HMS Snake by drtrap - Caldercraft

[drtrap]

On 8/8/2018 at 8:00 PM, davyboy said:

Hi drtrap,

They are the Topmast backstays,respectively from fore to aft.

The first is the Shifting Backstay.

The second is the Breast Backstay.

The third is the Standing Backstay which is set up with deadeyes.

I have checked Steels' dimensions of Standing and Running rigging,he quotes for a 6th rate ship

such as HMS Snake :-

4 1/2" rope for the Standing Topmast Backstay and the Shifting Backstay and 3" rope for the Breast Backstay

hence the two different sizes quoted on your plan for A and B. They have nothing to do with yards or running rigging.

I have just noticed that there is an almost identical arrangement on the Foremast except the Breast Backstay is further aft.

I hope this helps with your problem.

 

Kind regards,

 

Dave  

Hi Dave and thank you so much for your time to provide us such useful info!!

All the best.

 

Stergios

Edited August 9, 2018 by drtrap

[davyboy]

Hi Stergios,you are welcome. I'm happy to have been of help to you.

 

Kind regards,

 

Dave 

[drtrap]

Hi guys.

Still working on the main-mast back stays...

This time I'm trying to figure out the right arrangement between backstays lines and  belaying pins.

I think that the respective "dock-numbers" on the plan are wrong.

Any idea?

[Davemc]

I cannot remember if the numbers on the plan were correct or not but I soon learned not to seal and trim the lines as after all were fitted I had to go around and re-tension a number of them.

 

Dave

[drtrap]

1 hour ago, Davemc said:

I cannot remember if the numbers on the plan were correct or not but I soon learned not to seal and trim the lines as after all were fitted I had to go around and re-tension a number of them.

 

Dave

Thank you Dave

I try to keep some lines loose but it's too difficult to preserve the tension you want especially between "co-operated" fittings..  

 

 

In the mean time I'm seeing that i forgot to place and fix that cleat (mentioned as No 5 for the line of main mast back stay)....

No happy at all to do it now, especially between the carronades and other structures in place... 

Edited September 30, 2018 by drtrap

[drtrap]

7 hours ago, drtrap said:

Thank you Dave

I try to keep some lines loose but it's too difficult to preserve the tension you want especially between "co-operated" fittings..  

 

 

In the mean time I'm seeing that i forgot to place and fix that cleat (mentioned as No 5 for the line of main mast back stay)....

No happy at all to do it now, especially between the carronades and other structures in place... 

Hopefully I recall from memory a couple of posts of those days between me, Jason and Jim....

No 5 bulwark cleat is a plan error. 

So glad to realize (again) it.!!

 

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by drtrap

[Beef Wellington]

Greeting Stergios, not sure if this helps.   I remember being very confused by this myself.  Here is what I did to solve the problem, I can't guarantee it is the correct solution, but sharing in case it gives you a better idea.  You can see its still work in progress!

 

[drtrap]

13 hours ago, Beef Wellington said:

Greeting Stergios, not sure if this helps.   I remember being very confused by this myself.  Here is what I did to solve the problem, I can't guarantee it is the correct solution, but sharing in case it gives you a better idea.  You can see its still work in progress!

 

Hi Jason

I'm affraid there is no space now to create a hole to fix a deck (?) cleat without a risk for the other fittings...

My 2nd choise is to find a possible "free" belaying pin to attach line 5...

 

Btw, any news from Jim?

Edited October 1, 2018 by drtrap

[drtrap]

Another question of interest for the backstays...

Should I place them served or not (around the mast)?

Should I place them one by one or as a pair?

Thank you.

[jim_smits]

Hi Stergios

I can double check my build tonight when I get home from work. 

Jim

[davyboy]

Hi Stergios,here is a little cheating you can do. The shifting and standing backstays are the same size of rope,use a long enough piece and sieze them around the masthead thus you have two of your stays for each side. I would make separate breast backstays unless you can do or imitate a cut splice and fit them under the other 2 stays. There is nothing in Lees about serving these stays but that doesn't mean they were not,up to you there

 

Dave

Edited October 15, 2018 by davyboy

[Beef Wellington]

Hi Stergios, I followed the same principle for the other stays.  i.e. where a pair is possible on each side, these were looped and seized around the mast top.  Where a single is necessary, a false splice was made to make a loop to go over the mast top.

[drtrap]

On 10/15/2018 at 4:32 PM, jim_smits said:

Hi Stergios

I can double check my build tonight when I get home from work. 

Jim

Hi Jim, so glad to hear from you.

Keep in touch !

Edited October 18, 2018 by drtrap

[drtrap]

Dave, Jason thank you so much for your replies.

For the moment I'm thinking to place one by one those backstays. I made a false splice, served loop around the mast..

The painful step is to seize the loops on the model...

 

Kindest regards!

Edited October 18, 2018 by drtrap

[jim_smits]

7 hours ago, drtrap said:

Hi Jim, so glad to hear from you.

Keep in touch !

Hi stergios,

For current events please see my post in Shore Leave!

[davyboy]

Hi Stergios,

Assuming your mast cap is not yet glued on here's what I would do. Get a piece of wood of the same size as the masthead,sieze  your shrouds around that then just transfer them onto the masthead. No chance of doing any damage to the model then.

 

Dave 

[jim_smits]

Hi Stergios

Having checked my Snake (currently in attic...), the cleat is as per Jason’s. For your problem I would just use the adjacent belaying pin as it is a “spare”.

As for the backstays, I think i did each one as an individual stay with a false splice, but don’t quote me as it was three years ago (wow!)

[drtrap]

13 hours ago, davyboy said:

Hi Stergios,

Assuming your mast cap is not yet glued on here's what I would do. Get a piece of wood of the same size as the masthead,sieze  your shrouds around that then just transfer them onto the masthead. No chance of doing any damage to the model then.

 

Dave 

Hi Dave.

Unfortunatelly all the masts and their wood fittings are glued in place so many days ago....

I'll try to seize the false splices in place using my microsurgical skills

Thank you again. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by drtrap

[drtrap]

1 hour ago, jim_smits said:

Hi Stergios

Having checked my Snake (currently in attic...), the cleat is as per Jason’s. For your problem I would just use the adjacent belaying pin as it is a “spare”.

As for the backstays, I think i did each one as an individual stay with a false splice, but don’t quote me as it was three years ago (wow!)

Thank you Jim, I did the same

Cheers

[drtrap]

5 hours ago, jim_smits said:

Hi stergios,

For current events please see my post in Shore Leave!

"Shore leave" ?? 

What's this?

[jim_smits]

2 hours ago, drtrap said:

"Shore leave" ?? 

What's this?

The “Shore Leave” section of the forum. 

Its for non-build Chat....

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Breast backstays have always confused ship model builders and the reason why, I think, is that the most common way of diagraming the rigging is the side-view elevation drawing that depicts the ship as seen from the side. The disposition of the breast backstays assures that they are difficult or impossible to see since they are directly in line with the Mast on these drawings and the lines which represent them fall right over the lines in the drawing that represent the Mast. I’m certain that these very common pieces of standing rigging wind up being completely omitted from many rigging diagrams due to this issue- the people copying the diagrams don’t notice their presence and thus leave them out. From that point on, everyone examining these follow-on flawed drawings remain unaware of the omission. 

[drtrap]

Thank you for your detailed comment.

Cheers

Stergios

On 10/19/2018 at 3:37 PM, JerseyCity Frankie said:

Breast backstays have always confused ship model builders and the reason why, I think, is that the most common way of diagraming the rigging is the side-view elevation drawing that depicts the ship as seen from the side. The disposition of the breast backstays assures that they are difficult or impossible to see since they are directly in line with the Mast on these drawings and the lines which represent them fall right over the lines in the drawing that represent the Mast. I’m certain that these very common pieces of standing rigging wind up being completely omitted from many rigging diagrams due to this issue- the people copying the diagrams don’t notice their presence and thus leave them out. From that point on, everyone examining these follow-on flawed drawings remain unaware of the omission. 

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by drtrap

[drtrap]

Hi guys, right now a couple of pics from my recent step by step progress.

Just finished the backstays and I'm ready to proceed with the fastening of the lines to the belaying pins and the respective rope coils.

I feel that section as a more secure step before I turn to the bowstrip, the running rigging and the final yards assembly.

Thank you.

[Beef Wellington]

Nice work Stergios, looks great.

[nickolas77]

 

 

 

 

you accomplish it, great!! 

nice work!! (bravo!!)

[drtrap]

Thank you guys.

Now this is my personal point of view regarding the pinrail coils.

I prefer to demonstrate my step by step method as I usually use to do showing a couple of consecutive pics just for the followers of the technique. 

I think these pics even in 90 clockwise degrees of unexpected uploading say much more than words and typing in general...

Cheers.

[drtrap]

And here are the preliminary results.

 

[Beef Wellington]

Very nice looking coils Stergios.

[drtrap]

Ι have just finished the tackles for the fore-mast main stay and preventer stay. I left the middle mast cleat alone and belayed the other two cleats (named as No 2 and 4 by myshelf), I hope without next problems with the other lines....

 

The standing rigging of the basic masts of the ship is over. Now three last major sections left:

1) the bowsprit and its structures

2) the gaft boom etc and the relative stern structures rigging, and

3) the yards final “upload” and placement to the masts.

What’s your recommendation on my next step to follow? Trying to keep myshelf all the time at the safe side of the building which from the above different stages should I follow?

 

Thank you in advance

Stergios

 

PS: I really can not understand what kind of line/rope is that next to line "F". Is it a standing rigging line or something I can't make clear? Thanks again.

Edited February 19, 2019 by drtrap