18 ft Cutter by - Dr PR - Vanguard Models - 1:64

[Dr PR]

I need a small boat for my Albatros topsail schooner build. I have made small boats from scratch before and it is a lot of fun. But back then it was the only alternative - there were no small boat kits. This time I decided to use one of Vanguard's small boat kits. The 18 ft cutter is the smallest they make.

 

Rather than bury this kit build in the log for the schooner where most people would never find it, I wanted to start a log just for this kit. I asked the forum administrators where to post this build log - there is no section for general small kits like these boats and boat fittings. I was told to put it in with ship kit builds, in the appropriate period. I asked Vanguard what period this boat would have been used and it was used from about 1785 to 1815. So it could have gone into the 1751 to 1800 log.

 

My schooner model is 1:48 scale, and I need a boat about 3 to 3 1/2 inches (76 to 89 mm) long to hang under the stern davits. The Vanguard 18 foot cutter is about 3.4 inches (86 mm) so it is the right size. At 1:48 it will be a 13.5 foot boat - think of it as a 14 foot cutter that has shrunk a bit over time. I looked in W. E. May's The Boats of Men-of-War and the basic cutter design appears to be the same for all cutters of the 14 - 18 foot length. So I don't plan to try to rescale any of the pieces.

 

The kit comes in a small plastic bag. You have to go to the Vanguard web site to find the instructions in a PDF file.

 

 

It contains a 2 mm MDF board, a 1 mm pear sheet and a 0.72 mm pear sheet. These are laser cut. A 0.36 mm brass photo etch sheet contains many small detail pieces.

 

 

 

 

After reading through the instructions I decided to prepare some of the photo etch parts first. Four of the pieces are deck and gratings The instructions tell how to make simulated wood grain paint for the deck boards but I painted them with the same brown I used on the bulwarks of the schooner.

 

 

 

 

Two small pieces fit together to make the boat anchor. The instructions say to glue them together but I soldered them. They make a very nice anchor!

 

The mast bracket is a very small piece that must be bent to fit one of the thwarts.

 

I used Birchwood Casey Brass Black to blacken the anchor and mast bracket.

 

I will be building this a bit at a time to take a break from rigging the ratlines on the schooner.

Edited April 17 by Dr PR
corrected log title

[Dr PR]

Here is part two of the cutter build. The 2 mm MDF board contains a base for the assembly and the bulwarks. I used a hobby knife to cut the small tabs that hold the laser cut pieces in the carrier board. They came out easily. Each piece is labeled so it can be identified in the instructions. The instructions are clearly written and easy to follow.

 

 

 

 

The first step is to assemble the bulkheads on the base. The bulkheads have tabs that fit snugly into holes in the base. The positions on the base are labelled with the corresponding bulkhead number.

 

THE BULKHEADS ARE NOT GLUED INTO THE BASE.

 

Most of the bulkhead pieces will be removed after the planking is in place so you don't want to glue them to everything!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next you must remove the keel, transom (stern bulkhead) and bulkhead C14 from the 1 mm pear sheet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I departed from the instructions a bit here. They say to put the keel in place on the bulkheads and then glue the transom onto the keel. But I could see there would be a restricted work area for gluing the transom in place if the keel was positioned on the bulkheads. I wanted to attach the transom at right angles to the keel, and the laser cut pieces fit together a bit loosely. I glued the transom onto the keel first, clamping it in place until the glue set. For this I used Duco Cement because it forms a very strong bond with wood and sets fairly quickly.

 

 

 

 

I ran into the first problem when I was fitting the keel onto the bulkheads. Each bulkhead fits into a notch on the keel. The slots in the bulkheads that fit over the keel were a bit too narrow and did not want to slide into place. The MDF has very little strength and can fragment easily so I did not want to force things.

 

The pear keel measured 1.06 mm with my calipers, and I just happened to have a small file that also measured 1.06 mm! I pushed the file edge on into the slots in the bulkheads to clear out some of the char and get the slot sides parallel (the laser cut is actually somewhat "V" shaped, and that is probably why things were a bit too tight).

 

 

 

 

After a little shaping with the file the keel fit into the bulkheads slots. Things were still a bit tight but that is good.

 

The instructions tell you that you will have to "joggle" the pieces a bit to get everything to go together. You must start at one end and fit the keel into each bulkhead one at a time. I found that rocking the bulkheads fore and aft a bit helped the keel find its place. Eventually you will get all the bulkheads in place on the keel.

 

Each bulkhead has a rectangular cutout. The bottom of this cutout will line up with the top surface of the keel adjacent to the bulkhead (top and bottom relative to normal boat orientation when floating). Keep working the keel into the slots on the bulkheads until all of the surfaces are lined up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

After the keel is in place the instructions say to paint the joints between the bulkheads and keel with glue. They recommend Titebond I or II wood glue. I have Titebond Original Wood Glue - I don't know if this is type "I" or not. I have never used Titebond before but it is the choice for many of the members of the Forum. I have been using SigBond aliphatic resin for much of the schooner build and for my MSI build.

 

 

 

 

 

While the glue was setting I removed the two bow blocks (C11) from the MDF sheet and shaped them as shown in the instructions. Then they were glued in place at the bow. These will form a surface for the planks to glue to at the bow.

 

 

 

These steps prepare the framework for planking. Next the bulkheads will have to be faired (shaped) to the run of the planking.

Edited April 12 by Dr PR

[Dr PR]

This morning I decided to begin fairing the bulkheads on the cutter as a way to avoid having to tie more ratlines on the schooner. What started off as a simple task turned out to reveal a problem.

 

 

I installed the 1 mm pear bulkhead C14 according to the instructions. You can see in this photo that the bulkhead tabs fit into the holes on the MDF base, with no gap between the bulkhead  and the base.

 

But when I started fairing the bulkheads part C14 was far out of alignment with the other bulkheads and transom. There was no way that the surface of C14 would align with the inner surface of the planks. This would be very visible in the finished model.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first plank is supposed to fit against the "shoulder" on the bulkheads. The red line marks the line of these shoulders, and the shoulder on part C14 is obviously way out of alignment.

 

You can also see how the notch in bulkhead C14 does not fit into the notch on the keel, and the gap is about the same length as the difference in alignment of the shoulder.

 

Not as noticeable is the misaligned angle of bulkhead C14 and the notch in the keel. C14 should be tilted back a bit more for the keel to fit deeply in the notch in the bulkhead.

 

 

 

 

Fortunately the Titebond glue is water soluble. I "painted" a couple drops of water on the joint between C14 and the keel, and in a few minutes the glue softened and I was able to remove C14 from the keel.

 

You can see from the glue residue (left arrow) that the bulkhead had not fit all the way into the notch in the keel.

 

The slot in the bulkhead (right arrow) is long enough to allow it to fit deeper into the notch in the keel.

 

 

 

 

This problem really is "much ado about nothing!" With a minor adjustment of procedure the parts fit together perfectly with no modifications.

 

First I fit bulkhead C14 into the notch in the keel as far as it would go (upper left arrow). I had to remove the assembly from the base to do this, but it plugged back in place easily.

 

When the assembly was plugged back into the base the tabs on the bulkhead rested against the surface of the MDF base (lower arrow). The tabs were not aligned with the holes in the base. The bulkhead also fit onto the keel at the proper angle.

 

The shoulder on bulkhead C14 now aligned perfectly with the shoulders on the other bulkheads (red line).

 

When the glue sets on C14 again I can resume fairing the bulkheads (in the meantime I guess I will have to tie more ratlines). Initial results show the surface of C14 where the planks will attach is in correct alignment with the surfaces on the transom and other bulkheads.

 

Problem solved! I hope any other problems that may arise are as easy to fix!

Edited April 12 by Dr PR

[Dr PR]

I started fairing the bulkheads in preparation for planking the hull.

 

 

This was pretty straight forward, and bulkhead C14 faired in with the transom and other bulkheads. At the bow the filler blocks were shaped to match the first bulkhead.

 

 

 

 

Next I started planking the hull.

 

The hull planks are laser cut in the 0.6 mm pear wood sheet. There are 11 planks per side and that should be just enough, with no spares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first planks to be installed rest on the shoulders on the bulkheads. These are the upper most planks when the hull is right side up as it would float in the water.

 

I immediately encountered another problem. I shaped the forward end of the first plank so it would fit into the rabbet groove cut into the keel at the stem. I finished shaping the entire plank with no problems.

 

Then I put drops of Titebond glue above all the bulkhead shoulders and put the plank into position, pushing it into the rabbet. I wasn't pushing hard, but the thin pear wood broke.

 

I was wary of this thin wood, especially at places cut across the grain. I knew this was prone to breaking along the grain. Obviously I wasn't careful enough!

 

When I make things of wood this thin I use plywood. The alternating grain layers makes it much stronger and less likely to break.

 

 

The solution was to glue the broken pieces together with Duco Cement, wipe off the wet Titebond glue, and wait for the Duco to harden. Fortunately it sets pretty quickly. But in the mean time I had supper. After a couple hours I started adding the first planks again.

 

The planks were shaped to fit the hull by painting a drop of water on the planks and then holding them in place on the hull while I heated them with my plank bending/quilting iron tool. These thin planks bent mostly to shape with a single pass. I repeated the wetting/heating two more times just to be sure. Then the planks held their shape without any additional force.

 

I put a drop of Titebond glue on each bulkhead above the shoulder. The plank was longer than necessary and the end protruded beyond the transom at the rear. I used a small rubber band to pull the aft end of the plank tight against the transom until the glue dried. The rubber band wasn't very tight - only a slight pull was necessary to keep the plank in place. The forward end was held in place by the rabbet groove in the stem.

 

 

 

The garboard strakes were the next to go on. I filed and scraped the inboard sides to fit to the keel.

 

The planks were wetted and bent with the planking iron to twist the fore and aft ends to conform with the curvature of the bulkheads. Again, after heating the planks held shape.

 

I painted Tightbond on the bulkheads and along the keel piece. Clamps held the ends to the keel. In the middle I used another clamp to hold the plank against the bulkheads.

 

The assembly was pretty strong. I removed it from the base and painted more Tightbond into the inside space between the planks and the keel.

 

I made no attempt to taper the forward end of the garboard strake before attaching it to the hull. When the glue dries I will place another plank alongside and mark where it curves over the garboard strake. Then I will trim the garboard so the plank fits tightly to it.

 

Edited April 13 by Dr PR

[schooner]

Hi Phil,

 

Looks like you are making good progress and solving the little problems that inevitably come up.

 

I have not built the 18-footer but I hope to near the end of my Syren build. I did do the 24ft launch (I have a build log under the 1751-1800 section). One suggestion that may help you avoid a problem - the transom is a weak point when planking the hull since it is just hanging out there in space and not attached to the base. You might want to consider attaching some scrap wood to the base that will reinforce the transom vertically and athwartship so it doesn't break off under pressure.

 

keep up the good work.

Edited April 13 by schooner

[Dr PR]

Tim,

 

Thanks for the tip. I had noticed that the transom wasn't very strong. In fact, the first time I glued it to the keel I used a minimal amount of glue. It came loose (only the glue failed, no wood was broken) while I was fairing the bulkheads. I reattached it with a substantial amount of Duco Cement.

 

It should be a bit stronger now that the top planks are glued to it. But I will use care while working around it.

 

While I was fairing the bulkheads I placed a piece of wood between the last 2 mm MDF bulkhead and the 1 mm pear C14 bulkhead to prevent the thin bulkhead from twisting and breaking. I'll see if I can rig something similar to support the transom.

[schooner]

Phil,

 

I just noticed your CLG-5 avatar and your MSI build link. I was stationed in Yokosuka on an FF when the Okie Boat did her last ride there in the late 70’s. I was on an MSO in the late 80’s  - I thought our fantail was crowded with sweep gear but it was nothing compared to what you had crammed into an MSI.

 

[Dr PR]

Tim,

 

The MSI was very crowded. It was quite a change going from a 112' ship with a crew of 22 to the 610' cruiser with a crew of about 1200!

[Dr PR]

Planking is continuing.

 

 

I am tapering the planks to try to get fairly uniform widths at the bow and stern. So far it has been pretty easy.

 

If the wood seems to be especially dark at some places it is because I am using my planking tool to shape the planks in place on the hull. The tool is hot enough to scorch the wood, but this will sand off when I do the final finishing. I wet the planks with water and then heat them with the tool. They bend and twist to the exact shape of the hull. Then when I glue them in place I don't need to clamp them except at the very bow and stern to hold them while the glue sets.

 

After the glue has set I reheat the planks to melt and reflow the Titebond glue. It hardens again when the planks cool. It is this process, when the planks have not been wetted with water, that the planks get scorched.

Edited April 16 by Dr PR

[Dr PR]

I have been finishing the hull planking.

 

Here is an example of a plank that has been shaped to the hull by bending with the planking/quilting tool.

 

The front and back were clamped in place on the hull. The straight plank didn't want to fit in place. But after it was wetted and heated several times it bent into shape with all the necessary curves and twists.

 

Then when it was glued into place no clamps were needed. I have used this technique here and on the MSI hull, and it is far better than trying to bend the planks off hull on a jig. That may curve the plank, but it won't give it all the necessary twists. The hull itself is the best "jig."

 

 

 

This is the hull with all but the last two planks in place. And I do mean last two planks - there are no spares!

 

However, if you break a plank and need another you could make one from the excess wood on the 0.60 mm pear sheet.

 

I shaped the planks two at a time, tapering both ends. The planking came out fairly symmetrical on both sides. However, as you can see here, I didn't taper the first few planks I put in place quite enough. By the time I got to the last three per side it was clear that I wouldn't be able to run all three to the bow and stern. I shaped the two planks on the side of the opening that you see in the photo to fill the gaps at the bow an stern, and fashioned a short pointed piece to fill the gap.

 

 

 

 

 

The last plank finally fit into place. If you look closely at the Vanguard kit instructions this is how they finished the planking - with the short pointed piece.

 

 

I certainly am not disappointed with the planking job. This is pretty thin wood and I worried about breaking the planks as I trimmed, filed and sanded them into shape. They fit the shape of the hill tightly and after sanding and painting it should look really nice.

 

One interesting thing about the laser cut planks is that they have a trapezoidal cross section instead of rectangular. This is because the laser burns a narrow "V" cut. Consequently, the planks are somewhat tapered for fitting around the curved bulkheads. Still, I did file away some of the char on the inside of the plank edges to get a tighter fit.

 

I put the narrowest side on the inside against the bulkheads. When I came to the last (pointed) planks, on one side the plank dropped between the neighboring planks without trimming at the middle widest part. On the other side I did have to file away some of the char to get the plank to fit between the other planks.

 

All in all, up to this point the kit has gone together without much trouble.

Edited Saturday at 06:10 AM by Dr PR

[shipman]

Are these boats to be painted? If so, this is fine.

 

However, if the planking is to be visible, surely the planks should be spiled correctly (even at this scale).

No real boat would be planked as you have done. Once this detail is appreciated, your method reveals the parody it is.

 

Just saing.

[Dr PR]

Shipman,

 

The boat will be painted inside and out.

 

You are correct - this planking isn't the way real boats were built. In fact this is one of my complaints about some of the ship kits being sold today, with instructions to slap the planks on without tapering and just chop them off at an angle where the lower planks curve up to meet the horizontal upper planks. 

 

I measured the gap between the garboard strake and the top plank, and then tapered the remaining nine planks with the intention of having equal width ends both fore and aft. But as I explained I didn't actually taper the first few of these planks enough, and that didn't leave room for the remainder to have equal tapers. That was my mistake. However, these planks are only 0.6 mm thick and have normal wood grain. And as the end tapered narrower and narrower they were much more prone to bending and breaking. I guess I just was reluctant to push my luck and didn't taper them enough. I did break one of the 22 planks while shaping the taper.

 

I considered hooking those next-to-last two planks, with the last plank shaped to fit between them. But if you follow the rest of the construction you will see that all but the bottom of the bulkheads will be removed and fake ribs will be added. So when I was finishing the planking I didn't know where the ribs would be to place the planking joint.

 

I was FAR more concerned to get the planks bent so they fit tight to the bulkheads. With only 0.6 mm of wood there isn't much to be sanded away to smooth the hull if an edge stood proud over a neighboring plank. Sanding a hole through the planks would be a far greater problem that the pointed planks!

 

With the experience I have gained from this build if I built another of these kits I think I probably could taper all of the planks correctly.  But if the thing is going to be painted, why bother?

 

****

 

I guess I should explain my "philosophy" for model building. No matter how hard we try and how much time we spend we can never achieve totally accurate parts at modelling scales. For example, many people serve the threads we use for ropes in order to create the appearance of a served rope. But how many modelers actually worm and parcel the rope before winding the service? And when people make their own "ropes" how many actually start by creating the smaller yarns, then winding them into intermediate threads of scale width, using alternate cable and shroud lays, before winding these into the scale ropes?

 

When I build a model the main purpose is to learn how the real things were made, and the second purpose is to make a scale replica that represents the appearance of the real thing.

 

Some people want to try to replicate the entire structure of a ship, making each scale part and carefully piecing them together, even though little of it will be visible in the finished model. I have tried this, and it brings satisfaction to the modeler that is has been done successfully.

 

But there is still a limit to what can be done at scale. Look at my USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model for an example. It was done at 1:1 scale, and contains just about every detail visible on the outer surface of the ship down to 3/16 inch (0.1875 inch or 4.76 mm) diameter rivet heads. Probably half of the 220,000+ pieces are fasteners. How would you make a 3/16 inch diameter rivet head at 1:100 scale? They would be 0.001875 inch (0.047 mm) diameter, and you would have to place thousands of them.

 

I started modelling the actual frames and internal structure and realized it would be millions of pieces. It took 14 years just to model the exterior - I wouldn't live long enough to model the entire interior!

 

So we have to accept limits to the accuracy of our models that are imposed by the scales we work at. Where you place those limits is up to you. In this case I just want to get the damned thing finished with an acceptable appearance (to me) and move on!

Edited Saturday at 05:12 PM by Dr PR

[Dr PR]

I made a mistake in something I said in the previous post. Actually, I have not seen all the boats that were ever built, nor have I studied all the many ways builders built boats. So I don't know that real boats were not planked as in the model. But I do know the ship model community dogma holds that every plank be tapered perfectly, stealers should always be made the "right" way. There isn't much allowance for the fact that no two vessels were ever built the same way.

 

I have finished shaping the planking on the hull.

 

 

I used a file to take down the higher spots and remove any glue smears. Then I sanded with 150 grit followed by 320 grit. This was followed by a rub down with #0000 steel wool.

 

 

The planking follows the curvature of the bulkheads nicely.

 

The next step will be one of those "high pucker factor evolutions." The instructions say to remove the bulkheads from the planked hull.

 

The bulkheads are made of MDF and that material is very soft and flakes easily. So I anticipate no problems breaking the bulkheads into pieces and removing most of them. But they are glued to the planks. I used glue sparingly where the planks fit against the bulkheads, and spread glue on the plank edges so they would be glued together. For extra measure, after the planks were in place I spread more glue along the seams on the inside of the planking.

 

But still, with planks only 0.6 mm (0.024 inch) thick, the potential for disaster is evident. Wish me luck!

 

 

Before sanding the hull I applied a layer of acrylic sealer. While this was drying I jumped ahead in the instructions and assembled the rudder.

 

 

It has a central 0.6 mm wooden piece and two flanking photo etch brass parts with nice detail. I used CA gel to attach the metal parts to the wooden center as recommended in the instructions.

 

 

The straps were bent at right angles to the rudder to fit the transom. The lower straps will need to be bent back along the planking after the rudder is glued on. If you look at the photos of the stern and transom above you can imagine how the rudder will fit on the boat.

Edited Saturday at 08:23 PM by Dr PR

[Dr PR]

Murphy must be on vacation! I removed the bulkheads without a problem!

 

Bulkhead C14 had a very narrow slot burned in to allow the top part with the tabs to be removed after planking was done. I used a piece of a jeweler's saw blade chucked into a small pin vise to make cuts on both sides.

 

I deliberately broke the top of the arch before sawing so I could remove each side individually.

 

This is the only bulkhead that will remain in the boat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I used a small "keyhole" saw blade in a handle to cut away the part of the bulkheads above the center opening. The instructions show using side cutter pliers to chop through the MDF, but I thought that would create side forces pushing outward. The saw cut through without doing that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A small cutter/saw in my motor tool was used to make a cut where the bulkhead side piece meets the bottom piece. I wanted to leave all of the bulkhead bottom part to serve as a support for the photo etch floorboard piece.

 

This probably wasn't necessary and wasn't included in the instructions. I was just making sure ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I used pliers to twist the bulkhead pieces away from the planking. The instructions say to do this and it works as promised!

 

The bulkhead piece was twisted gently to break the glue bond with the planks. The twisting also finished breaking the bit of MDF remaining at the cut between the side and bottom of the bulkhead.

 

I was worried that twisting the bulkheads like this would damage the planking. This was not a problem!

 

 

 

 

 

Here is the hull after the bulkheads were removed. It is pretty solid and holds its shape.

 

 

 

There was glue residue and some bits of MDF remaining on the inside of the planking. I used a variety of scrapers to remove this material. Then I put a small flexible sanding disk in the motor tool and ran it at the slowest speed. There isn't much wood in the thin planks and high speed might eat through quickly. As it was the motor stalled if I pressed too hard and it took some time to clean up the interior. But it looks pretty good now!

 

 

 

I did encounter a small problem. I tried fitting the rudder onto the transom. The rudder piece has a tab that should fit into a rectangular hole near the bottom of the transom. But when I tried to fit the tab into the hole the handle of the rudder hit the top of the transom and bulkhead C14 (the one immediately forward of the transom). It was a slight interference and filing/sanding the tops of the transom and bulkhead eliminated the interference.

Edited Monday at 07:06 AM by Dr PR

[Dr PR]

The next step in the instructions is to install the ribs inside the hull. These are laser cut 1.1 mm wide strips of the 0.6 mm thick pearwood. After reading the full instructions I realized that the floor parts will interact with the ribs. There are four photoetch brass pieces for the floors.

 

 

The center floor should fit between the MDF bulkheads as shown in the left photo above. I had to shave a bit off the bulkheads (arrows) for the deck to fit between them. The photo on the right shows where the two end floors should fit at the bow and stern. These pieces do not rest on the MDF bulkhead parts, but are suspended at the sides from the planking. They probably will need some supports.

 

The arrows on the picture at the right also show where I will install ring bolts for the boat tackle hanging from the schooner's stern davits. They will be glued into the MDF bulkhead pieces. This will require modifying the photoetch deck pieces.

 

I think the ribs will need to be trimmed all along the edges of the floor pieces for everything to fit together. But at this point I don't know how this will be done. So I just proceeded with installing the ribs and will deal with the interferences and fits later.

 

 

I wet the strips with water and used the plank bending/quilting iron to shape them to fit inside the hull. They were glued in place with Titebond glue. There was just enough of the rib strips to complete the job. I think the intent of the design was to extend the ribs down only enough for the lower ends to be hidden under the deck planks. As you can see, I extended the ribs down to the keel, and there almost wasn't enough of the strips.

 

I had some trouble getting the strips to fit into the hull at the proper angles. The problem stems from the ribs not being faired (shaped) to the angle of the hull planking. The strips try to fit flush with the plank surfaces, and that causes them to angle inward, especially at the bow. Fortunately the Titebond glue will loosen when water is added to the joint. Of course you have to be careful here because the planks are also being held together with the  glue! The decking will hide the lower ends of the ribs, but there still is some reworking needed to get better angles for these ribs.

 

After I see how the deck parts fit I think I will use the motor tool to remove more of the MDF bulkhead material under the decking so it doesn't show between the deck planks.

 

I also know that the after seat piece will have to be notched to fit over the ribs.

Edited yesterday at 05:40 AM by Dr PR

[Billpitts]

On 4/19/2025 at 3:35 AM, shipman said:

No real boat would be planked as you have done

After seeing these posts I tried to study about cutters as I really like how they look and would like to build one.  I found that the cutter photos and drawings  I was able to find had planking that laps one over the other then blends at the bow so I quickly got confused after seeing this project.    Were there mostly cutters like in this build example that have planking that does not overlap or can I adjust the kit to have the lapped planks like in this old drawing?

Thanks

Bill

Edited 13 hours ago by Billpitts

[Dr PR]

Bill,

 

Lapped planks (clinker or lapstrake construction) were (are) very common on small boats - and even some pretty large fishing vessels and such. I think it is just the preference of the builder or the local tradition that decides how the hulls would be planked.

 

However, for this kit you would have to find new wood for the planking. The planks that are supplied are only enough to fill the distance from the shoulder on the bulkheads to the keel, placed edge to edge with no overlap (carvel construction).

 

You certainly could use the kit bulkheads as the framework for lapstrake planking. The supplied 1.1 mm wide planks are too narrow (in my opinion) for lapstrake planking. You would probably want something like 1.5 to 1.6 mm wide planks, and about 0.5 mm thick.

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, Billpitts said:

Were there mostly cutters

Bill, Cutters were traditionally of clinker (or lapstrake) construction.

 

The launches, long boats, barges, pinnaces, and
yawls, are carvel-built; and cutters, jolly boats, galleys,
gigs, and life boats, are clincher-built.

 

Also

 

Cutters of a Ship, (bateaux, Fr.) are broader, deeper, and shorter than
the barges and pinnaces-, they are fitter for sailing, and are commonly
employed in carrying stores, provisions, passengers, etc. to and from the ship.
In the structure of this sort of boats, the lower edge of every plank in
the side over-lays the upper-edge of the plank below, which is called by
ship-wrights clinch-work.

Yawls, (canots, Fr.) are something less than cutters, nearly of the same
form, and used for similar services ; they are generally rowed with six
oars.

 

[Dr PR]

Craig,

 

I certainly am not an authority on small boats or cutters, but I do have W. E. May's The Boats of Men-of-War, Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, Maryland, 1999.

 

It is mainly (entirely?) focused on British boats. It says early 1700s cutters were initially clinker built because they were made at Deal for the admiralty, and that was the tradition at Deal (pages 32, 34 and 66). Eventually any type of boat that was clinker built was called "cutter built," including boats of different types significantly different from the small cutters. 

 

But later boats were commissioned at other boat yards, and the naval yards used carvel construction (page 34). In some cases the location where the boat was to be used determined the type of construction. For use in the English Channel boats were built clinker style, but for foreign service the same type of boat was built carvel style (page 40). Some cutters were carvel built (page 66). Clinker built boats were lighter than carvel built, but they required more expensive metal hardware.

 

By the early 1800s clinker built boats were out of favor because they were thought to be less durable and harder to repair. All boats to be used in foreign service were to be carvel built. In the early 1800s cutters were ordered to be carvel built, and cutters so built were sometimes called "jollyboats" (page 67). These were heavier than clinker built boats, and were out of favor by the mid 1800s. 

 

And so on ...

 

All of this is just about British Royal Navy boats. In fact, small boats actually were being built elsewhere, for other uses than the Royal Navy! Really! This is why I am writing this. It really twists my tail when someone suggests all "xx" from everywhere throughout all of history were built/done in a single way. My response is to say "prove it!" My experience has been that no two ships/boats of the same type were ever built the same way in different shipyards. But I cannot prove it never happened.

 

Cutters were clinker or carvel built, depending on when, where and who was building them. I am building this boat for a hypothetical American topsail schooner of about 1815, made somewhere on the US east coast, by some boatyard. Who knows how those boat builders made small boats?

Edited 11 hours ago by Dr PR

[Dowmer]

I agree Phil, I know that many of the ships of discovery in the Pacific Northwest had cutters and small boats carvel built due to the points you brought up.  They were much easier to repair when they were far from civilization at the edge of the world under very rough and arduous conditions. 
 

Craig brought up some very good info and it is certainly correct as a generalization. However, builder, and different nationalities tended to add differences over time. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Dowmer

[Billpitts]

Thank you for your input!  I think I will go with supplementary material for a kit or forgo a kit to get the clinker planking as this seems to have been the predominant or at least equal style for the 18th century except as you all have noted above.  Do you or any other members know of kits for clinker construction?   I am getting The Boats of Men-of-War, as you mentioned this book and in looking into it I  found that it has charts with actual measurements for various parts of the cutters and/or other types of boats.   

Thanks again

Bill

[Kenchington]

27 minutes ago, Dr PR said:

It really twists my tail when someone suggests all "xx" from everywhere throughout all of history were built/done in a single way.

And "xx" could mean more than one (entirely different) boat or ship type, at the same time and different places or different times at the same place. (Anyone wan to try a universal definition of "frigate"???) Meanwhile, type "AA" could be called "xx" at one time and place but "yy" somewhere (or somewhen) different or if the same hull was put to a different use, even if given a different rig. Ain't technical terminology fun?

 

33 minutes ago, Dr PR said:

no two ships/boats of the same type were ever built the same way in different shipyards

And no two ships were ever built exactly the same way, even when the same crew of shipwrights worked on both. I've sometimes wondered whether we couldn't identify both the yard which built a wrecked ship and the date of her building by examining details of surviving wreckage, and do so with at least as reliable results as the fine-art people get when determining which great master did a particular portrait, if only we had reference collections for each yard.

 

Boats are more likely to be mass produced, as with banks dories from the larger builders. But they can vary too: These's an interesting paper in "Mariner's Mirror", from a good few years back now, describing how a boatbuilder in one English town (on the River Dart, IIRC) would get on his push-bike and cycle to a nearby fishing village, where he and his client would look at the boats on the beach. The client would say something to the effect of: "Like that one, but a foot longer, and with a wider stern, like the one over there". Then the boatbuilder would keep that in his head, cycle back to his home and, a few weeks later, a carter would deliver the completed boat, looking a lot like all the others on the beach but subtly different from each of them.

 

Before Nova Scotian lobster boats were popped out of plastic moulds, you could see the effects of a similar process at work: Most boats in one harbour would have a lot in common, but subtle differences from one another, while those in the next harbour (where the fishermen patronized a different builder) would again have a lot in common with one another but more detail differences from the boats in the first harbour.

 

Then again, there's a neat study of one community in Newfoundland (Winterton, on Trinity Bay), where the most skilled boatbuilder was himself a fisherman. Each winter, he would build himself a new boat, which he would sell to one of his neighbours the next year, as he worked step by step towards his own notion of a perfect boat for the local fishery.

 

 

In all that, when we say something like "yawl" or "battleship", we impose a rigid terminology on the continuously varying products of technological evolution and it just doesn't work well. (Doesn't work as well a most people suppose when we do the same with the outputs of biological evolution either, but that's not a topic for MSW!)

 

 

Trevor

[Dr PR]

Dowmer,

 

Bill's post about clinker built cutters was good, and Craig's answer was correct - for British boats of the 1700s and later 1800s.

 

And everyone should be happy that Vanguard also has clinker built cutters - with 3D printed hulls.

 

https://vanguardmodels.co.uk/products/18-cutter

 

Think about it a minute - do you really want to try to build a 3 inch (74 mm) long clinker built hull with 1.5 mm wooden planks? Even though my carvel built boat came out OK, I screwed up the plank tapering. On a large model hull a fraction of a mm difference in plank width doesn't create a problem. But when the planks are only 1.1 mm wide to start with, any errors accumulate fast!

[Kenchington]

3 minutes ago, Dr PR said:

do you really want to try to build a 3 inch (74 mm) long clinker built hull with 1.5 mm wooden planks?

Noooooo!!!!!!!!!

 

Model Expo's Norwegian pram is quite enough, thanks 😀

[Billpitts]

2 hours ago, Dr PR said:

And everyone should be happy that Vanguard also has clinker built cutters - with 3D printed hulls.

Thank you very much Dr PR.   At least for now I am interested in wooden hulls rather than resin or plastic so I would like to find a kit or, if necessary will attempt a scratch built boat.  

Bill

[Dr PR]

Bill,

 

I have seen larger clinker built kits that had laser cut bulkheads and planks. with the notched bulkheads and tapered planks these assembled easily since all the guesswork had already been done by the kit designer. I haven't seen a small small boat kit but there might be one out there. If you find one let us know!

 

I am still obsessing over how the deck pieces will fit into the hull with ribs. The small aft grating (right hand photo below, aft arrow) is supposed to fit between bulkhead C14 and the transom. But as the picture shows it just falls into the space at an angle. Looking through Boats of Men-of War I see a few boats did have this double bulkhead-transom arrangement. The after bulkhead seems to have served as a seat back. Some boats had the open space between the bulkhead and transom and some had it decked over. I will either glue a small strip to the back of bulkhead C14 to support the front edge of the grating or just plank over the opening. Working in that tight space may be challenging.

 

 

I did reposition some of the ribs to get more even spacing, and I faired the forward ribs so they fit into the hull at a better angle. The center deck section fits nicely into the hull with ribs, but is curved down a bit in the center. The larger aft grating sits on top of the ribs, and just fortuitously happens to snug in behind two of the ribs that hold it in place.

 

The bow grating is a problem! As you can see in the left hand photo above it wants to ride back on the ribs quite a distance from the bow where it is supposed to fit. In the right hand photo I have placed a bit of scrap 2 mm MDF under the grating and it sits closer to the bow. Photos in the instructions (below) seem to show the forward ribs trimmed back to allow the front grating to sit lower and more forward. I may do this if I can't figure out how to cut slits in the ribs to allow the grating to slip forward into place.

 

 

 

The next step in the instructions is to install the seat support strips. It says to mount them about 3 mm below the top of the hull planking. I clamped the strips into the hull and bent them to shape with the planking iron.

 

 

After the glue set for the seat support strips I test fitted the seat parts in the hull.

 

 

I will need to adjust the seat positions after the floor pieces are installed. The center seat with the mast support should be positioned above the mast foot detail in the deck planking photo etch part. The after seat piece won't fit into the hull with the ribs installed. I knew this would happen after reading the instructions. I will cut notches for the ribs in the sides of the seats so the part will fit down onto the seat support strips.

 

The large after seat part is made from 1 mm pear wood, and the narrow seat at the front runs across the grain. While I was removing laser char this part broke along the grain. I have glued some scrap strips on the bottom over the break. Cutting the notches for the ribs will be tricky. Plywood would have been a lot stronger. I have plenty of thin plywood so maybe I will just make another part.

Edited 2 hours ago by Dr PR