To paint or not to paint

[Paul0367]

What is the general opinions regards painting the Victory, or leaving her the natural wood state. Especially when the wood shows no gaps to be filled. I'm torn what to do

[Donny]

It is a rather personal thing, but I am a natural wood finisher and given the choice that is where I will go! Enjoy it the way you like it!

Best regards.

 

Donny A

[Keith_W]

She's your model, you can do as you like! There are superb examples of painted and unpainted Victory's around. If you want to be true to the original in Portsmouth, then you can paint it. But remember, before she was painted ... she was unpainted  

[Paul0367]

KeithW, very diplomatic reply.I have spent hours getting her wood effect clean and joint free, paint it and I may as well dragged out some filla and just plonk it together, plus displaying a wooden ship looks class. All this said if I was to paint it the plastic kits would have made more sense. I will have to look at some painted versions I think.

[Don9of11]

The first thing a Captain learns is how to make decisions and since you're the Captain of your own ship the decision is yours. So take command and in the words of Captain Picard "make it so"... get those scallywags off to the side with a bucket and brush and paint away

[captain-d]

could paint 1 side in the typical black and yellow ocre.. and leave side unpainted wood grain..

[testazyk]

captain-d that's a great idea--to paint one side and leave the other natural! 

 

I'm one of those people who value aesthetics over accuracy so I left my Victory natural. (plus I didn't trust myself with painting it)

[shihawk]

I started a similiar topic a few months ago and the conclusion seems to be that everyone should please themselves , My preference is no paint but i must admit some of the painted builds on this site are fantastic . Im building a Billings Victory at present and intend to keep a natural finish,feel free to look at my log ,any suggestions will be welcome , I have just about finished the second planking and one problem is that when not using paint plywood parts either have to be replaced or venered and unfortunately there are a lot of plywood pieces in the Billings version , but i still believe it can be done .Have Fun   

 

Boyd 

[Keith_W]

Paulo I am a far from diplomatic person ... I speak my mind But in this case, I really DO believe that it's your model, and you can do as you wish. I'll only pull a frown if you paint it pink and orange. 

[Keith_W]

If you wish to use natural timbers on the model to represent the current look of HMS Victory, then why not plank it with boxwood and ebony ?

 

The problem with that is that the painted stripes do not match the run of the wales on the HMS Victory in Portsmouth. Any kit which uses contrasting timbers to represent stripes is probably in error. The question is - whether the stripes DID match the run of the wales in Trafalgar, or at any other point in her history. 

 

Then again, it's a model. Some choose to be fastidious to history, some choose to have a nice looking model. I definitely lean towards the "nice looking model" camp  

[shihawk]

In my limited experience and what i recall from the previous discussion there is the painting with wood theory ,where you try to duplicate the paint colors with different woods ,in fact i think this was my initial intention but i soon realised to do this properly was way beyond my ability and decided to go with the" If it looks right im happy " method . I took great comfort from a victory picture site which showed countless Victory models ,some by MSW members and everyone had there own special Victory ,some painted some not ,some with wales in authentic place and some like my own fitted to suit , some even didn,t have Victory stripes and i think that once you realise there are no hard and fast rules you start to build the model you think looks right , it may not please everyone but are you building for yourself or your audience ? Carry on CAPTAIN .  

[mtdoramike]

Everyone builds for their audience in some degree. Who wants to build a model only to have people NOT notice as they walk into a room. It is very pleasing to have someone comment positively on your hard work and dedication. I also agree, it's your model and you will be the ultimate person to make that choice. I too am currently building a victory and will paint her since the model will be donated to our local library. I will try and stay true to her historical accuracy as possible, but I will also use a little artistic license as well. I have built more unpainted ship models than I have painted one's. But it has been my experience that painted ship models sell for almost double the price as natural wood look models do. I also must add here that I have seen more than a few really crappy painted ship models. But I have never seen a bad natural wood model:)   

Edited June 27, 2014 by mtdoramike

[Paul0367]

I really thought this topic would help but honestly its harder to decide. I wouldn't be happy to have it looking stunning in natural wood only to paint it and it loose its appeal, I haven't looked into paint but what paint is used on the wooden ones. Oh and point taken about the wales on the real ship they run quite a way off the straight line you'd expect

Edited June 27, 2014 by Paul0367

[mtdoramike]

I've used both, oil base and water base paints. I will usually lay down a layer of Polyurathane to seal the wood, which fills in most small cracks. Then I put on a layer of paint. The Poly helps get a smoother finish. This should not be a difficult decision for you. If you are satisfied and like the natural finish of the model, then leave it as is. I think most model builders leave their first models natural anyway.

 

Let me add here that most new model builders think that building the model is the major part, which it is, but fit and finish is just as important as building the model itself. The more detail, the finer the finish, the better the model painted or natural. Please don't fall into the trap that "well, if I were going to paint the model, I would have built it in plastic". Both are totally different mediums and both have their place amoung modeling. But either way, the better the finish on either wood or plastic, the better the model will turn out. I have painted over some really beautiful walnut just to capture the historic look of a particular ship.  

Edited June 27, 2014 by mtdoramike

[robnbill]

When I was building the hull out on my Mamoli Connie I had to make the decision to paint of not. The Mamoli kit was built such that the wood could be left in the natural state and it would look great. In fact the Mamoli photos all show the ship unpainted. However to me personally, it would not look like the Connie. She is a black ship with a white stripe down the gun ports. Even that is up for discussions since there is evidence the strip was also yellow at one point. Just like the British warships of the day. So while the wood looked great, I just liked the look of the Connie painted. It would have been much easier for me to just clear coat the wood since I clear coat after painting anyway. It was not a matter of covering the wood as it was making it look like I wanted it.

 

That said, my next project will be a scratch built admiralty model of the Brig Eagle. I plan (at least right now) on only light stain and clear coating this model. There will still be some details that will require paint such as the cannon etc. 

[HIPEXEC]

If you chose woods that showed the correct contrast like the paint would show, and your wood work is good, I say leave it unpainted to show the art of your wood working.

[Paul0367]

I'm leaning to painted which when I had a lightbulb moment when my wife asked what I would like to fill the time whilst im flying (cabin crew) to her suprise I said a wooden ship. The Victory was first and only choice although since endulging I've seen some stunning ships being built. But painted was my intension, its only since building I've had to ask the question. I will paint some spare timber and get a feel for it.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Paul0367

[Paul0367]

I've just been looking at the future of my build which may influence the to paint or not to paint issue. All the hatches for the cannons are what appears to be pewter, ( lead in colour ) we know what pewter looks like you all cry, this would no doubt have to be painted what ever I do. Tuesday I'm in Bracknell from Manchester and the real thing is only an hour further south. It would be rude not to pop down with a camera and go crazy. That said I was working in Portsmouth two weeks before I decided to build her.

[shoule]

My measly two cents buy's only that every comment, here, is correct. There is no wrong way, in a given perspective.

Making wood do, or look, like I want, comes easy to me. Painting does not. It suits that I like a "natural wood" look.

There are so many examples, here, but when I look at, for instance, what Matti (Nazgul) has done with his Wasa, painting scares me. His approach is so complex and practiced and the effort pays off wonderfully. I hope to be able to want to paint a model, like that, at some point.

 A well painted model just has another layer of skill incorporated. I wouldn't look at it as covering something up. If you want that, and are confident, let the paint fly. You can always build another ship.

[Paul0367]

Keithw, I can honestly say I've followed the kit instructions but not actually noticed the Wales curve up to the rear, because of this I've chosen to do the same with my kit And that will mean the Wales will cover the kits light timber which means I'm going to go the paint route.

[Keith_W]

Hi Paulo, just FYI I have attached a screen shot of the Caldercraft Victory instructions. I have highlighted the relevant sentences re: painted lines not matching the wales. You will note that on THIS model at least, the wales do curve up at the rear. The Caldercraft Victory instructions are excellent, I suggest you go there and have a read. 

 

(edit) I have also attached a scan of the rear cover of AOTS: Victory, again showing that the run of the wales and painted stripes do not match. 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2014 by KeithW

[shihawk]

Paulo , just wondering are you copper plating the hull??

[tlevine]

As several people have already stated, this is a hobby that balances historical accuracy and aesthetics. Victory is the only ship I have modeled that is painted.  Although I originally intended to leave it natural, it "spoke to me" and informed me that  it needed to be painted.  This also gave me the opportunity to learn a new skill, airbrushing.  I have added my best picture showing the run of the wales and gunports and how they do not follow the ochre striping.  Good luck with your decision.

 

[demonborger]

I like my ships to have black gunwales and white anti-fouling paint, it gives a nice contrast. 

 

The classic Victory black, ochre and copper hull scheme looks brilliant also.

 

But it doesn't matter if it is done with wood stain, acrylic paint, oil paint, different coloured wood species or any other approach, so long as the contrast producing an aesthetic result then it is good.

 

Personally i can;'t stand a natural wood finish where one species of wood is all there is. An example of such is the Corel models that are part of the box art/promotional photos, i don't like the look of the entirely walnut approach. I also don't like gunwales that are a silvery/grey shade of walnut

[Paul0367]

I have studied the images and have run my Wales as close as I could to the real thing, that said it now gives me no option but to paint. I notice in the Constructo kit the Wales run almost straight with the light timbered gun ports. The kit done this way has a very flat appearance but after running the Wales over the light gun port colour timber she immediately looks curved and shaped. I had already installed the top double Wales and know they should have also curved up by approx 5mm, this may be addressed but may just leave them. The lower Wales do curve up and the lowest actually enters the coloured section. Why do manufacturers make and sell inaccurate kits, seeing these Wales on the original ship are quite difficult as the paint moves your eye off the lines. But having seen the images of the above ship, wow painted does look and scream I'm the HMS VICTORY no doubt about it. That image alone would have made me follow my initial painting route, stunning, Tlevine, really stunning. This site is unreal for imformatin , thanks guys for taking the time to leave an oppinion.

[Paul0367]

Another question is when to actually start the painting process. My guess is to paint her main sections i.e captains quarters black and paint the trims prior to fitting and just fit the trim and touch up the required areas where these are cut / sanded to size and assume the window frames are cut and fitted and painted afterwards. as this is my first ever attempt the help is much appreciated.....These are the things im sure most dont even consider when they think about building a wooden ship, I know i havnt until crunch time

[robnbill]

On the Connie, I painted the hull before I stained her deck or added any deck furniture. The question you have to ask yourself is will I be able to do this later. I the answer is no, then you need to do it before moving on. Since the deck was stained, and the ceilings painted before I put deck fittings on, I took care of painting/staining them as I put them on. Lastly, I have gone through and touched up nicks and nits as I need to.

[mtdoramike]

I agree with Rob, that is the way I usually do it. It does require the thought of at least a few steps ahead, but modeling requires this anyway:)

[radrick21]

Did the Victory ever sport some other paint scheme(s) prior to Trafalgar's ochre/black/copper? 

[Keith_W]

Did the Victory ever sport some other paint scheme(s) prior to Trafalgar's ochre/black/copper?

Yes, she looked different at different periods in her history.

 

 

Prior to her outfit in 1797, she had open rear galleries and lacked the black and ochre stripes, as depicted in this painting from 1793.

 

 

In 1900, the black and ochre stripes looked radically different.