ianmajor Posted January 16, 2016 #211 Posted January 16, 2016 Bring it on! Totally agree with you Mike. You should produce a good result with these modifications. The captain won't be happy because it reduces his cabin from the Corel ballroom to a realistic size. Martin W, Landlubber Mike, JohnB40 and 1 other 4 Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error.
Landlubber Mike Posted January 16, 2016 Author #212 Posted January 16, 2016 Thanks for the support Ian It will be interesting to see if I can come up with a somewhat decent replica. This afternoon I went and got the Lyme plans scaled down from 1:48 to 1:75 scale, made a few copies of them (for cut outs, templates, etc.) and had one set laminated. Figured it would be a lot easier working off scaled down plans rather than unrolling the original plans every time and converting the scale. The annoying thing is that the Corel plans show the ship facing left, while the NMM plans (and most others I think) have the ship facing right. Looking at the Lyme plans, it seems like at least the kit is very accurate with the distance between gunports 2 and 13 (the kit skips gunport 1). I was very happy to see that. We will see how accurate things are height wise, particularly with the sheer of the various decks which I think are not so accurate. At least for now I feel a lot more comfortable taking measurements off the plans to modify the stern and convert the ship to a rounded bow ship. It's too bad the Lyme didn't have a beakhead bow as it's a pretty neat look. For the stern, I've been looking at Chuck's instructions for the Confederacy (another beakhead ship!). I'm probably going to frame the stern very similarly to how he did the Confederacy, as its stern is very similar to the Lyme. He also has easy to follow techniques on how to frame the gunports and sweep ports. Unlike kits from Caldercraft and Amati which use plywood gunport patterns, Corel has you frame them along the bulkheads. Having gone through the gunport pattern process on my Badger and Pegasus builds, it will be interesting to see how the other technique is. As Ian would say, there's probably going to be a lot of surgery going on here. If you're squeamish, it might be a good idea to hide your eyes mtaylor, Martin W and JohnB40 3 Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)
Martin W Posted January 17, 2016 #213 Posted January 17, 2016 Cut away, Doctor Mike! These modifications look daunting, but you obviously have put some thought into the matter. And planning is the best first step. Know what you mean about planking burnout. Cheers, Martin Landlubber Mike and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Build: HMS FLY 1776 Previous Builds: Rattlesnake 1781 Prince de Neufchatel
Landlubber Mike Posted January 17, 2016 Author #214 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Well guys, I've decided to close this build log down and build the Lyme as a complete scratch build. Yesterday afternoon, I had the Lyme plans from the NMM copied and reduced to 1:75, and a set of originals and the 1:75 scale plans laminated. Later that evening, I spent five or so hours comparing the build and the Corel plans against the Lyme plans - a long night that ended in much disappointment. I was pretty encouraged in the beginning that the middle part of the ship was fairly consistent with the Lyme plans. Then I moved to the bow, and realized that the shape of the bow (using the kit keel), and the stem I had scratched earlier, was different from the Lyme bow. The kit's bow is pretty angular, whereas the Lyme's bow was more square. So, I figured I would be replacing the stem and stem post anyway, and would just have to figure out a way to modify the shape of the bow. Not too bad.... Things took a nasty turn when I went to measure the height of the upper deck off of the bottom of the keel. I knew the sweep of the decks in the kit were too high at the stern and so I was hoping that all I had to do was change the angle at the stern and possibly the stem and that was it. So, it would be pretty easy to measure up from the keel on the plans, and take some material from the bulkheads as need be. Big problem though - the height of the Corel kit is a lot higher than what the Lyme plans and even Chapman's plans suggest! I'm not talking by a few millimeters, but as much as 20mm+ from the keel to the bottom of the gunports in some places! With that discrepancy, I don't think I can fix things. It's going to be hard to measure up from the keel, as I don't have a solid reference point to measure from. That, with all the other work I would have to do to modify the kit, I've come to the realization that it would be a lot easier in the long run to build from scratch using the Lyme plans. I have the tools, and it shouldn't be too hard to cut a new keel and bulkheads from plywood. I already cut a new keel one to replace the badly warped one from the kit, so I have a little experience. So a lot of frustration right now, but in the long run, I think this would be the better course. I'll shut this log down and start a new one on the Scratch forum once I get started. I really love the look of the Lyme, and after all the research I've done, it would be a shame not to build it. I'm considering whether to build the Lyme in 1:75 or 1:48 - at 1:75, it's a pretty sizable model at around 3 feet in overall length. At 1:48, I'd have the opportunity to add a lot of cool detail but the model would push 4 feet in length. While figuring this out, in the meantime, I think I'm going to start the Charles Morgan as a parallel build to my Pegasus. I like having another model to turn to when I get fatigue or burn out and need a mental break. Stay tuned! Eventually I'll start a Lyme class build Edited January 17, 2016 by Landlubber Mike mtaylor, avsjerome2003, egkb and 2 others 5 Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)
ianmajor Posted January 17, 2016 #215 Posted January 17, 2016 Mike, A brave decision and one that Mark Taylor will empathise with. As I mentioned elsewhere I think your work here is not wasted. If you go for scratchbuilding the Lyme from the NMM plans you will achieve two of the top goals of scratchbuilding - accuracy and originality. You certainly have the skills to achieve this. mtaylor, Martin W and Landlubber Mike 3 Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error.
mtaylor Posted January 24, 2016 #216 Posted January 24, 2016 Empathize isn't word for it. I understand and embrace it. Mike, will you be reworking the bulkheads also as I'm gathering the lines are different? What you might give some thought to is your Pegasus for building, and then work on this one for planning, etc. (Yeah.. I want to see you scratchbuilding, my friend. I think you'll do a fantastic job of it. ) I'm curious why you picked 1:75 instead of 1:64? Martin W and Landlubber Mike 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Landlubber Mike Posted January 25, 2016 Author #217 Posted January 25, 2016 Hi Mark, thanks for commiserating my friend. I actually thought of you when shutting this one down The lines are different, so I will have to take them off the plans. What I plan on doing is first going through the Pegasus hull construction, then the Morgan hull construction, which requires some scratch building as you set the hull (and other things) up. I'm learning a ton from the Pegasus, and I imagine I'll learn even more from the Morgan. So when I start back up on the Lyme, I hope to be a little more knowledgeable and have a decent game plan. On the question of 1:75 versus 1:64, the kit is in 1:75, so I took the NMM plans of 1:48 and converted them to 1:75. I also copied a set at 1:48. 1:75 is a bit of an add scale, so I could change to 1:64. I kinda like the idea of trying it at 1:48, but that would require a lot of wood and space. I have some time to think about it. Martin W, ianmajor and JohnB40 3 Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)
Martin W Posted January 25, 2016 #218 Posted January 25, 2016 All right, Mike! Take it on! That is an exciting decision. I have always thought of a scratch build as the ultimate goal, but have felt daunted by my clumsiness & ignorance, so I'll be cheering you on. The scale is also an interesting question, and I agree heartily that 1:48 would allow for loads of detail -- and would be easier on the eyes; but four feet is pretty doggone big, and as I found out when I moved into a bigger house, that means more materials. But the payoff would be in the greater beauty and detail of the larger build. Good luck to you, Martin mtaylor and Landlubber Mike 2 Quote Current Build: HMS FLY 1776 Previous Builds: Rattlesnake 1781 Prince de Neufchatel
Landlubber Mike Posted January 25, 2016 Author #219 Posted January 25, 2016 All right, Mike! Take it on! That is an exciting decision. I have always thought of a scratch build as the ultimate goal, but have felt daunted by my clumsiness & ignorance, so I'll be cheering you on. The scale is also an interesting question, and I agree heartily that 1:48 would allow for loads of detail -- and would be easier on the eyes; but four feet is pretty doggone big, and as I found out when I moved into a bigger house, that means more materials. But the payoff would be in the greater beauty and detail of the larger build. Good luck to you, Martin Martin, I hear you on clumsiness and ignorance. Hopefully after two more kits (Pegasus and Morgan), I'll be ready for the Lyme. I also have the Euromodel FWZP on the shelf, so maybe I build that with the Lyme sometime in the future (at the rate I build, that will be 10 years from now). Good decision, Mike. I have plans of the LYME, so I'll be interested on how your scratch built version turns out by comparing to my plans. Montani semper liberi Happy modeling Crackers Crackers, see, I was hoping that by building the Lyme, nobody could point out what are sure to be many mistakes. Now that I hear you have the plans, I'm going to really have to up my game, thanks! Good thing I scrapped the earlier kit-based build! mtaylor, Martin W and avsjerome2003 3 Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)
mtaylor Posted January 25, 2016 #220 Posted January 25, 2016 The one nice thing about models ships is the ability to do-over. I hesitated a lot before deciding to jump in. The catch is, the more I'm working on my scratch build, the faster I'm learning. I'm on a first name basis with Scrap Box and more relaxed than when I did kits. I think it's knowing that I can make new parts and not be beholden to a kit maker for anything. I'll be quiet and just follow along with you.... You're making a good choice to do another model. But do beware. You've made that first step towards the darkside* by admitting that's where you want to be. When it finally grabs you, there's no fighting it. *Darkside = scratchbuilding. ianmajor, Landlubber Mike and Martin W 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Landlubber Mike Posted August 23, 2016 Author #221 Posted August 23, 2016 Chuck, is it possible to keep this log up? I might resurrect the build in the future, or at least, want to borrow/cut and paste items from it into a different log. Hope that's ok, I know you're trying to clean things up. Martin W and mtaylor 2 Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)
Thunder Posted September 18, 2016 #222 Posted September 18, 2016 What a great log and inspiration. I did a similar process with this kit and ended up selling it before starting as decided there was just too much work to make it more accurate. I don't understand these kit manufacturers surely it would be easier to do it correct when plans are available than make it up! Saying that, I moved on to the Caroline and ended up modifying her. mtaylor and Landlubber Mike 2 Quote Current Build(s): H.M.S Diana 1794 - Caldercraft 1:64 Scale Completed Builds: H.M.S. Cruiser 1797 - Caldercraft 1:64 Scale H.M. Naval Cutter Speedy 1828 - Model Shipwright 1:48 Royal Caroline 1749 - Panart 1:47 H.M. Brig Supply 1759 - Caldercraft 1:64 H.M.S. Pickle 1778 - Caldercraft 1:64 H.M.Y. Chatham 1741 - Caldercraft 1:64 H.M.S. Resolution Cutter - Corel 1:50 H.M.S. Racehorse - Sergal 1:47 (Renamed H.M.S. Thunder 1740) first wooden kit build.
harlequin Posted June 29, 2020 #223 Posted June 29, 2020 Hi Landlubber, Interesting thread about Unicorn.....I bought this kit for next to nothing and it is a very old version so I am going to continue it with no alterations and see what turns up. I had already noticed the curve on the transom so will see what happens when I alter the last bulkhead....I will continue to post pics in my thread. As it cost me only about £15.00 yes fifteen quid there is no real pressure regards wasting money if it all goes wrong. I am one of these builders that historical accuracy of the model doesn't bother me as much as others so can live with any liberties corel has made. Cheers. Old Collingwood 1 Quote
Landlubber Mike Posted June 29, 2020 Author #224 Posted June 29, 2020 12 hours ago, harlequin said: Hi Landlubber, Interesting thread about Unicorn.....I bought this kit for next to nothing and it is a very old version so I am going to continue it with no alterations and see what turns up. I had already noticed the curve on the transom so will see what happens when I alter the last bulkhead....I will continue to post pics in my thread. As it cost me only about £15.00 yes fifteen quid there is no real pressure regards wasting money if it all goes wrong. I am one of these builders that historical accuracy of the model doesn't bother me as much as others so can live with any liberties corel has made. Cheers. It's actually a nice kit with good components. If you add a stern post, and make some changes to the location of the figurehead and the quarter galleries, you can greatly improve the kit with little work. I just had a problem trying to convert it to the Lyme - couldn't transfer measurements from the Lyme plans to the hull because the measurements of the Unicorn differ considerably in some places from Chapman's Unicorn plans. Good luck! JohnB40, harlequin and Old Collingwood 3 Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)
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