x 48 inch and some popular 8/4 x 4/4 x 24 inch and some basswood 8/4 x 4/4 x 48 inch. Cleaned the blade and did a few test cuts, old pine, then some popular I was thinking about building with, then did 2 passes on the basswood. Hid the ParMarfin on the other side of the shop.. Well I'm thinking new blade, adjust the fence. Or some of the other ideas I've been thinking of. So while making saw dust I'm still at square one. I'll get there just not today. Hope that you had a good build day.

Later 42rocker

[Pete38]

Keep chugging along there Rocker, You will eventully get it the way you want and be making sawdust and building.  Half the fun is just getting there.

[mtaylor]

It went flying across the room???   Check the fence.  If it's closer to the back of the blade then the front, it'll pinch and grab and fling it.  Also, make sure the blade is just tad above the wood. That's what it usually is when I send wood into the next county.