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Posted (edited)

Making the small chainplates for the backstays was a new challenge. The kit supplies a somewhat thick “strip” of brass that I first drilled two holes in (on the strip). I regularly heated (with a long lighter) the end I was working on, but it still took a while to drill through with my pin vise. I then drilled the top hole again with a wider drill bit. Then attached the strip in my vise to shape them half round at the top, and then cut to length in my mini miter box. I filed the cut. Then sanded with fine grit sandpaper to remove the oxidation from heating the metal.  
 

The kits came with pins (for the bottom smaller hole) but I’m using the pins that came with my Sherbourne (they’re thinner and the same color of brass). 

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Edited by palmerit
Posted (edited)

The instructions for the blocks were a little confusing. Early in the instructions, it says “only two of these have a loop at one end and a hook at the other”.  On first reading, I thought only two have hooks since the previous strops I had made (for the Pram and Smack) had loops. But then later in the next column it said “for the five blocks with only a hook …” so clearly, there are two blocks with a loop and a hook and five blocks with only a hook. 

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Edited by palmerit
Posted
Posted (edited)

Preparing the sail. Painted it after taping it with a slurry of glue and water to stiffen the fibers. Because with my Pram my smaller cutting mat left green stains on the sail (Model Expo is sending a new one), before I taped this one down, I put down some plastic (Saran) wrap taped around the mat. I hope that works better. 
 

The reef points are short lengths of line that will be glued to the sails. To stiffen them, I cut some lengths of line, painted them with the slurry, and hung them from my table, using some clips to weight them. We’ll see how they are tomorrow evening. 

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Edited by palmerit
Posted
Posted (edited)

Finished the sails. Just need to add the reef points to the other side of the main sail. 

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Edited by palmerit
Posted

I was able to attach the main sail to the main mast.
 

But I was really struggling to figure out how to attach the sail to the gaff and the boom. The main instructions are pretty spartan. The appendix explanations are incomplete. They kind of describe the lashings. But don’t describe the lacing. 
 

Then I looked at the instructions for my Pram. I hadn’t finished that yet because I was waiting for a new piece of sail material to arrive from Model Expo. It just arrived today. I looked back at the instructions for the Pram and the description of how to add the sail were much more complete. Now that I have a new sail, I’ll finish the Pram, then turn to the Smack. 

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Posted

More progress on the sail. Learned some things after finishing my Pram. 

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Posted
Posted (edited)

For my next model with rigging, I'm going to do some more research on knots. This kit suggested double half-hitches everywhere. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, if the line is just too thick, but the knots seemed large. And my understanding is that you'd really never even have knots on a ship. The knots serve their purpose on the model, but a bunch of huge knots just seems wrong.

 

I also need to research - if I'm using knots - how to get them to be snug when I'm try to get them up against a whole (e.g., for the parral beads along the boom).

Edited by palmerit
Posted

Speaking of parral beads. This model recommends them but does not supply them. I ended up ordering ordering a multipack for around $15 from amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CD19WZZC?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

It came with small containers with several sizes (from 6/0 to 15/0). I probably have enough "seed beads" to last me multiple lifetimes.

 

I'm sure I could have found a bead store someplace in town. But it was just easier to buy a small pack and now I have them.

 

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, palmerit said:

For my next model with rigging, I'm going to do some more research on knots. This kit suggested double half-hitches everywhere. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, if the line is just too thick, but the knots seemed large. And my understanding is that you'd really never even have knots on a ship. The knots serve their purpose on the model, but a bunch of huge knots just seems wrong.

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Far from it! I think your rigging looks very fine indeed. But you are right that a lot of half-hitches and overhand knots look too bulky.

 

First off: I'd recommend starting your reading with Ashley's Book of Knots. The first chapter contains more wisdom about traditional cordage than you'll find anywhere else, while the rest of the tome presents (literally) thousands of knots used on shipboard. There are many other works, some more practical, others more historical. But Ashley's will give you the fundamentals to build on.

 

Next: A sailing ship has many, many knots (though pedants like to fuss over when and where a complex twisting of fibres should be called a "knot" and where it should be something else, such as a "bend"). However, full-scale rigging also uses a lot of splices and seizings, which are much neater than a bunch of half-hitches.  Neater but very, very challenging at 1:24, let alone smaller scales!

 

For anything from rope represented at 1:10 up to seizing twine used aboard a (full-scale) sailing dinghy, I find that tuck spices can be useful: Pass the full thickness of the free end under a single stand and repeat, instead of opening out the strands and passing them in turn. At 1:24, eyes can be formed by a crude seizing actually formed like a whipping, without the frapping turns of a proper seizing. (It could even be finished to look like a spliced eye with a serving over the splice!) I find it best to use a West Country whipping: Pass very fine thread where you want to seize an end to make an eye, centre the work at the mid-length of the thread, tie half a reef knot around the parts forming the eye and pull tight, then pass the ends of the thread around the other side of the work and tie another half of a reef knot, bring the ends back to the front, tie again ... and keep going until you are satisfied. Finish with a reef knot, dab of white glue, then cut off the ends of the thread. The great thing with the West Country, rather than a common whipping, when working at scale is that the first couple of knots stabilize the work, after which it is a whole lot easier to proceed.

 

Beyond that, I'd say get imaginative. I've just represented the Mathew Walker knots on my dory's stern becket by tucking each strand once as though starting a back splice, then bringing those strands back over the knot so formed, pulling them together and cutting off short. Crude, ugly and bulky – but much nicer than the overhand knots recommended in Model Shipway's instructions, while being far, far easier than an actual Mathew Walker!

Edited by Kenchington
Posted (edited)

Slow and steady progress on the rigging and sails. 

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Edited by palmerit
Posted

This is a model that'll have a bunch of rope coils near the various tie-offs of lines. I made a poor attempt at rope coils on my Pram - which basically just meant that I stiffened the rope a bit with a white glue slurry so it lay a bit inside the boat, not that naturally, and certainly not in a coil. That one only had a couple of ropes because the rigging was so much simpler - and because I had inadvertently cut a third rope short at the cleat not thinking there'd be extra length coiled below. And the photos on the Model Shipways instructions are fuzzy and not always complete.

 

I want to try some ways of doing a rope coil on the Smack. I'm gathering that some people do the rope coils completely off model as an independent coil and then kind of just glue the actual rigging line underneath or something to look like it's a continuous line. I think that approach would definitely be useful if trying to tie off some of the more intricate hanging bundles of line that I've seen on some builds. The Smack doesn't have a place to hang line, so it's just rope coils I think. I'm going to try to do the coils on the actual line.

 

I've linked below a few build logs and posts showing how to do rope coils. If someone has another pointer to add to the list, please let me know. I won't be getting to do the actual coils probably until the weekend since I have more rigging to do, but I'll be reading and research a bit over the next few days. Again, these are just for coils that would lay on a deck or a bench, like I'll do on the Smack, not hanging rope coils - there are a bunch of posts for doing that in various styles.

 

 

Posted

I'm curious about whether neat spirals are more common (on models or boats/ships) or if "garden hose" kinds of circles of rope are more common.

 

The neat spirals seem to require a pin at the center and then spiraling around (using plastic of some sort as the base, perhaps with a piece of plastic on top, spiraling around, securing with something like shellac or glue). The "garden hose" loops would seem to be something you could do around a small dowel (that then has shellac or white glue applied, taking it off the dowel before it dries complete and sticks to the dowel).

 

Don't know if people have thoughts. I'm not necessarily trying for a perfect match to the real world, just wondering what approach looks better, and maybe it depends on the kind of model.

Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, palmerit said:

The "garden hose" loops would seem to be something you could do around a small dowel (that then has shellac or white glue applied, taking it off the dowel before it dries complete and sticks to the dowel).

I did the "garden hose"‐ type loops on my dory, which I modified to include a sail. To make them, I wrapped the string around a plastic brush bristle protector tube, as the white glue didn't really stick to it. 

 

As for whether to go with simpler loops or complex coils, I suppose it depends on the effect you're going for--a yacht or a workboat? A useful source may be the many photographs at the following link of Friendship sloops (which are quite similar to the Muscongus Bay smack), both working sloops and yachts:

https://penobscotmarinemuseum.historyit.com/search-interfaces/search/digital-collection/0/1/1/1?rq[0]=8639&ip=1

 

(You can also search at that site for sloops in general or for Muscongus Bay, but my impression was that most of the clearest photos were of Friendship Sloops.)

Edited by JacquesCousteau
Posted

Palmerit, I built jigs and tried to mimic the size and the shape I was going to be putting them on. 

Current builds: 

Le Martegaou- 1:80 - Billing Boats


Back on the shelf: 

Gretel - Mamoli

Nonsuch 30 - 1:24 - Model Shipway

 

Completed builds:

Mini Oseberg no 302 -Billing Boats

Sea of Galilee boat

Lowell Grand Banks dory,         Norwegian sailing pram

Muscongus bay lobster smack

Peterboro Canoe- Midwest

Captain John Smith’s shallop - Pavel Nikitin

Chesapeake double kayak

Posted
1 hour ago, Bryan Woods said:

I built jigs and tried to mimic the size and the shape I was going to be putting them on

Do you have photos of the jigs or can you point me to them if they were in a build log?

Posted (edited)

This looks just like the seating area of the Smack, with a loop of rope on the seat. Useful to see the style and the scale. 

 

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Edited by palmerit
Posted

Here is one I made to hang down straight. After it’s dry I push out the dowel to release the bottom loops. Maybe you could modify it like this. You’ll need to pick the size of clothes pin that will fit the coils you need.

 

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Those flat coils I just patiently stick them down on painter tape and dab glue when it starts getting out of control. Then after it dries I go a little farther. I coat it completely when I’m done. Usually mess with it  when I first set down, then it’s easier to put aside unfinished when I have other things to do:-)

Current builds: 

Le Martegaou- 1:80 - Billing Boats


Back on the shelf: 

Gretel - Mamoli

Nonsuch 30 - 1:24 - Model Shipway

 

Completed builds:

Mini Oseberg no 302 -Billing Boats

Sea of Galilee boat

Lowell Grand Banks dory,         Norwegian sailing pram

Muscongus bay lobster smack

Peterboro Canoe- Midwest

Captain John Smith’s shallop - Pavel Nikitin

Chesapeake double kayak

Posted

I've seen some logs and posts and videos recommending beeswax. Is that recommended for coils? Or used also with glue? Or instead of glue? I saw a Tagliamare YouTube video on doing hanging rope coils and he recommended using beeswax (actually I think I've seen that conservators wax is preferred because of its pH).

Posted
5 hours ago, palmerit said:

I'm curious about whether neat spirals are more common (on models or boats/ships) or if "garden hose" kinds of circles of rope are more common.

Despite being common on models, those "neat spirals" are not coils at all. They are "Flemish fakes" and they're a terrible way to abuse rope. They have a place on the foredecks of yachts, as a decorative element, and maybe elsewhere as suitably nautical rope mats. But no seaman would ever treat running rigging like that on a (full-size) vessel. 

 

Trevor

Posted

Finished my Smack. 
 

The rigging was definitely a challenge on this one. The instructions weren’t always the clearest and the rope isn’t the greatest. And it was certainly a step up from the Pram. 
 

I had some challenges with the brittania metal in places. It’s used for some of the rigging and the hole in those parts is too small (or the rope too thick) so I had to bore out one of them a bit. While I thought there was more than enough metal left, just a tiny bit of tension on the rigging broke one of the pieces. I could have tried to craft a new piece (or wait to order a replacement) but I just superglued the line back on. I’ll face that side to the wall. 
 

I definitely struggled with the rope coils after the rigging tie offs. I tried a few different approaches, which is why all the coils look so different. Next model with coils I’m going to have to research approaches some more because I wasn’t happy with anything I tried. It was the first time in this new hobby that I was getting frustrated. 

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  • The title was changed to Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack by palmerit - FINISHED - Model Shipways - 1:24
Posted

Great job, congratulations.    :cheers:

Bob  M.

"Start so you can Finish!" 

In progress:

Astrolabe 1812 - Mantua 1:50; 

In queue:

Pegasus - Amati 1:64 

Completed:

The Dutchess of Kingston - 1:64 Vanguard Models 🙂 
Santa Maria - 1:64, La Pinta - 1:64, La Nina - 1:64, Hannah Ship in a Bottle - 1:300, The Mayflower - 1:64, Viking Ship Drakkar -1:50 all by Amati. King of the Mississippi - Artesania Latina - 1:80  Queen Anne's Revenge - Piece Cool - 1:300  The Sea of Galilee Boat - Scott Miller - 1:20

Posted

Great looking model. Nice job.  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert Chenoweth

 

Current Build: Maine Peapod; Midwest Models; 1/14 scale.

 

In the research department:

Nothing at this time.

 

Completed models (Links to galleries): 

Monitor and Merrimack; Metal Earth; 1:370 and 1:390 respectively.  (Link to Build Log.)

Shrimp Boat; Lindbergh; 1/60 scale (as commission for my brother - a tribute to a friend of his)

North Carolina Shad Boat; half hull lift; scratch built.  Scale: (I forgot).  Done at a class at the NC Maritime Museum.

Dinghy; Midwest Models; 1/12 scale

(Does LEGO Ship in a Bottle count?)

 

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