HMS Bounty by Captain Al - FINISHED - Artesania Latina - Scale 1:48

[Captain Al]

Anthony, thanks for the compliment and for following the build log.

[Captain Al]

Speaking of CA glues....I totally agree that no two glues are the same.  It must be slight differences in the formulas used.  The real surprise for me is that the Dollar Store and elsewhere sells CA for $1.00 for the same quantity that my hobby shop or Home Depot sells it for $5.00.  And its just as good (maybe it won't be after its been on the boat for a couple years??).  My best discovery for using CA when planking the hull was Loctite gel.  Its quite thick so it allows precise placement and doesn't run.  It allows for repositioning for at least 10-15 seconds.  And it holds really well.  What I would do when putting down a plank (or strake) was to apply PVA glue to the edges and at the spots where the plank would contact the frames (always coating both surfaces).  But I would leave bare the first, middle and last frame point.  When all was ready I'd put a drop of this Loctite gel on the first frame and press down the plank up to the middle.  Then a drop of gel in the middle, and on to the last frame.  This often was sufficient to hold tight the planks, but usually I'd add some clamps.  This technique also allowed me to use much longer strips than otherwise since I would have more flexibility in the strip to insert the second and third drops of CA.

[Captain Al]

I'm back at it after a bit of a lapse -- I put all the half pounders on the ship and I think the top deck is mostly finished.  I'm now working on (struggling with) the bowsprit.  I want to build the two parts mostly off the boat and then connect them via the cap, saddle and gammoning as I place them on the ship.  I've got the tapering done as well as the tenoning of the ends and I've slotted and inserted a sheave at the inboard end of the sprit.  The trickiest part was angling the holes in the cap so that it would sit perpendicular to the water line and not angled upward as the bowsprit itself is.  I wish the mfr had made the holes (precut part) properly angled.  Instead I had to file and sand down their 90 degree holes to make it work right.  As I learned from another build log (think it was Vulture) it would have been easier and better looking to just make a new piece and drill the holes properly to begin with.  I may still do it over but right now that's the least of my worries.

 

HELP!  I've never been great at reading plans and reconciling two views (top down v. side) of the same thing.  This bowsprit is driving me nuts trying to figure out where to put blocks on it.  Some fairly obvious while others I just can't visualize.  I wonder if someone can lend a hand based on the photos I'm attaching.  The one's I'm really not sure of are the 3 #500 blocks shown on the side view (in the area where the steeve and sprit overlap) compared to the two shown on the overhead view (one of which is left unlabeled as its a symmetrical part).  I'm not sure how many of these #500 blocks there really are.  The two that are most forward in the side view are not shown on the overhead view -- so I would think they hang straight down (and are blocked from view by the sprit itself).  But then, what about the third (aft most) 500 in the side view?  Is that the same block as one of the 500s in the overhead view?  It looks like its hung below the steeve (like the other two) and if so wouldn't be seen in the overhead view.  But if it is one of the two shown on the OH view, wouldn't it be shown attached to the side of the steeve and not underneath it?  So now I'm thinking that there are 3 500s hung below the steeve (as in the side view) and also TWO MORE  attached to the sides of the steeve (lashed immediately fwd of the forward most cleats).  For a total of 5 of these #500s.  Can someone please help me on this? 

 

Moving forward, I'm having trouble figuring out how many and where the #342 blocks go.  The side view shows one on the top of the sprit and one at the aft end of the bees of bowsprit (hereinafter referred to as just the bees)  I would then say that the port bee would also have the same block just blocked from view.  But then I wonder why these two, attached to the bees, aren't shown on the OH view.  The OH view shows two more 342s but they seem to be attached to the sides of the cap and not to the bees.  I've thought that maybe the sides of the sprit are not symmetrical and there is only one 342 on the starboard bee but not on the port bee.  But when I look closely at the side view the 342 is attached to the bees while in OH view the unlabeled 342 is attached to the aft face of the cap.  So is there 5 342s or just 4?  And where exactly do they go -- on the bees or on the cap?  Or maybe the drawings are bad?  Wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Mike Dowling]

Good to see you back ! Your deck looks lovely, well done sir!

 

Not sure I can help much with your bowsprit rigging as I know your rigging is different from mine anyway. I can send you a copy of my bowsprit plans if I haven't already if that is any help but I am sure someone who has done/is doing the AL version will be of more help than I.

[thomaslambo]

Hi Al,

 

Beautiful job on the main deck...I think the brass cannons add a really nice finished look to the ship  

Edited June 18, 2015 by thomaslambo

[thomaslambo]

Hi Al,

 

Just wondering how you're doing...I saw a recent post from you on another build log asking about the bowsprit.

[Captain Al]

Thanks for the inquiry Boyd. Yeah, I've been hung up on the bowsprit due to my inability to interpret the plans. My queries on LADon's log finally paid off and a kind gentleman named Captain Poison just today sent me two nice close up pix which explains a lot. There's been a lot going on in my life besides model building anyway, so progress has been slow regardless of the bowsprit. I've been jumping around in terms of the order of things and once the sprit is done and in place I think I'll work on the launch. I did the jolly boat early on and it was a lot of fun.

[thomaslambo]

Al,

 

I saw Captain Poison's reply to you...definitely good stuff.  Always good to jump around when you're overloaded on another step

 

 

Hey,

 

Did  you see my invitations to "personal conversations" I sent to you?  

 

I sent one about 4 weeks back on "Rudder Installation" and another this week on "Rigging".  But I never heard anything back from you?

 

I'm thinking you didn't receive email notifications from MSW...it's the same type of notifications (via email) you get when someone posts to your build log?

Edited August 22, 2015 by thomaslambo

[Captain Poison]

If you still have some doubts about the bowsprit and how many blocks or deadeyes are, I can display images with more details. I have not yet placed it but is completed.

 

I also have my doubts at the time, Artesania Latina assumes that this model is for experienced modelers and many things are not explained in the manual... I found some errors and report them to the company (I don't think they will do something about it, but if they want to improve the model it is better to listen to customers).

 

I'm working on this ship from 2014 and now I started with masts and yards, with some modifications that I think should be included in this model, any other questions I'll be happy to share...

[Jparsley]

Hello  just came across your build.   I have to say at 68 and your first ever build especialy on an advanced build kit  your doing a marvolous job.  best of luck with the rest of your build.

[Jeff-E]

Hi Al,

 

You are doing a fantastic job  she looks fantastic.

 

As for your query with the blocks you are right there are 5 of the '500' blocks, the 3 that hang below the bowsprit are for the bobstays and the two on the side are for the bowsprit shrouds.

 

As for the '342' blocks the two on the cap will be for the spritsail yard lift, the others I am not sure of but if you look at your rigging plans it may give you some clue as to what lines pass through these blocks

 

Hope this helps.  

[Captain Al]

Thank you to all who have recently found my log and commented. Boyd, I never get email notification from MSW even though I have asked for it. I will check out my personal inbox more often. Again, thanks for the interest. Note another quirk here -- for some reason this program editor puts carriage returns in all the wrong places. Maybe there is a way to adjust that but since it just started a couple weeks ago I doubt its something that I can make right.

 

CP, thank you for the offer of more detailed pix and info. Right now I'm good (I think) but I know I will need help with the masts. Can I avail myself of your personal email (on this site I mean) when the time

comes?

 

You've all been an inspiration (what with all the flattery) for me to get back and spend some real time at the bench, so hopefully I'll begin filling this log with some progress reports instead of questions.

[Captain Al]

Sorry everyone for bringing up that quirk in the program's editor. I just now noticed that no matter how bad it looks when I'm tying the reply, when it actually posts the carriage returns (and split words) have been corrected. Isn't it nice when you discover something technical actually works right.

[Captain Poison]

"CP, thank you for the offer of more detailed pix and info. Right now I'm good (I think) but I know I will need help with the masts. Can I avail myself of your personal email (on this site I mean) when the time
comes?"

 

Feel free to do so, happy to help you... the second and third week of September I'll be on vacation and I'll have more time to work on my ship, I still have to finish the yards of the main mast and mizzen. bowsprit and fore mast are completed.

 

[thomaslambo]

Feel free to do so, happy to help you... the second and third week of September I'll be on vacation and I'll have more time to work on my ship, I still have to finish the yards of the main mast and mizzen. bowsprit and fore mast are completed.

 

I may take you up on that offer when I get to rigging.  Between the AL plan sheet, the "Anatomy" and a copy of "Rigging Period Ship Models" I'll see how I do 

[Captain Poison]

No problem thomaslambo, also follow your log and you are doing a great job.

 

Captain AI, recently I realized that instead of using deadeyes (# 500) you should place closed hearts (4), two in-line and two on the sides.I hope it's not late to change this.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Captain Poison

[Captain Al]

 

Captain AI, recently I realized that instead of using deadeyes (# 500) you should place closed hearts (4), two in-line and two on the sides.I hope it's not late to change this.

 

CP, I actually think I discovered that as well. I need to go look at the ship.

 

No, I did use deadeyes. I could change them if its going to make a real big difference in how its rigged -- which I would think it will. How did you conclude that part 500 is a heart and not a deadeye? That was an issue I couldn't resolve for a long time. I finally decided that AL was using the terms "clump block" and "deadeye" for the same thing. I think I used the German word under the illustration to reach that conclusion; something like Klampfenblocken (lol). Anyway, this is something I will now need to review and decide on what to do. BTW, when you say "closed hearts" you are referring to those blocks that are shaped like a triangle and have one hole in the center. I don't find the term "hearts" anywhere in AL's stuff. They refer to these as "dead blocks" as opposed to "deadeyes." I thought these were part 501 and have put them on where the layout indicates 501s should go.

 

If it helps you at all, I received some good feedback on these bowsprit blocks when I posted a topic called something like "How to Make a block lie parallel v. perpendicular." under Rigging forum. It should be there still. I haven't checked that thread out for a long time.

[Captain Poison]

Yes they refer as dead blocks ( #501) Model expo sells them to $3.99 (10 units 7mm)

You'll need more since the kit supplies 6 only and will be necessary also on the fore mast and main mast.

 

These images are not mine but you can see how it is properly. (HMS Bounty and Santísima Trinidad)

* A- 2 each side of bowsprit

* B- 2 in line

Edited August 22, 2015 by Captain Poison

[Captain Al]

Very cool pix.

Thanks a lot CP.

[Captain Al]

Well I took off the 4 deadeyes (which AL has labeled 500s) 2 on the sides and 2 hanging below. I didn't like the way they hung so low anyway -- too much becket even though it matched the plans. I'm about to start working on replacing these with the 501 hearts as CP has suggested and which look quite good in the pix he's added above. But then I re-read JeffE's comments above and hope Jeff can confirm what CP and I seem to be doing. Jeff, you refer to the 5 "500" blocks (I need to find the fifth one) which are for the bobstays and the bowsprit shrouds. Because they are labeled 500, is the reason I first put on the 4mm deadeyes. But now we're thinking that these should be hearts -- which if I interpret AL's parts list correctly, would be 501s. Jeff, do you think that these are deadeyes or hearts? I think AL simply mislabeled them as 500 when they should have had a 501 designation.

 

As an aside, at this point I have over 90 small (4mm) deadeye blocks, about 75 large deadeyes (5mm), and 14 hearts. CP, you only got 6 hearts in your kit? Is it a new kit? Mine was mfr'd almost 10 years ago. Things are getting sloppy at AL. Or, does the small number of Hearts you have maybe make you think that these hearts actually are 500 (small) deadeyes? I'm buying into the mislabeling and AL shorting you a bunch of hearts. Just from the pix you posted I can't see how that rigging would connect to deadeyes, and there is no purpose to deadeyes for the functions that Jeff indicates.

 

I have some other work to do anyway, so I'm going to wait another day to see what you guys think before tying on hearts that might need to be deadeyes; or vice versa.

 

Boyd, I hope this helps you when you get there. Its really been the most perplexing issue so far in this build.

[Dan Vadas]

Hi Al,

 

For what it's worth here's a pic of the Standing Rigging on my Bounty's Bowsprit. Maybe it'll give you some tips.

 

BTW - I built this as per AL's instructions, well before my Scratchbuilding and Researching days .

 

Click on the pic to enlarge it.

 

 

 Danny

[Dan Vadas]

On the other hand, here is the bowsprit from Vulture. She uses Closed Hearts rather than Deadeyes for the bowsprit shrouds. I'd be more inclined to do it this way, as I said in the previous post I built Bounty as per AL's instructions. Vulture was built using James Lees' "Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War" and Vol 4 of "TFFM" and would most likely be the more accurate.

 

 

 Danny

[Captain Al]

Well as the saying goes, a picture says a 1000 words. Can't thank you enough Dan. I sure wish AL could have just included a couple close up pix of the bowsprit. I don't know for sure which way I'll go yet but I will make that decision in the morning. I lean toward the closed hearts.

 

Is the idea behind either that it was a way to tighten up (tune) the rigging? I couldn't understand what the purpose of the deadeyes would be until I see your picture and see that each deadeye on the sprit will be paired with a deadeye on end of the line. Same for the hearts. Is this more or less the 18th century version of turnbuckles?

 

Thanks again Dan for your continued interest.

[Dan Vadas]

Is the idea behind either that it was a way to tighten up (tune) the rigging? I couldn't understand what the purpose of the deadeyes would be until I see your picture and see that each deadeye on the sprit will be paired with a deadeye on end of the line. Same for the hearts. Is this more or less the 18th century version of turnbuckles?

 

 

Yep, exactly. They work the same as the shrouds and deadeyes on the masts.

 

 Danny

[Captain Poison]

Dan,your Vulture scratchbuilt is excellent and somehow you have me inspired for my next ship.

I am thinking of building a Spanish Frigate 22 guns of the 18th century (1:48)

 

What I try to do on the Bounty is an improvement in the rigging, I understand that the plans indicate what Artesania Latina wants but does not mean that it is entirely correct.

This is a scale that allows you to make a few changes..

Edited August 23, 2015 by Captain Poison

[Captain Al]

CP, if I read Dan correctly I think he's in agreement with your changes to hearts v. deadeyes 100%. I'm probably going to go that route as well.

[Captain Al]

Well, I made the choice to use the hearts instead of the deadeyes and I pretty much completed the bowsprit this weekend. Except for the blocks and sheaves at the far forward tip of the sprit. I'm OK with my work but can't say it is my best effort. I still struggle with tying on beckets to blocks. You could say this build has been one of experimenting with one technique after another and still not finding one that comes up to the standards of more accomplished modelers. But its working. I also am never sure I'm using the right size or color thread for the size or type of block being installed. This bowsprit is a good example of using whatever size and color thread I happen to have in front of me and which I can work with. Take a look at the pix. You'll probably agree its a pot pouri of everything that came in the kit's supplies. Next build I plan to purchase the right sizes and colors independent of what a kit supplies -- especially if its an A.L. kit.

 

Note on the pix that the gammoning is still loose and not trimmed. My plan is to wrap it tightly and then paint it with watered down PVA glue. Learned that from Danny (among other things). Once complete I am going to shelve the whole bowsprit until such time that I can't proceed without it installed. I don't want the additional overhang getting in my way when I need to turn the ship on the bench.

[Captain Al]

Got all the pieces to the bowsprit glued together and the gammoning wrapped on tight. This is how it looks on the ship although like I said before, I am going to wait til its time to permanently attach it. I wasn't sure how I'd glue the three parts (bowsprit steeve, sprit and cap) of the structure together but when I was fiddling with it and thought I had it all aligned perfectly (blocks to the top and bottom, bees sticking out to the sides like wings, and the cap sitting upright), I decided that I would use CA glue in the joints. So that's what I did -- holding the whole thing in place with one hand I just dripped some CA into the holes in the cap and in the joint of the saddle and the sprit. The saddle had already been glued to the steeve. I was pretty pleased until I realized my alignment was slightly off and the little hole at the tip of the sprit was not sitting right at zero degrees but was twisted a bit. Nothing I could do about it it. I'm not one for taking things apart, so I'll wait and see if that misalignment screws up the placement of those additional parts at the tip and then the rigging that runs through them. I have a feeling I can get away with this -- other than visually.

[Dan Vadas]

Hi Al,

 

The mis-alignment will be very noticeable later on, unfortunately. A perfect reason NOT to use CA glue for this step. PVA would have been a far better option, allowing you plenty of time for re-alignment and even de-bonding altogether if needed.

 

You may be able to de-bond the joints with Acetone, but it'll be difficult - plenty of applications will be needed. PVA can be de-bonded with Isopropyl Alcohol quite easily. It may be a better option to fill the hole and re-drill it.

 

I suggest you DON'T use CA for anything other than bonding metal to wood (and even then only for things like fixing eyebolts to a deck for example) or for making "needle points" in line when feeding through blocks.

 

Lots of luck.

 

 Danny

[Captain Poison]

In the first image I see that you've placed a Deadeye, (next to the bowsprit cap) when in fact should go a block (#342)... in general you're doing a good job.