HMS Royal William by KeithW - Euromodel - 1/72

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

Great idea about making temporary bulkheads and the extra 1st planking inside! She looks great

Cheers

Greg

[Keith_W]

Arghhhhhhhh I made a major blunder! 

 

 

When I test fit the fo'c'sle, I saw that the deck ends well ahead of bulkhead F. Given that bulkhead F is tapered with respect to bulkhead E, you would THINK that the planks ahead should be curved. So I indeed curved my planks ahead of bulkhead F, following the line of the main deck. As you can see from my diagram, the green line I have added shows my planks curving underneath where the deck is supposed to end. 

 

A quick check of the plans confirmed that I had indeed made a serious error. Now I faced a choice of terminating the deck early, or trying to bulk up the bow planking to accommodate the fo'c'sle deck. 

 

I chose to do the latter. Which meant that I faced an additional problem of how to fair the planks in without distorting the shape of the bow too much. I pored over pictures of the completed ship, which at least assured me that mistakes here would be covered by the beakhead rails. I also studied closely other build logs on MSW for help. So far nobody has mentioned this issue. 

 

Oh well. 

 

 

I started bulking up the planks by laying strips of second planking material.

 

 

Once done, I trimmed it back. 

 

 

I think it looks OK!

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

G'day Keith.

What a delamere for you! I think you made the right decision. Attached is a photo I found that might help you. After the fo'c'sle deck there seem to be an almost vertical cut off to the 'bow deck'. On yours it seems to be more of a curve.

I might be wrong, just trying to help.

 

Greg

[Keith_W]

Thanks Greg! The extra wood is there to allow me space to trim it back once I test fit the beakhead rails. I have not done that yet. 

[jbshan]

This model is in the collection of the US Navy Academy.  Hope it helps.

 

http://nauticalhistory.weebly.com/100-gun-royal-william-of-1719.html

 

Joel Sanborn

[pirozzi]

Thanks for the link. Those photos will help alot.

 

Vince P.

 

This model is in the collection of the US Navy Academy.  Hope it helps.

 

http://nauticalhistory.weebly.com/100-gun-royal-william-of-1719.html

 

Joel Sanborn

[Keith_W]

Thanks for the likes, everyone. I have a little update. Some of the stuff I talk about might be really boring for those of you not building this ship, but i'm putting it out there for the benefit of other RW builders. 

 

 

I drew the waterline, then masked it off and painted the bottom white. I first applied 3 coats of Tamiya's white primer, sanding down each layer with 400 grit sandpaper. I then applied four dilute coats of Vallejo "Ivory White", again sanding down each coat. It is now really smooth! 

 

 

 

I just LOVE removing masking tape, it's better than opening Christmas presents! I was rewarded by a clean paint line. If I DIDN'T get a clean paint line, I would have had to sand it down and paint again. I allowed 48 hours for the paint to cure, then wrapped the whole thing up in masking tape again to protect the white finish while I work on the rest of the boat. 

 

 

I then moved on to tackle the transom support. This involves carving two pre-shaped pieces down to the correct size.

 

Keith Julier calls this the most challenging area of the build. Piratepete's "interpretative info" devotes 8 pages to discussing this subject. Indeed, the shaping of the rear transom support is not easy and is NOT helped by the plans giving a completely misleading suggestion of the profiles of pieces no. 54 and 55. The true shape of the lower support piece Part. 55 is hinted at by looking at Plan Sheet No.8, but even that does not reveal its exact shape because it is shown hidden under metal decorations (more to say about the accuracy of these plans in a moment). Indeed, if you take a look at the diagram above, it would appear that the suggested taper on Part. 55 is fairly gentle. 

NOT SO! Take a look at PiratePete's I-I. Observe the severe taper on the lower piece: 

 

 

It is as I suspected. There is no way to correctly determine the shape of this transom piece prior to shaping it. This SHOULD cause considerable anxiety, because the metal decorations have to fit in the space above it. Get the shape and thickness of this wrong, and you will either overcrowd your metal pieces, or have empty spaces in between! 

 

The only way to correctly determine the shape would be to test fit the metal arch decorations which should be attached to Part. 55. So I got them out of the bag. 

 

 

Uh-oh. The plans (which are supposed to be a 1:1 reproduction of the ship) indicates that the height of the arch should be 12mm. But the metal pieces supplied by Euromodel are 9.5mm. Right, so I can't trust that the metal pieces supplied will actually correspond with the plans, then! Talk about flying blind! 

* And yes I am aware that both Julier and Pete say that the plans indicate a scratch built model. However, it would have saved considerable anxiety if Euromodel had produced parts that actually fit the plans or vice-versa in the first place. 

 

 

I decided to work out the correct dimensions needed by using some maths. Above is the transom support piece which has been shaved internally so that it fits the model. I have supplied dimensions of the piece as supplied by Euromodel. You can also see that I have painted the side white to help make it easier to see any markings I need to make on the piece. 

 

 

The last time I touched Pythagorean theorem and trigonometry was in high school, more than 20 years ago ... so I was a little nervous about doing these calculations. It looks as if the width of the piece (40mm as supplied by Euromodel), should be reduced to (21mm + allowance for curvature of the metal arch + allowance for support piece 56). I will bring it down to 30mm as a start, then check everything for fit. 

 

I do have a question. Pete indicates in his I-I that metal railings (Part 11247) can be fit in a channel carved into Part 55. I have no such metal railings in my collection of parts. Is this something that has been deleted? Brian? VinceP? Denis?

Edited February 1, 2015 by KeithW

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

Keith

OMG .......I'm glad it's you doing this and not me! It's a nightmare (I bet you had some in past couple of nights).

keep on plugging along and I'm sure it will turn out right.

 

Greg

Edited March 18, 2015 by Greg the peg leg sailor

[maggsl_01]

Oooops...

 

I will do the Friedrich Wilhelm in about one and a half year (when I have finished the Endeavour, which I will start next month...) I heared and read about the special crafts that are necessary at least by reading Piratepetes interpretive manual... But to watch you getting along with this challenge is quite different to just thinking about it...

 

I see... this will be really a heavy job -  but I am looking Forward

 

Cheerio

 

Max

[BANYAN]

The build is coming along nicely Keith, and a wealth of information being shared.

 

One small note of caution though - watch the masking tape on the painted lower hull - the longer you leave it there the more likely the gum will adhere to the paint and discolour or mark it.  I would consider removing the tape from the paint altogether and mask above the paint line using heavy duty paper or the like to cover the painted area?

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited February 2, 2015 by BANYAN

[pirozzi]

Thanks for the likes, everyone. I have a little update. Some of the stuff I talk about might be really boring for those of you not building this ship, but i'm putting it out there for the benefit of other RW builders. 

 

241C2405.JPG

 

I drew the waterline, then masked it off and painted the bottom white. I first applied 3 coats of Tamiya's white primer, sanding down each layer with 400 grit sandpaper. I then applied four dilute coats of Vallejo "Ivory White", again sanding down each coat. It is now really smooth! 

 

241C2407.JPG 241C2409.JPG

 

I just LOVE removing masking tape, it's better than opening Christmas presents! I was rewarded by a clean paint line. If I DIDN'T get a clean paint line, I would have had to sand it down and paint again. I allowed 48 hours for the paint to cure, then wrapped the whole thing up in masking tape again to protect the white finish while I work on the rest of the boat. 

 

241C2414.JPG

 

I then moved on to tackle the transom support. This involves carving two pre-shaped pieces down to the correct size.

 

Keith Julier calls this the most challenging area of the build. Piratepete's "interpretative info" devotes 8 pages to discussing this subject. Indeed, the shaping of the rear transom support is not easy and is NOT helped by the plans giving a completely misleading suggestion of the profiles of pieces no. 54 and 55. The true shape of the lower support piece Part. 55 is hinted at by looking at Plan Sheet No.8, but even that does not reveal its exact shape because it is shown hidden under metal decorations (more to say about the accuracy of these plans in a moment). Indeed, if you take a look at the diagram above, it would appear that the suggested taper on Part. 55 is fairly gentle. 

 

NOT SO! Take a look at PiratePete's I-I. Observe the severe taper on the lower piece: 

 

Comparison.jpg

 

It is as I suspected. There is no way to correctly determine the shape of this transom piece prior to shaping it. This SHOULD cause considerable anxiety, because the metal decorations have to fit in the space above it. Get the shape and thickness of this wrong, and you will either overcrowd your metal pieces, or have empty spaces in between! 

 

The only way to correctly determine the shape would be to test fit the metal arch decorations which should be attached to Part. 55. So I got them out of the bag. 

 

241C2411.JPG

 

Uh-oh. The plans (which are supposed to be a 1:1 reproduction of the ship) indicates that the height of the arch should be 12mm. But the metal pieces supplied by Euromodel are 9.5mm. Right, so I can't trust that the metal pieces supplied will actually correspond with the plans, then! Talk about flying blind! 

 

* And yes I am aware that both Julier and Pete say that the plans indicate a scratch built model. However, it would have saved considerable anxiety if Euromodel had produced parts that actually fit the plans or vice-versa in the first place. 

 

241C2415.JPG

 

I decided to work out the correct dimensions needed by using some maths. Above is the transom support piece which has been shaved internally so that it fits the model. I have supplied dimensions of the piece as supplied by Euromodel. You can also see that I have painted the side white to help make it easier to see any markings I need to make on the piece. 

 

part55.png

 

The last time I touched Pythagorean theorem and trigonometry was in high school, more than 20 years ago ... so I was a little nervous about doing these calculations. It looks as if the width of the piece (40mm as supplied by Euromodel), should be reduced to (21mm + allowance for curvature of the metal arch + allowance for support piece 56). I will bring it down to 30mm as a start, then check everything for fit. 

 

I do have a question. Pete indicates in his I-I that metal railings (Part 11247) can be fit in a channel carved into Part 55. I have no such metal railings in my collection of parts. Is this something that has been deleted? Brian? VinceP? Denis?

Hi Keith,

You are doing a great job! I do know that the kit has been modified since Pete worked on his. There are some parts changed and deleted. I do not know about the railings, but will check my pile of parts and let you know. I think Denis ordered the missing parts from Euromodel.

Vince

[DenPink]

Hi Keith

 

I have looked in my "RW" kit and you are correct part 11247 is missing.

 

Also parts 11248 and 11249.

 

You can get them of the Euro web site.

 

Denis.

 

[piratepete007]

John,

All kits contain a printed parts list and if you look at the Euromodel website under customer assistance for any ship, you will find a file termed 'Resource' and that also contains a parts list.

 

Pete

[Keith_W]

Gentlemen, that part you are referring to is a square walnut strip which was supplied in the box for you to shape to that profile. 

 

 

Ahh, I see. I must have missed the part in the instructions where they indicated that a substitution had been made. You see, p.26 of the Royal William Interpretive Info says this: 

 

 

I guess I could be forgiven for hunting for those strips in the metal part bags  

[piratepete007]

Pleased that some people are looking at what I wrote - just remember that it is far from prescriptive, just interpretive. I shudder when I look back at this stuff written so many years ago but still .......

Pete

[Keith_W]

Thanks, Geoff! 

Pete, I use resources from where I can find it. Your I-I has the largest wealth of detailed photographs of various aspects of the ship, as well as lots of notes about pitfalls to look out for and suggestions for builds. It is invaluable! However, as you can see from my build, I do take my own measurements, make my own decisions, and warn others of problems I have encountered. My build order is totally different to yours and Juliers, because I decided early on that the plans and the kit was not to be trusted and I would take reference off features which I had already built into the hull, rather than trust the plans fully. 

[piratepete007]

Hi Keith - your incredible work leaves me breathless and I must congratulate you. I keep looking at your posts and whow ! Such finess, such patience, such detail. My contributions that I keep posting on Euromodel were only ever designed to assist people make a start but all that fades into the background. I look forward to seeing the complete ship.

Pete

[Keith_W]

Thanks Pete, and thank you everyone else for the likes! 

 

As preparation for tackling the dreaded Part 54 and 55, I did a study of the various angles of the various features of the transom, to help shape and locate these parts: 

 

 

This study locates the rearmost lip of Parts. 54 and 55 with respect to the inclination of the transom. Note that (2) part 55 is exactly in line with with an imaginary line drawn down from the transom, whilst part 54 is projects outwards slightly. Also note that the angle of the lower deck is not the same as the angle of the transom! In fact, Part 54 (which starts significantly below the lower deck) ends up being 5mm below the lower deck at its rearmost projection. 

 

 

This study looks at the various angles of the decks, wales, and features. Note that Pete's interpretive-info admonishes the builder to incline the transom at the same angle as the wales. This advice is 100% correct.

 

Note also the optical illusion that the higher decks seem to slope less than the lower decks. This was certainly the impression I got when I looked at the plans. Not so! The angle DOES change, but only by 1 degree! 

 

I then transferred all these angles to my model, with the aid of a square and a protractor. 

 

 

As you can see, the marking which I made was more or less spot on. 

 

 

I then proceeded to carve Part 54. I made a paper template of the arch decoration to help obtain the correct shape. Marks were made on the part to stop me from sanding beyond those boundaries. 

 

Other RW builders might feel a sense of dread after reading Julier's description of his difficulty with this part. But then, I have something that Julier doesn't have! (No, it's no talent). I have a Byrnes Disc Sander! All I needed to do was dial in the angles on the sander, then push the part in. Easy-peasy! 

 

 

Within 30 minutes, I had achieved this! Perfectly uniform and smooth. The metal arch template fit perfectly. To say I am delighted would be an understatement. I would kiss my Byrnes disc sander if I wasn't so afraid that it would sand my lips off. 

 

Having successfully shaped this part, I would like to share these observations with fellow RW builders: 

 

1. The thickness of the part as supplied by Euromodel is absolutely correct - 18mm. Do not thin this piece any further. 

2. The plan view of the part is also absolutely correct. DO NOT ALTER the plan view. 

3. The lower outline of Part 55 can be obtained by aligning transom support piece 56 (supplied as laser cut mahogany ply) with the notch on Part 55. 

4. The angle obtained by the above procedure, using a line drawn from the outer edge of Part 56 to the lower 3mm lip margin of Part 55, is 26° (when viewed from the rear), and about 70° (when viewed from the side)

5. Make sure you shape the piece internally before attempting to shape the piece externally. 

Next up in this gripping tale (maybe not) ...Part 54  

[Keith_W]

I should hope so, Brian. Because my build order is different to everyone else's, I find that I am tackling parts of this build with no other build log (save Pete's I-I) to reference against. If there is one thing this site is good for, it is for seeking different opinions on how to tackle a particularly challenging aspect of a build. I could have kept all this info to myself and only show the outcome, but that's not the MSW spirit! If someone encounters a problem I want to see what they did about it! 

[UpstateNY]

Hi Keith,

 

I've been reading your log with interest from afar. As a recent new member, just wanted to say I really like seeing how you are carefully figuring out how to translate the plans into these complex shapes. Great discussion, build looks great to me and looking forward to the rest of your build. 

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel.

Edited February 6, 2015 by UpstateNY

[Keith_W]

Took a break from fabricating those infernal transom parts to doing something which was more fun. I made the staircase from the main to the lower deck. This piece will be mostly hidden so I used it as a trial run for other staircases I will have to build. 

 

First problem - the balustrades. The kit does not supply any. Commercially available balustrades can not be found in the correct size (or perhaps I am not looking in the right places). The plans suggest balustrade dimensions 9mm x 2mm, and I would agree. 3mm balustrades look too thick and awkward.

 

I fabricated my own. Those who are following this thread may recall an earlier post (here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7195-hms-royal-william-by-keithw-euromodel-172/?p=278928 ) where I came up with the idea of threading beads on a wire. I refined that idea a little:        

 

 

First set up a production line to superglue the beads in place. 

 

 

Tie a thin thread to the wire, superglue the knot, then cut the thread flush. 

 

 

 

Wind the thread around the wire until a bulb is formed (I used my lathe at very low speed). Keep adding superglue. The idea is to impregnate the thread with superglue to make it possible to turn on a lathe later. Once done, add a layer of liquid sculpey. 

 

 

Bake the batch in the oven according to the Sculpey instructions (15 min at 150C). 

 

 

Turn the balustrades on the lathe until happy with the results, then paint. This is a comparison of the BEST effort I made with turning pear dowel on the lathe (on left) with the Sculpey-thread-bead method (on right). The problem I had with turning pear dowels is that they snapped off the lathe once they reach a certain thinness. I could never get them below 2.5mm - still too thick. 

 

To be honest I am satisfied with neither of them. The sculpey-thread-bead method does produce a superior looking balustrade, but it is VERY time consuming, VERY fiddly, and VERY inconsistent. I decided to accept the results since the staircase will be hidden, but I will need to find another method. I might try turning brass or maybe even bone. 

 

Anyway, I continued with construction. 

 

 

 

 

I made a jig to make sure that I aligned the various planks for the handrails properly. I decided not to follow Euromodel's plans and came up with my own dimensions (which I have supplied), because I think it looks better! Once done, I stacked both squares and drilled holes simultaneously through both, to make sure that they would align once the balustrades were fitted.

 

 

Staircase construction. Given that it would not be seen, I decided to simply paint the jig black. It would be more sturdy and easier than constructing an actual staircase. 

 

 

Staircase in position! It is mostly hidden by the quarterdeck. The my Canon macro lens (100mm f/2.8) is ruthlessly revealing but it actually looks pretty good. 

[BANYAN]

Those macro shots can be either your best friend (in revealing issues you had not seen) or your worst enemy in revealing issues that really aren't that observable

 

Looks good Keith

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Keith_W]

Oh yes, I forgot to show you these pictures. The main deck has been planked and treenailed. 

 

 

The planking was done in a 3 plank shift pattern. I did a few experiments to simulate the caulking, including edge gluing black card, black paper, and black tissue paper. My problem with this method is that the paper tends to tear, no matter how sharp my scalpel is. This leads to caulking of irregular thickness. 

 

In the end, I clamped a whole bunch of planks together and painted both edges. I went over it 3 times to get a decent thickness of paint. Once sanded, it looks OK. I am happy with it!

 

 

The treenails were made from bamboo, drawn through a Byrnes draw plate. I was initially not happy with my Byrnes plate, because it kept clogging up with wood fiber, and I would have to clean out the plate after each draw! Then I worked out that I was pulling the dowels through the Byrnes plate the wrong way! Once I corrected that, it became a dream to use. These bamboo dowels have been pulled down to 0.5mm. The effect against the holly is subtle, but it's exactly what I want. 

[CaptainSteve]

Balustrading looks fine, Keith ... especially considering that it is largely undercover.

[Keith_W]

Janos, I am very interested in your technique, however I have difficulty picturing what you are describing. Do you have a picture of your procedure somewhere? And if you don't, would you be able to post it? 

[usedtosail]

Yes please Janos a picture would be great.

 

Keith - your balustrades look great to me. That is a very interesting method you came up with that is probably suitable for other items as well, so I will remember it.

Edited February 9, 2015 by usedtosail

[Keith_W]

Thank you janos! IMO your technique deserves a separate thread so that people can see it. 

[usedtosail]

Yes, thank you Janos. Now I get it, and I am going to remember that technique for the future.

[Keith_W]

I finally finished shaping that annoying transom. Both part 54 and 55 are sitting in an ammonia bath at the moment, then will be boiled and then pressed to achieve the curvature shown in the plans. I found that the best way to shape both 54 and 55 is to dowel them together. Even then I found it difficult to offer it to the hull to check the shape, so I doweled it to the model as well. I forgot to take pictures. 

 

But I did get pictures for the replacement cabin piece that I made. As mentioned earlier in the thread, this is supplied as a cast metal piece which should be painted and then fit to the bulkhead. There is no other word for it - this piece is hideous. Thankfully it is hidden away under the quarterdeck, so I could have gotten away with using it if I felt lazy. But I thought I would give it a whirl. 

 

 

This is what I enjoy most about modelling ... actually making stuff out of wood! The windows were made by cutting slits in some thin holly and fitting it together as you would fit grating. It was then thinned down on my disc sander down to 1mm, then glued on a sheet of clear styrene. 

 

You can see this piece compared to the chunky metal piece supplied by the kit. I would normally discard it, but I found a use for it. 

 

 

 

... I painted it with a hidden message to remember my best friend who passed away last year. I also installed some lights to light up the cabin from within. 

 

 

The stern LED's have also been fitted. 

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

Keith!

Daniel's family would be touched with your message. He must have been a great friend, I'm sorry for you lost mate.

God bless you and your dear departed friend.

 

Greg