HMS Pegasus by Landlubber Mike - Amati/Victory Models - Scale 1:64

[Landlubber Mike]

B.E., thanks very much for the recommendation on the plans.  They are gorgeous like you say.  I'll probably frame mine as well after my build is completed, so if the model stinks, at least I'll have nice artwork that people can look at     I'll have to take a closer look at the stern carvings.  I remember reading about your concerns over the Norman knights.  The figurehead to me looks really wild - I might have to start practicing carving now, so that in a few years, I can carve something similar.

 

Alistair, the plans are really fantastic.  I'm not sure what they are printed on, but it's sort of a laminated paper so they are very sturdy.  As B.E. notes, they are of nice decorative quality as well and can be displayed as artwork -- although, take my opinion for what you paid for it as my sense of what is "art" isn't all that great    I remember seeing someone post the Fly plans on here, and they looked to be just as good as the Pegasus plans.

[Landlubber Mike]

Ian - with the amount of crisp detail on the plans, I might look into buying the Lyme plans.  Since I'm pretty much scratch building most of the Unicorn anyway, recently I've been considering converting the Unicorn to the Lyme as:  (1) the stern and galleries would be much easier to execute from scratch I think - and in my opinion, look nicer than that of the Unicorn; (2) the figureheads would take about the same amount of carving work and skill; and (3) the quarterdeck bulwarks would be easier to execute with the full portholes, and again would probably look nicer than the Unicorn.  There are some minor differences like the railings, but I think the main consideration is whether I want to build a ship with a beakhead bulkhead (the Unicorn), or go with the rounded bow like the Lyme.  I think the beakhead is a cool feature, but I'm not wedded to it.

 

If you had the choice, what would you do?

[Landlubber Mike]

The beakhead is probably the only reason that I'd stick with the Unicorn.  Unfortunately, the "Lyme Class" only consisted of two members - the Lyme and the Unicorn.  The design was successful however, and there were a number of close descendants of the class, including the Guadaloupe and the Pandora.  You can probably build any of those ships off the Corel kit with relatively few modifications.

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

I would have been tempted to convert to the Lyme but the Unicorn was pretty well unique which makes makes for interest. I better not put any more Unicorn thoughts here since this is supposed to be Pegasus!  

[egkb]

Those plans look amazing Mike, can't wait to see what you will do with this beautiful boat !

 

By The Way , The Plans would look well snazzy framed behind the finished Peg.

 

Stay Well

 

Eamonn

[Martin W]

Hi Mike -- I don't know why it's taken me this long to come across your log, but so it is.  I'll be eagerly following your build.  The NMM plans for The Fly were an early purchase for me, and, as with you and the Pegasus plans, I was surprised and thrilled at how clear, useful, and lovely they are.  I'm actually even planning on buying another copy as a present for a friend who's about to turn 60.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Eamonn, thanks very much!  I think you're right that having the plans framed would be a nice touch.

 

Martin, thanks very much for looking in.  The plans are really fantastic, aren't they?  I need to find more friends like you as that would be a really nice present!

Edited July 22, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Landlubber Mike]

Last night I took the first step in removing the keel, bulkheads and other parts from the 5mm MDF boards.  The MDF is very strong, and my initial impression is that there is zero warp in the pieces.  No pictures at the moment, but the parts are laser cut very nicely - perfect symmetry and very clean cuts, and it looks like everything is fitting together like a glove.  It's a great way to start the kit by not having to worry about warping and symmetry issues.

 

As I was looking at the plans last night, I started thinking about what, if any, of the kit wood I would like to replace.  Like my Unicorn/Lyme, I want to avoid paint as much as possible.  The Unicorn/Lyme is going to be mostly in pear (oiled for natural look and dyed black for the black areas), and boxwood for the deck, accents and carvings/detail pieces -- pretty much almost a complete kit bash.  I'm hoping to use more of the kit wood with the Pegasus as it seems to be a very accurate, but we'll see as I progress along the build.

 

For the Pegasus, I'm thinking of taking a different approach from the Unicorn of having more of a darker hue to the overall build.  I still plan on dying/staining the bulwark planking and cannon carriages red, and hopefully the kit pieces take the ebony dye/stain well for the black areas.  I'm also thinking of using boxwood for the rails and headrails and other ochre pieces, rather than painting them ochre.  Instead, for the detail decorations, I'll either paint them to match the boxwood or try a more gilded or burnished look.  Also, I might try working with holly for the stern windows and for what I expect to be scratched small boats as I really prefer to avoid white paint - to me, even using a dull white looks too garish against a model that is mostly oiled and/or stained, though maybe an ivory paint or a light wash over a dull white paint would look ok.

 

That leaves me with the deck planking, hull planking, and masts.  I'm thinking about going with maple for the decks, and a darker wood like walnut for the hull planking and things like the hatch coamings.  I'm not sure about the masts yet - I could go boxwood to tie with the boxwood accents, or go dark like walnut (or use walnut stain on wood like the kit dowels).  I would love to just be able to use tung oil on the walnut kit pieces (I loved the look of the oiled walnut on my Badger), but the colors of the kit's walnut range from almost blonde with the stem and rudder, to a darker brown with the planking strips, to a more burgundy hue with the thin walnut ply pieces, to all over the place with what I think are walnut dowels.  I'll probably talk to Jeff at Hobbymill for suggestions, but I might have to replace much of the walnut just for pure consistency of color.

 

If anyone has any wood or color suggestions, i would love to hear them

Edited July 22, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Martin W]

Mike -- Like you, I'm trying to avoid painting as much as possible.  While I really like the effects achieved by some of the Pegasus/Fly builders on this site, I just happen to enjoy the look of wood, especially in contrast with others. 

 

If you look at some of the period models, you'll see that most often the hull is planked (if at all) in boxwood.  That's what I'm going for, with ebony for the wales.  My decking is holly, and the hatches so far are boxwood.  I've realized that I will need some more wood, so as I put together an order for Hobby Mill, I think I'll explore some other species for the bitts, etc.  One species I'm looking at is pau marfim.  I used boxwood for the masts & spars on my Rattlesnake, and found it easier to work with than the usual spruce dowels -- they stayed straight, and had a tighter grain.

 

On an earlier build, I planked the deck with stained walnut, and looking at it now I find it to be pretty dark.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

Edited July 22, 2014 by Martin W

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi Martin, thanks so much for looking in.  I love your Fly build - it's coming along very nicely.  I love the look of the boxwood against the holly.  My Unicorn will be on the lighter side (though, a bit darker with pear against boxwood).  

 

For the Pegasus, I'm thinking of something a little more darker, like SLR0461 from the NMM:

 

 

This Le Cyclope from Bernard Frolich is another color tone that I like (among other things!), which is borrowed from here:

 

http://modelisme.arsenal.free.fr/artdumodelisme/galeriegb.html

 

 

 

 

This is another model that is closer to what I'm thinking of doing with Pegasus - a Victory using pear, maple (I imagine for the decks) and ebony which is borrowed from the link below.  I particularly like the use of boxwood accents and gilded/burnished decorative pieces against the ebony:

 

http://www.shipmodels.com.ua/eng/models/elite/victori/index.htm

 

 

 

[Blue Ensign]

I don't think you will go far wrong trying to emulate the look of your top option Mike.

 

I like your thinking in these early stages of your project.

 

B.E.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks B.E.  I think my wife would say "too much thinking, not enough doing."  

 

Hopefully I can pull the look off - the good thing about painting with wood is that the wood does most of the work.

[Landlubber Mike]

Another question for my fellow Swan class builders - for the bulwark planking on the upper deck, do the planks go in between the bulkhead uprights?    I'm wondering if I'll need to cut the MDF uprights off and install new supports in the wood I plan to use for the bulwark planking if I try to paint with wood - which will likely be using a red stain.

 

Also, are the MDF supports visible under the forecastle deck and quarterdeck?  If I have to replace some of the bulkhead uprights, I might as well replace them all, but it would be nice to be able to skip a few bulkheads.

[aliluke]

Hi Mike

I used boxwood for the hull and holly for the decks. The holly looks almost white when it is laid but yellows quite quickly. This is probably the lacquer going yellow after exposure to UV light but I like the look. Certainly the darker look of the external timbers in your examples looks very fine but I'm happy with boxwood too. My copper looks much like that on Le Cyclope but it was a rather drastic measure that got it there!

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi Alistair,

 

I was wondering about the yellowing effect on the holly.  I think I want to go a little darker, so I might be leaning towards maple.  I'll check with Jeff to see what he recommends.

 

Your copper looks amazing.  I plan on following your same technique - don't tell the Admiral or my kids!  I just need to go to the store to buy my favorite coffee roast and I should be all set to go

[Landlubber Mike]

I posted this on my Unicorn log, but thought I'd post here as well.  Tonight I tried out a couple of reddish "dye stains" from General Finishes as possibilities for the bulwark planking, gun carriages, and maybe some of the deck items.  The colors are Empire Red and Cinnamon.  I took some pics, but it's always a bit tricky to get the colors in pictures to match the real life hues.  I got pretty close though.  I first tried the colors out on some warped plywood that I had, and then thought that it made more sense to try then on scrap pieces of the actual woods I would most likely use them on, like walnut (including the walnut gun carriages in the Unicorn kit) and pear.  Also in the pictures is a piece of scrap pear that was only treated with tung oil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really like both colors.  The Empire Red has a bit more red to it, while the Cinnamon has more brown to it.  I probably like the Empire Red on the scrap walnut the best, but it didn't come out very well on the walnut gun carriage -- might need to pre-treat them with sanding sealer.  But, I think either could be viable options if I wanted to add a red ochre-ish color to my build.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Martin W]

Yeah, Mike, that walnut gun carriage just seems to absorb the red without loosing its brown.  Although in the last photo the carriage on the left looks fairly reddish.  Good experimenting.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Martin.  I figured I would try it out to see if it could be a viable option.  I think the stains look pretty nice, but after seeing Rusty's cross-build this morning where he used redheart, I'm strongly considering taking a look at using that wood instead.  

 

Hope Rusty doesn't mind me borrowing his pictures.  First picture below is from Rusty's log - redheart strip against bloodwood gun carriage.  Second is his completed cross section, where he used redheart for the coamings and bulwark planking.  

 

 

Edited July 23, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Martin W]

Hi Mike -- I bought some redheart myself a month or so ago from Woodcraft:  a block about an inch square and maybe 8 inches long coast about four bucks, I believe.  I had also thought of using that for the gun carriages, but have to say that Rusty's coaming looks pretty doggone good.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

I've been giving the wood/color choice some more thought the past couple of days.  I've been trading emails with Jeff at Hobbymill, who has been incredibly helpful and generous with his time.  I mentioned before that my Unicorn will be primarily pear with boxwood decks and accents, so I'm looking to go with a different scheme with the Pegasus to keep things interesting.

 

I'd still like to go on the darker side, so I think I'm going to stick with walnut as the primary wood for the model - hull planking, deck items like hatch coamings and companionways, etc.  Given the large color variation and structural issues with the walnut ply in the kit, I'll probably just replace some/all of the kit wood with walnut from Jeff.  As for the deck, after seeing this picture of Jeff's walnut against Jeff's maple from Len's Bellerophon log, I'm sold on maple for the decking:

 

 

 

Other colors and wood choices:

 

-- boxwood will be used for some of the rails, and likely some of the accents.

 

-- I'm still deciding on whether to go with red for the bulwark planking and some of the deck items.  If I do, I think I might try using redheart, which looks like a gorgeous wood.

 

-- rather than painting the photo-etched windows white (I'm not a fan of white paint on models), I will probably replace them with scratch built windows made of holly, and use holly for the planking on the small boats as well.

 

-- the photo etched decorations will be painted in a burnished gold/bronze color.

 

 

This brings me to the masts.  Does anyone have any suggestions on what I could use?  With the wood I'm planning to use, I think I have four options:

 

-- walnut for entirety of masts

 

-- walnut for lower sections, maple for upper sections

 

-- walnut for lower sections, boxwood for upper sections

 

-- boxwood for the masts, with maybe maple for the upper sections

 

 

I'd like to stick to these woods just to keep a consistent color theme.  I'd very much appreciate any thoughts or other suggestions.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[aliluke]

Hi Mike

It sounds like a very comprehensive scheme. Much more ambitious than mine.

 

My only note of caution is the walnut. I have some walnut stock from Jeff which I bought for my AVS. Perfectly cut as always and grain matched too. But I do not like this species compared to the others I use:

- It is very brittle and inclined to splinter or shatter.

- It is very hard. Hard to cut.

- It has a very pronounced grain with deep incisions which is not good for scale.

- It is difficult to bend.

 

I managed to make it work for the AVS but I mostly painted it which allowed me to use fillers. However the coamings on my AVS are natural walnut from Jeff. I will try to use up my walnut stock as I need to but I really don't like it at all!

[jwvolz]

Mike,

I haven't used my HobbyMill walnut yet, so I can't speak to all of Alistair's concerns, but there is definitely the grain and incision issue. Like I mentioned in my log It's only going to be used for the garboard since it was part of my plan to use kit walnut below the wales and I just needed some wider stock. 

 

If you'd like to PM me your address I can send you a little piece to see what we are talking about. 

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi guys, thanks very much for your thoughts on using walnut.  With the curves on the Pegasus, maybe it's not a good idea to use it for the hull planking.  Hmm...I'll have to think a little more on this.  Maybe I should stick with pear, which i have really enjoyed using thus far.

[Landlubber Mike]

Ugh, that's disappointing to hear Spyglass.  Maybe I just need to plan to replace all the walnut.  I was hoping I could get away with dying/staining the black stuff and it would be fine, but maybe I should plan to scratch the various items.  I was hoping to avoid that, but since I didn't pay retail for the kit, I don't feel as bad replacing the kit wood. 

 

Jeff mentioned that some folks might not like the look of a tight grained wood like pear or boxwood against a loose grained wood like walnut.  I didn't really consider that, and maybe I should just stick with pear.  I was thinking of doing something a little different than the Unicorn, but it's really hard to beat pear for  color, grain and workability.  

[Landlubber Mike]

For people thinking of the Pegasus, here's an idea of the color variation in the kit walnut:

 

 

 

Variation is fine if you are painting or otherwise like that sort of thing, but if you are trying to go with a matched natural color, it is a bit problematic.  Hence my dilemma of what to do.  I might see if when dyed/stained black, the walnut all takes the same color.  If that's the case, then I probably won't have to replace as many of the parts.

[aliluke]

Mike

From Spyglass's comments and yours I must find favour with my Fly kit. It is not nearly as bad for variation and the kit plywood is fine. Toss a coin I guess. I'm replacing some parts for a more accurate projection rather than for poor wood stock. For the most part the kit stock I have would make for a great model. I'm just a little bit more obsessed...

[catopower]

Hi Mike,

 

I'm a little late on arrival, but I really loved the job you did on the Badger and am looking forward to your work on the Pegasus. The planning you've been doing sounds really great. I have become a big fan of pear wood and have also been experimenting a lot with wood dye. I used wood dye on my recently completed Higaki Kaisen model (kit by Woody Joe of Japan) and also been using a lot of black dye on a colonial schooner model I'm working on now.

 

I'm enjoying your discussion/thought-process on the wood choice since I've been going through that a lot myself.

 

Anyway, I'll be watching your build with great interest!

 

Clare

[Blue Ensign]

Hi Mike, I used walnut planking for the wales on my Pegasus, and although it is painted black it sits well against the rest of the boxwood planking. I didn't have any problems with splitting or forming around the tricky stern section and a good edge was formed when making the top and Butt planks.

 

With masting at least with Walnut you have half a chance of getting straight dowels for the Lower masts. I didn't favour Walnut because of it's dark colour which went against the overall effect I was after. I tried both Lime and Birch, which had warping issues over the required 400mm lengths, and finally settled on Ramin, a mid tone fine grained wood which provided more colour options, and most importantly gave me straight lengths.

 

B.E.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks very much guys.  I took a closer look at the walnut strip last night, and it actually looks pretty good - much better quality than the walnut strip I used on the Badger.  Since I plan on coppering the hull, I can select the strips I want for the upper hull so the variation is less of an issue.  

 

What is annoying is that the 5mm sheet (upper left corner in the first picture) contains the stem post and rudder, each of which have exposed wood sections that won't be colored or coppered.    The wood is so blonde, that it would need to be replaced.  But in replacing it, I might then need to replace the upper hull planks so that there is a match.  

 

Thanks very much for the kind words Clare.  I agree that pear is very nice!  I'll have to look up your Higaki Kaisen - did you post photos of it?

 

BE, thanks for your thoughts.  It's good to hear that the walnut held up well.  The strip wood looks very good in my kit, so maybe I'll just stick with it and replace the walnut pieces on the sheets that are the off colors that I intend to leave natural.  I'm still working out the color scheme on the masts.  I'm thinking of maybe using boxwood for the lower sections and maple for the upper sections.  It looks like the lower masts on the ship might have been painted yellow, so boxwood might work out nicely.  The alternative would be to use walnut or pear (whichever is used for the upper hull planking), and then maybe maple for the upper sections.

[Landlubber Mike]

That's very interesting SpyGlass.  It almost looks like the blonde 5mm sheet (I don't think it is ply) that I got might be for the Fly (assuming that the Pegasus and Fly have the exact same parts).    The quality of the 5mm sheet looks very good relative to the other two types of ply sheets.  For whatever reason, I think the other ply sheets are all 1.5mm thick - makes me wonder why Amati mixed and matched color tones with my kit?

 

Looking at your last picture, I'm surprised how well the colors matched up.  Tonight I will put the planking strips against the 5mm sheet.

 

By the way, the MDF keel, lower deck and bulkheads fit together like a glove.  I dry fit the assembly last night, and I almost feel like I can dry fit the bulkheads and glue the lower deck on top and call it a day - the assembly really fit perfectly and solidly, almost to the point that you don't need any glue at all.

 

One thing I'm beginning to realize might cause me some angst in painting with wood is dealing with the bulkhead extensions.  I am going to have to cut them off at some point and replace them with different wood.  The question is whether to do that now, or wait until after the exterior is planked and then break off the extensions and replace them.  I'm thinking that the first option would be easier in the long run.