Harvey 1812 by Floyd Kershner - Artesania Latina - 1:48 - 1812 Baltimore Clipper

[fnkershner]

About 25 years ago I bought this kit in a Hobby store in CA. It has been through 2 moves since and we are preparing to move again, and I will temporarily loose my shop. So I thought it was high time to finish something. Along the way I have lost a few pieces and picked up another copy of this kit off of ebay.

 

Before the forum upgrade there were a couple build logs of this kit. Unfortunately I don't see them now. I became very discouraged when I relalized the significant errors in this kit. This is AL's version of the Baltimore Clipper. This is a period of US history in which I am very interested. Even the historical information is pure fantasy. But enough about the flaws. It is still an attractive model.

 

There was also a build log here that really inspired me. It was a Kit bash of this kit and renamed the Lady Anne. This is what got me to restart. She will be the Lady Caroline (the admiral's name is Carol).

 

So let us begin -

 

 

[fnkershner]

Well I am just getting started so there isn't much to show yet.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[fnkershner]

I have finished the first layer of planking and added filler. The instructions say to lay 2 rows of planks from the deck down. I laiad 1 and then started with the garboard strake. I had 3 stealers in the stern and I probably should have had at least 1 drop plank in the bow.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[fnkershner]

Next I planked the deck. again the intructions say to add the waterway, bulwarks, & 2nd planking. Then add the stem & Keel. I decided that the Keel would need a bit of reinforcing and the 2nd layer of planking would not look right without installing the keel first. So I drilled small holes thru the keel, Stem, & prow. I then inserted T pins & cut them flush. I used PVA almost everywhere. But I used CA on the pins to make sure the pins held in the former. I also took this opportunity to drill holes for the long screws for the pedistals I am going to use for mounting.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[fnkershner]

Ok while the glue dries let me take a slight detour and take advantage of all the wisdom on this forum. The picture below shows the deck plans according to the kit. There are many problems with these plans. I intend to make significant changes and I would like to hear from all of you. So let me walk you from bow to stern on the issues and then list Ideas I have for modifications.

 

1. At the bow there is a hand crank to raise the anchor. This uses chain over a round drum and if it was to scale would only allow 4 men to crank. I intentionally do not call this a windlass. This should be a true windlass. Also I doubt they used Chain for the anchor. This would have been quite expensive.

 

2. There are outhouses on the bow. And they are completely out of scale. I don't know of any ship of this period that had outhouses on the deck.

 

3. The ship's bell is mounted on the bow sprit. When it should be aft near the helm.

 

4. The foot of the Bowsprit is not secured enough to take the strain of this rig.

 

5. The fife rail on the foremast (& main mast) should be aft of the mast not forward. We need to take into accout the rake of the mast.

 

So these are the problems just from the bow to the Foremast. Now from Foremast to Main

 

6. We have a huge Grating with shot garlands along each edge. Gratings were for ventilation. What are we ventilating? This is more likely should be a Cargo Hatch or similar. The shot garlands are too far from the cannons.

 

7. The Elm Tree pumps are too far forward to do much good. They should be closer to the main mast so that they reach to the bottom of the bilge.

 

8. Again we have another grating. not likely for this ship.

 

9. Again the fife rail is backwards

 

(got inturrupted by the phone)

 

Now from the Main to the Stern the following problems exisit -

 

10. We have a main cabin with sky lights the full length of the roof - Unlikely

 

11. we have a Capstan that is so close to the companion way it would never turn. And why is the Capstain aft of all the rigging? And why have a Capstain at all. This ship had a crew of maybe 60. It is more likley that it would have only a windlass.

 

12. Now we have a hatch aft of the capstan. Really? what is stored here? There isn't much hold space.

 

13. Lastly we have a bench that passes for a binacle. but quite unlike any binacle I have ever seen.

 

 

14. Oh and yes, thanks to CapnHarv the cannons are out of place as well. They should be further forward where the bouyancy could support the weight.

 

So now I begin the task of resdesigning the deck furniture.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[fnkershner]

Note to Moderators - I can't seem to find out how to edit the title of this Thread. I mistakenly said Corel when I should have said AL.

[slagoon]

Floyd, go to the first post you made and click edit.  If your "Theme" spectrum, dimension, whatever, doesn't s how you the edit button you will need to hover just above the first reply to get it to show up.  I look forward to seeing this built. I think the Harvey may be similar to the shape of the Agilis I'm researching...so I may borrow some of how you do the hull.

[fnkershner]

Thanks Sarah! You should come to our next meeting. I would love to compare notes.

[slagoon]

The next meeting is March ##? Since I work every other weekend (like I was working yesterday) it is really hit and miss if I can go.  Are you going to be putting any of your finished models in the contests I mentioned in the "meetups/events" thread?

[fnkershner]

So after listing all the shortcoming of these plans. Let me walk thru the changes I am mulling over and get feedback and suggestions.

 

1. Of course I will create a true Windlass if I can find some plans or a diagram.

 

2. The outhouses go. Maybe replaced by cannons. At any rate the last pair of cannons will be removed and placed further forward.

 

3. Likely Mount the ships bell on the Main mast.

 

4. Have the bow sprit go thru the deck and at least appear to be tied to the foremast or something under the deck.

 

5. Switch the fife rails to be a U shape crossing aft of the masts.

 

6. Install a stove Pipe for the cook forward of the Foremast. I haven't decided what else should go forward of the foremast I would love suggestions. Maybe a small grating for ventilation.

 

7. Between the masts I will create a large main Hatch. not sure about anything else. The cannon shot will be moved closer to the cannons themselves.

 

8. Move the pumps closer the the Main Mast.

 

9. Enlarge the Cabin to be most of the space from the main mast to the tiller. Redesign the companion way to be more accurate.

 

10. Remove the capstan and the Hatch aft of the capstan.

 

11. Redesign the binnacle.

 

12. Add preventer tackle to the tiller.

 

If anyone sees something I have missed please share.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[fnkershner]

Sarah the next meeting is March 16th. I saw your post about Galaxy I will give it a go.

[slagoon]

Yay I can probably attend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Your bashing plans sure sound interesting.

[mtaylor]

Floyd,

 

My only comments would be 1) the bell could be forward or aft.  Check the spacing on the stove pipe.  It could be behind the foremast as many time, there's no room in front of it below the weather deck.  Otherwise, go for it!!!!

[fnkershner]

Thanks Mark, any suggestions on the design of the Windlass & Binnacle? Also what would you suggest between the masts besides a Main hatch and stove pipe? I am guessing that there should be a grating for ventilation near the stove pipe. What do you think?

[Trussben]

Very interesting Floyd, I built the Harvey several years ago and gave it to a friend, unfortunately he had a house fire and everything was lost.

 

Your bash list seems quite comprehensive and I look forward to following your build.

 

Ben

[Nirvana]

Looking good Floyd,

Which keel set did you go with?

[Lord Robster]

Hey Floyd

 

Sorry I missed you last weekend.  My daughter was home from college so we had a day with her.  See you at the next meeting.

 

Good start on the Harvey.  Looks like you have a lot of questions to get answered before you can start on the deck furnishings huh.  Sorry I can't help you there.

 

Well, just thought I'd drop by and say good job.

 

Rob

[fnkershner]

Ben - Since you built her, do you have any suggestions or comments? Did you include those outhouses? Did you do any modifications?

 

Per - It turns out that there is about 1/4" difference in the length of the 2 hulls. So I had no choice. This has also proved to be a challenge with the Bulwarks. I was going to use the bulwarks from the older kit since they are 1 piece. But they don't fit! Grrr

 

Rob - Good to hear from you. You were missed. But I still have a kit for both you & your son.  By the next meeting we will have a rope walk. So you can make real scale rope for the shrouds and anchor line on your Bluenose. By the way you sure put a smile on the Admiral when I mentioned selling you those kits.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[fnkershner]

Small bit of progress - The Waterways are now on. The Bulwarks are made of plywood so no good to soak them. I am cutting new bulwarks out of balsa that is 1/32" thick. Also it appears that the bulwarks are approx 1/4" short. This is going to be interesting. After the bulwarks we begin the 2nd layer of planking.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[bhermann]

Hi, Floyd.  I will be watching this build we great interest.  ALs Harvey is one of the dismal failures from my sordid past.  Picked up as an impulse buy at Mystic Seaport, I managed to get the keel and bulkheads installed and the false deck attached.  I them proceeded to first plank the hull with the material meant for the deck planking.  I didn't know anything about wood at the time and the kit instructions read something like "the wood for first planking is so flexible you can tie it knots" so I grabbed the most flexible stuff in the box.

 

I will watch your build and live vicariously through your reporting.  Have fun, and use the ramin wood in the correct place

 

Bob

[fnkershner]

Bob - I know what you mean. As I say in my log this was one of my first kits too. I started and stopped a couple times. Mostly discouraged by the design and instruction errors.

[Trussben]

Hi Floyd, Let me see this weekend if I can find the old external HDD that has all the photos of my previous builds, If I can find it I will post some pics on the forum, maybe in the gallery of them all. AL Swift, AL Scottish Maid, AL Harvey, AL San Juan Nempo.

I do remember that I stayed pretty much with the plans though and hardly did any bashing to Harvey.

 

ben

[fnkershner]

Thanks Ben, I know it may be in the dim dark past but I would love to here a few details from your experience. For example right now I am trying to figure out how best to install the bulwarks. As I mention they are made from Plywood and are likely to delaminate if I soak them. They also are too short. But my biggest concern is how to clamp them in place. There is very little wood to bond to and I am trying to figure out a method of clamping to hold them while the glue sets. Also related to this. How did you join the 2 sides of bulwarks together at the bow. lots of bending force there. I am considering some sort of block for the bow. And finally how to join the aft Bulwark piece to the sides? It needs to be planked both inside and outside before attaching the supports.

 

Yes Sarah I am dreaming of my build and trying to visualize the solutions to these problems before I get to the shop.

[Desert_Sailor]

Not knowing any better... I built this " Harvey"  right out of the box  - no modifications

[fnkershner]

Desert Sailor - Thanks so much for this. Can you tell me approx. what year you completed this Kit. It appears there are significant differences from my kit. Also is your ships boat Plastic? Mine is a plank on frame kit by its self.

[fnkershner]

Ok, its time to post this weekend's progress. (admiral wants to go to a concert so there will not be much progress today.) I mentioned before the bulwarks are made of 4 pieces of thin plywood and are likely to delaminate if soaked in water. Also I could just see the issues of having to line up 2 different pieces at midships. So I created 1 full length piece out of 1/32" Balsa. Now I know that the next step should have been to begin the 2nd layer of planking. But as I started to line off the bulkheads. I became very concerned with how fragile those Bulwarks were. So I decided to reverse things a bit and plank the bulwarks.

 

The plans call for planking the bluwarks inside and out with the same strips as the 2nd layer of the hull. This is when I ran into a major problem. There was not enough wood! I counted out the strips and there was only enough to plank the hull below the deckline and no extra! God bless my Jim Saw. I found a piece of Walnut that was close to the same color etc. and I made myself enough planks to plank the bulwarks. I used the micrometer attachment to get the strips down to .75 mm. It worked beautifully. This was the first time I had used my slitting blade.

 

I also had long ago decided this model would not have any paint. it was going to have all of its color from the wood used to build it. So I decided to plank the inside of the Bulwarks with a lighter wood and a different color from the deck. I used some leftover deck planking from another kit.

 

You will also see that I took the opportunity to install the knees for the Transom. I am planking that now.

 

The last time I worked on this model many years ago. I wanted to try my hand at tapering the masts using the electric drill lathe. So my final picture shows her on the stand with the masts and bow sprit in place. This will also give the admiral an idea how much space she needs to find in the house.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[fnkershner]

Rats, I can see I need to work on my photography. The Flash washes everything out.

[Desert_Sailor]

I built mine in ~2007-2008  ..  I sent teh instruction booklet and plan to a MSW member in the UK about 18 months ago so I can't really tell you when the kit was made..  But the markings on your box were similar to mine  "Harvey 1847.."

 

My life boat was cast metal... I added some details like the benches and oars ..

 

The hardest part was making sure all the gun ports were aligned.. and the scuppers were positioned properly..(i.e just above the deck line)

 

Edited March 4, 2013 by Desert_Sailor

[fnkershner]

I beleive yours was the 3rd version of this kit. I have both of the first 2 versions. In both of my versions there is no provision for scuppers.

[fnkershner]

Ok Another week has gone by and another wonderful weekend spent in the Boat shed. Let me post this week's progress. As mentioned before I was concerned about the flimsy nature of the balsa Bulwarks so I planked them inside and out. I then moved on to preparing for the 2nd layer of planking. This is when I found that I didn't have enough wood strips. I put out a note to my friends in the local club and I believe I may have my strips at next week's club meeting.

 

But not wanting a weekend to be wasted. I decided to cut out the cannon ports and install the Bulwark Stantions. I also planked the inside of the transom and installed it Along with the stern knees. Well while cutting out the cannon ports I found that the Bulwarks are only held in place by the slimest of Balsa. Not good! So I had to install the Stantions, the Breast plate, & the cap rail. All of this added strength to the Bulwarks. Currently the caprail is drying after being soaked and shaped. I also lined the gun ports with walnut. I hope to install it tonight. in the last picture you will also see I have started to cut the hole for the Catheads just for fun.

 

Hopefully next weekend will be when I get to the 2nd layer of planking!

Edited March 11, 2013 by Floyd Kershner