MORDAUNT 1681 by NMBROOK - Euromodel - 1:60 - Beyond Bashed

[NMBROOK]

Thank you very much indeed Brian,Matti and Alistair The packer behind the g clamp is a failed attempt I have learned to expect this with Pear now and again,the grain structure is very unpredictable.The first one,shown shaped in the pics was as tough as old boots to get around that bend,the last one,that is shown clamped up went real easy.All three were soaked and boiled exactly the same.With some timbers you can second guess which way they will bend best and indeed if they won't take the bend.With pear the grain is almost invisible so it is a little hit and miss until you produce satisfactory pieces.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[rafine]

Those are amazing bends Nigel. Just one more testament to your skills.

 

Bob

[Bill Hime]

Nigel,

Beautiful work, requires persistence especially when you're not sure how the wood will react. Something I've been thinking about is hardwood lamination, using, as example, only pear cut into ribbons, shaped, glued and clamped. I've used this technique for building railings on sweeping or spiral staircases. the tightest radius's can be achieved. Just a thought

 

 

Sincere Regards,

 

Bill 

[WackoWolf]

Beautiful bending work. Keep the updates and pictures coming. Thank you for sharing this build.

[NMBROOK]

Thank you very much indeed Bob,Bill and Joe

 

I have used the laminating technique on other builds Bill.The issue in this instance is that the lower section has a deep chamfer feathering into the ceiling planks.This would make the glue joints highly visible.Had this not been the case,I may well of adopted that approach.I have made a fair few spiral staircases,but in steel,not wood .

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[md1400cs]

Nigel,

 

With my apologies from across the pond, I've been falling behind with-well-everything...Certainly your build as well.

 

OMG what excellent updates, tutoring and a crash fix..Your grating issue has been beautifully resolved, certainly (though as you know those nails were such an amazing detail bit, but as I often say, "oh well"). Pear wood is beautiful. I need to explore that particular wood.

 

Your full views along with those awesome curves are a delight. Thanks I enjoyed my entire morning breakfast catching up with you. Even had a second latè to stretch my time here. Gorgeous !!

 

Cheers,

 

Michael

[NMBROOK]

Thank you very much indeed Michael for your kind words Knowing my log has been your breakfast companion makes me smile even more The nail detail is not written off just yet Just need to up my game tool wise.As I now have to fit the fastenings inside a 1mm square box,I am going to opt for one fixing per joint(I know of one Russian master who went for just the one on his model of Le Requin).The cobalt PCB drill has the issue of only having 1mm of drilling section.I am going for a 0.2mm hole with 0.18mm copper wire.Two fixings are theoretically possible,but we are bordering brain surgery .Either way,this will have to be drilled on the mill table for accuracy and the curved profile of the top face added beforehand due to the limited drill depth.At present,I am giving this much further thought as to whether the grating should be fitted into it's combing first or later.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[NMBROOK]

A small update,besides cutting and shaping up some more deck beams(not taken any pics as they are well,beams  ) I have milled two more grating 'bases' but have also built up the first one.This has to be cut to size and the top shaped.I have given it a thin coat of polyurethane to stiffen it up a little and hopefully stop me loosing the crisp edges through chipping.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[bp1535]

Nigel: I finally figured out how this was accomplished.  But, how do you 'cut' it off the "base."?  (  the above grating has the 'ledges' placed

horizontally, correct?  Cheers, Bill Palmer

[themadchemist]

Hey Nigel,

Beautiful work ...again. Hopefully the last practice run.

 

Is the Russian Master your referring to Roma's Le Requin as its gun deck gratings are single pinned. His build is the reason I purchase the ANCRE monography. I also love that he nailed the inside of the gun port doors, such a beautiful touch. It definitely deserves it's gold and Roma's passing was a great lose to this hobby.

 

You spoke of shaping, how do you plan to achieve the curvature? I think the single pin/nails is attractive, two is boarder line crazy, but we already know that    

 

 

By the way here is Roma's work, may he RIP.

 

gunports

 

 

gun deck grating

 

 

Look at this - 4 pinned masterpiece

 

[NMBROOK]

Nigel: I finally figured out how this was accomplished.  But, how do you 'cut' it off the "base."?  (  the above grating has the 'ledges' placed

horizontally, correct?  Cheers, Bill Palmer

Hi Bill

Yes,you got it.I found that sanding with the rotary tool to be the safest option.I tried it on the mill but it is touch and go as the grating can start to move when the amount of material holding it is drastically reduced.Mr Frolich actually cut his off using the tablesaw,I haven't the nerve to try that on something I have spent several hours on  

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[NMBROOK]

Hey Nigel,

Beautiful work ...again. Hopefully the last practice run.

 

Is the Russian Master your referring to Roma's Le Requin as its gun deck gratings are single pinned. His build is the reason I purchase the ANCRE monography. I also love that he nailed the inside of the gun port doors, such a beautiful touch. It definitely deserves it's gold and Roma's passing was a great lose to this hobby.

 

You spoke of shaping, how do you plan to achieve the curvature? I think the single pin/nails is attractive, two is boarder line crazy, but we already know that    

 

 

By the way here is Roma's work, may he RIP.

 

gunports

Xebec(1-48)(AlexanderRomashenko)-106.JPG 

 

gun deck grating

Xebec(1-48)(AlexanderRomashenko)-347.JPG

 

Look at this - 4 pinned masterpiece

Xebec(1-48)(AlexanderRomashenko)-498.JPG

Hi Keith

Thank you very much and yes it is Roma's model I am referring.I will try both single and double fixings on a scrap 'mock up'.I think many may realise I am borderline certifiable     .

I have two options with shaping.One is to sand the curved profile,but I would much rather be able to thin the grating enough to enable me to shape the piece by water application.This is the reason for the thinned varnish,to reinforce around the holes to allow removal of further material by sanding.

The nailed gunport lids is something I will touch on later in this build as I intend to open a 'can of worms' regarding history.It has generally been accepted this was a French practice,however there is a sectional model of a gun position from Royal William that was in the NMM.This dates to the time of the vessel and the 'sea of nails' can be made out beneath the paint .I shall be adopting this on both Mordaunt and Royal William.This is what I am hoping to achieve with copper

http://www.shipmodels.com.ua/images/models/le_ambiteux/22_b.jpg

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

Edited November 2, 2014 by NMBROOK

[themadchemist]

The copper will be striking against that pear.

The gun lid link has some amazing symmetry. Either a mill or someone with an amazing eye and skill level. Works of such masters I can look at for hours.

[egkb]

Your 'Sea Of Nails' should look a treat Nigel .. on this matter was Royal Navy practice to do this with Tree Nails or just just to do it differently, i.e. using less nails ? if you follow.

 

Eamonn

[NMBROOK]

The copper will be striking against that pear.

The gun lid link has some amazing symmetry. Either a mill or someone with an amazing eye and skill level. Works of such masters I can look at for hours.

The link was Dr Mike's work.His Rivoli ones are even nicer,actual rounded nail heads and made in silver against boxwood.I would have had to delve deep into his build log to find that one.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[NMBROOK]

Eamonn,you ask the million dollar question.I have not seen substantiated information about RN vessels of my chosen periods that say either way.The model I mentioned shows to me there is a good possibility they followed the same practice.Interestingly,Michael (md1400s) has just posted some excellent pics of Vasa's gunports featuring the same details.

Basically,aesthetically they add a great deal and my using the NMM model argument as my justification should keep the judges happy

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[egkb]

Thanks for that Mate. 

 

E

[Nightquest1000]

Hi Nigel,

 

your "sea of nails" can be done! Here's a picture of Dr.Mike' approach. Happy nailing

 

greetings

Tom

 

 

 

 

[NMBROOK]

Hi Tom

Thanks for the pic,those are the ones on Rivoli I was referring to Drilling the holes on the mill and 'rolling' the heads is almost easy,compared to cutting them to length and fitting them in the holes    

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[Nightquest1000]

Nigel,

 

for me, it is exactly the other way 'round. I have no idea how he makes the nails...

 

Tom

[NMBROOK]

Hi Tom

 

Alexey Domanoff did a tutorial on how to make miniature nails,it is in one of the relevant sections.It is a fairly simple job.you roll the material under a blunt knife blade.The burr that is produced forms the nail head.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[NAZGÛL]

Wow, the grating turned out just perfect mate. How many hours went into it?

 

Nails, the ones on Vasas gratings are quite hard to even notice in real life. 

 

 

 

/Matti

Edited November 14, 2014 by NAZGÛL

[WackoWolf]

Nigel,

 

    That is some Beautiful rigging work you have done, nice and clean, no glue or anything can be seen. Excellent work. Thank you for sharing this. Keep the updates and pictures come. I am always watching even thought I don't say anything.

[NMBROOK]

Hi Joe

Unfortunately I can't take the credit,I feel you are referring to Roma's build.I am quite a long way from doing any 'ropework' on this build.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[NMBROOK]

After spending a few hours scouring the net,I have eventually found a supplier of super small drills.I have purchesed two 0.18mm drills for adding the grating nailing.These drills have double stepped down shanks enabling them to fit in the 3.2mm Proxxon collet.I am certain a chuck would have far too much 'run out' to drill these holes.I intend to use them solely in the miller.They are very expensive at around ten pounds each,but are carbide and hopefully will last for a large number of holes.I have ordered a reel of 0.15mm copper wire for the nails.For scale purists,this equates to 9mm full size,so isn't miles away.

If anyone is in the market for some mega small drills(yes they do smaller ones than these   )the website is

 

http://www.drill-service.co.uk/index.asp

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[themadchemist]

Now that's some small drilling. Hopefully the mill and collet will help with bit breakage, I'd definitely feed it slowly as bit flex from too much down force is the only problem left, not sure how hard the pear is, but that price of the added drilling time will pay for itself if you break a bit at that price. ...and don't forget to cross your fingers

 

On the Vasa grating pic, Matti, I'm assuming that grating in the pic is a new piece due to the wood color.... I saved it and expanded it until digitization and you can clearly see double diagonal nailing, barely. Was there enough of the original grating to get that detail on the rebuilt, or are there other gratings that survived and showed the double nailing?

 

Nigel, good luck with this setup and at learning the nail rolling technique. I've considered trying it since reading its method, but haven't. Luckily now I can sit back and watch you work out all the bugs to the learning curve   

One thing I wonder and can't remember, the rolling technique I think would flair both ends. Did he use a cup burr to dress the end before cutting another. I would think that would help, otherwise both ends would have heads. I used a cup burr of the bow shroud bracket  and rudder nailing to get them to slide into the hole better. Just a though...

 

Seriously though, that is why your logs a jewel, for learning technique.....and great discussion... not just stealing ideas (but that too)

[NMBROOK]

Hi Keith

I used the rolling technique on Caroline for depicting bolts,it works fine,you just cut the double ended section in half to form the nails.The only thing is to keep pressure very light due to the softness of the copper.

Fingers and toes will be doubly crossed and the feed speed will be extremely slow.At around 800 holes per grating,it will be a long process  

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[NAZGÛL]

Keith,there looks to be enough parts on some of them to get a good idea of the construction.

 

 

/Matti

[rtropp]

Nigel,

I am checking my understanding because I think I will experiment with this techniques.  

You bought 1.8mm bits with 1.5mm wire. You will use the rolling technique with the 1.5mm wire.  

Why did you allow the extra 3mm between the hole (1.8mm) and the wire (1.5mm)?

Also, what tool did you use to roll the nail heads?

 

Thanks,

Richard

[egkb]

Emmm that's 0.3mm Richard .. think you have the old decimal place in the wrong spot     I've done it myself 

 

All The Best,

 

Eamonn

 

Hope you don't mind me answering part of the question guys..

Edited November 16, 2014 by egkb