Continental Gunboat PHILADELPHIA by Chuck Seiler - Model Shipways - 1:24 Scale - Enhanced

[Chuck Seiler]

Installing first plank of third strake.

[bebopsteve]

Looks great Chuck.. Your planks real good. In fact, I just removed some to start over. My first strake under wale looks fine, but need to redo 2-3 Yours look a bit wider than mine. Did you go with the laser markings?  I was also reading an article where the writer says he does not curve the bottom of the plank, just the top. does that even make sense?

[Chuck Seiler]

W+1 and W+2 are the same as the markings.  Because the bottom planking added some distance, that bottom plank is going to be very wide.  After W+2, I split the difference (I hope) on all frames and remarked.  My W+3 is a bit wider than the others and. frankly, a bit f a pain to work with.

 

Not curving the bottom?  Maybe that makes sense when you first cut the plank.  When you initially fit the plank, soak/clamp/dry, etc, the bottom doesn;t make any difference.  Once you mark the desired plank width, however, I don't see whee it WON'T have a curve.  It may not be the same as the top curve due to widening or narrowing of the plank, but there will be a curve.

[bebopsteve]

Great help.. I used so much lumber, I need to get some more! But I can see improvement just by the templates I am making. This is going to take a while, but its fun learning to do it right, Plus is might make my next kit a bit easier.. (I hope)!!! I picked up a french curve set tonite too. Thanks again Chuck, your help is much appreciated!

[chborgm]

Chuck

Thanks for the confidence builder. I haven't opened the box on Philly yet. I am following this forum to get insight  into my next effort. I know I will go back and reread this many times. I have never planked a hull with wide boards, and that is what has me concerned, 

[kurtvd19]

The bottom of the plank will have a curve matching the top curve pretty closely but I fit the top first and then after it has dried in place the bottom is marked to the frame markings and cut and sanded.  The extra width at the bottom allows the top to be fit a bit better after drying as Chuck related.  If you get it close with the initial fit you will not have to sand too much for the final fit to worry about running out of width.  The top bevel of the plank being fit is important so that you don't wind up with a large gap when sanding the planks smooth as any gap before sanding is only going to get wider as you progress.

Kurt

[bebopsteve]

Thanks Kurt. The bevel on the top of the plank, is there a rule as far as degree, or just eyeball it to fit?

[kurtvd19]

Steve:

No rule that I am aware of - just sand to fit tight.  It's not a lot but it is important.

Kurt

[bebopsteve]

Thanks again Kurt. Very Helpful!

[Chuck Seiler]

Steve/CHB,

 

    I think this is a GREAT model to learn spiling and planking.  The small number of large planks helps...I think.  That first one is a doozy however.  That, and the width of the planks can be overcome as long as you aren't too worried about historical accuracy; make the planks shorter and thinner.  Obviously by looking at the  we see that they were not adverse to short planks*.  Personally, I would be more comfortable with plank W+1/1 going only as far as frame 11 or 12.  Similarly, placing 5 instead of 4 strakes below the wale would make the plans narrower; not historically correct for PHILLY, but not unreasonably narrow as planking goes.

 

    Again, the caveats here are (1) it will not be historically correct, (2) you will have to re-line the hull yourself and (3) you will have to plan a little to avoid overlapping butt joints.

 

(1)  The planking for this model is already historically incorrect.  As discussed elsewhere, the two strakes above the wale in this model are only really one on the real ship.  Unless you are familiar with the PHILLY plans, you would never know that there are 4 strakes below the wale instead of 5 and plank 1 is overly long.  If the benefit is that you can plank better, you learn the process and you end up with a great looking model, it is worth it.

 

(2)  Easy.  Measure the length of each frame from wale to bottom and divide by 5.

 

* Historically, they planked the gundolas from bottom to top-just the opposite of the way we are doing it.  I find it interesting that the FIRST strake (in their case) has alot of short planks and finally at the top the planks get longer. 

[Chuck Seiler]

I wholeheartedly agree with Kurt.  Rough-fitting the top curve, then smooth-fitting the top curve while leaving a little wood at the bottom just in case is the way to go.  It may be a little wasteful in the use of wood, but it results in a better looking model.

 

It wasn't all that long ago that I would cut off a x/y inch wide plank from an x/y inch thick sheet and attempt to edge bend it into place.  Most of the time I found the bow sections of the planks are narrower than amidships, so by tapering the correct side of the plank and some creative edge bending I could get close.  I would just make the plank extra thick and sand paper would take care of the rest.  ....but it showed.  My friend and mentor, Mike Lonnecker, showed me what he was doing with his planking for his HMS FLY.  I originally disliked the idea because it seemed a waste of wood.  Now that I am doing, I love the results.  Fine tuning the fit takes awhile, but is well worth the effort.

 

The bevel:  The angle IS important, but there is no rule of thumb.  You just have to ease it in.  If the angle is too severe you end up with a gap if you sand away too much of the surface wood, leaving the bevel exposed.  I usually start by taking the inside corner off a little.  Also I look at the angle where one plank meets the other and go from there....a definite SWAG.  Make sure to go in and clean out any debris and glue as well.  This could be the reason why you have gapping as well.

[chborgm]

Good input Chuck.

I just finished planking the deck on the Confederacy, so I have a lot to do before I get to the Philly.

[Chuck Seiler]

Do you have a build log?  I am unable to find.

[Chuck Seiler]

I had some time off this weekend and had planned on doing alot of hull planking.  It was 80 degree here yesterday and crappy weather has started to move it.  I decided to spend some time outside while it is still summer....ooops sorry.  My apologies to those getting snow.

 

Here is a shot of the bow section after a little smoothing.  I am happy with the hull, but not the photo.  I tried several times to get a good, clear, closeup shot but was unable.  I'll fire the photographer and see if I can get something better with good lighting.

 

 

 

Same section previously...closer up....before smoothing.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Chuck Seiler

[CaptainSteve]

Your photography looks just fine, Chuck ... and your boat looks even better !!!

[chborgm]

No. I only found this site a couple months ago, and I was pretty well along at that time. When I start the Philly I'll do  a log.

[bebopsteve]

Chuck, Thanks to you and Kurt, I am getting the hang of it. I even had enough bad planks to use as kindling in the fireplace. (it is cold here in Seattle). But, I am taking one plank at a time and seeing great results. Thanks again guys!

[Chuck Seiler]

Steve,

 

   You are quite welcome.  I am happy to help.

 

   When I first started about 15 or 16 years ago, I remember a respected veteran builder (it may have been Ben Lankford) said it took him a day a plank...or maybe a strake.  At the time I thought he was crazy...that's absurdly slow.  Now I know better.

[bebopsteve]

For sure I can see why..I have is book ..good read!

[Chuck Seiler]

    While I continue with my hull planking, I am going to break from protocol here and post photos of somebody else model.  Anguish not.  I have asked permission from and received same from both the modeler Dave Yotter and site administrator Chuck Passaro.  The primary purpose is to pictorially demonstrate the nail patterns (etc) for PHILLY in conjunction with the narrative from BRATTEN.    It also demonstrates some building items from the original plans NOT incorporated into the kit.  Finally, it lets you see some really fine craftsmanship up close.  My thanks to Dave for these pictures.

 

    A note regarding my discussion of building measures and items from the original plans but NOT from the kit.  I realize this is a beginner's level kit and may be the first or second model a reader may be working on.  By including the information, I am not inferring that the builder SHOULD include these items, only that they COULD include them, or at the very least know about them.

 

    Organization:  Where it makes sense, I will include the information quoted from BRATTEN, followed by the photo(s) that relate to the narrative, followed by my own comments.  The BRATTEN narrative will be in one font.  My comments, another. 

 

    The full text of BRATTEN (with diagrams) can be found at:

 

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/Theses/pdf-files/Bratten-PhD1997.pdf

 

Exterior Planking.  Philadelphia is planked with five 1-1/2-inch-thick white oak strakes. The lowermost strake is spiked directly to the outside edges of the bottom planking the latter had already been beveled flush with the outer face of the frames. Individual strakes are composed of three to four planks that butt each other on the center of a frame. The planks are fastened to every frame with a minimum of four iron nails. Strake ends were secured in their rabbets with seven or eight nails driven into the stem or stem posts. The edges of the planks were probably beveled to receive caulking material.

 

Wale.  Philadelphia has one rectangular wale 3 inches thick and 4-1/2 inches wide running directly below the sheer strake. On each side of the vessel the reinforcing member is made from two pieces of white oak fastened by a simple flat scarf over a span of four frames. The wale is attached to the vessel with one spike at every frame position. Three iron nails and one spike were used to secure the timber to the stem and stemposts. Hoffman notes that the l-inch-diameter bolts for the midship deck knees also pass through the wales.

 

Reminder:  The top strake is actually two strakes in the kit.  Since kit-strake 1 is the same width as the wale, it would probably get 1 nail and the kit-strake 2 would get 3 nails.

 

Basically 4 nails per plank per frame.  Kit only has 16 frames while Philly had 39.  I am putting a 'frame' between each of the kit frames except at the cockpits.  They will have two extra.  This will only give me 34 frames...close enough.  It looks like the bottom strake is nailed evenly across the bottom.

 

 

 

Ceiling

Philadelphia has two types of internal planking or ceiling, side ceiling and what Hoffman refers to as flooring. After the keelson was installed. 1-1/2 inch thick ceiling was installed over the rectangular floor timbers in a fore-and aft-direction.  Floor ceiling is white oak of varying width (10 to 18 inches). The planks closest to the centerline of the vessel butt against the keelson while the outboard planks are beveled to fit around the frames. The ceiling is attached to each floor timber with two or three iron nails. A well area, approximately 2 feet 5-1/2 inches by 1 foot, 9-1/2 inches was created in the stem (???) by cutting out a rectangular portion of the flooring on each side of floor timber twenty-five.  Hoffman suggests that a bailing cover may have been present but was not recovered, presumably floating away when the vessel sank.

 

Side ceiling was also fashioned from white oak, but 1/4 inch thinner than flooring. Four ceiling strakes of varying width (10 to 12 inches) are present on both sides of the vessel. The uppermost ceiling plank is placed at the same height as the corresponding external plank, effectively covering the frames up to their tops. The lowermost ceiling plank sits directly on the flooring. Side ceiling was secured with three nails at every frame position. The ends of every strake were beveled to butt against the stem and stem posts and are fastened to each post with seven or eight nails in staggered pattern.  

 

Floor and side ceiling plank nailing.  Also noted is some deck planking and mast support knees.

 

 

[Chuck Seiler]

Forward platform decking and 12 pounder gun slide.

 

 

 

Dave used Beech to plank his model.  Beech is a very good scale oak.  PHILADELPHIA was planked in white oak.

 

 

 

Midships gun platform.  He doesn't use as many nails per plank per frame here...not sure why.

 

Note support knees-single bolt through hull and deck (each) with a nail at each end.  The bolt through the side will pass thru the hull and be visible on the model exterior.  I don't think the model has these, but I am adding them to mine and will discuss it as it arises.

 

Note thole pins and bits on the cap rail.

 

 

 

 

Aft cockpit.

 

 

 

 

Aft platform, starboard arms locker, stern breast hook (not shown on model). 

 

Note square hole under the swivel gun.  That was originally where the deck beam for the after platform ran.  Arnold intended a mortar to be placed back there.  After the mortar exploded during testing, the deck was lowered but the holes remained.  The other holes are covered by the arms locker.

 

Breast Hooks

One breast hook of naturally-curved white oak was placed at each end of the vessel. Both are approximately 5-1/2 inches thick and positioned about half-way up the stem and stempost. The bow breast hook has an arm length of approximately 3 feet, while the opposite member spans a distance of 2 feet. (I think that means the one on the stern.)   Forelock bolts were used to secure these timbers to the stem and sternpost and nails were used to fasten them to the ceiling.

 

The model doesn't appear to have breast hooks.  I am still thinking about whether I want to include them or not.  Thought?

 

 

 

 

Exposed floor beams, frames and deck support beams.  Rocks were added under the after platform deck to add ballast to compensate for the mortar that was removed.  Note: The deck support beams appear to follow side frames/knees rather than the floor beams.

[dgbot]

Your post is a keeper.  I will be filing it away for future reference.  Thanks for going to the trouble.

David B

[chborgm]

I agree I have learned more from this forum than I have in the 20 + years of model building.

Thanks for all your effort.

[bebopsteve]

A big Thanks to all the guys and their insights! Invaluable!

[Chuck Seiler]

Huzzah!  I finally have the side planking done....for the starboard side.  I would have posted pics sooner except I was using it for a Thanksgiving garnish tray.

 

 

 

I am relatively happy with the result.  There are areas that need work, but over all...  It looks alot better in real life.  The camera reveals alot of flaws.

 

I think the plank joints with the stem looks good.  I need to add some stock on the underside of the stem and stern pieces due to the underside planking I added.  The sanding job in the area of the wale is less than great.  It doesn't matter because I will be adding an additional layer there soon.  While I had not planned it this way, the slight depression will help me place the extra layer.

 

 

 

From the other end.  I see some areas that need work.

 

 

 

Close up of stern.  Alot of sanding dust still there. 

 

I had originally wiped the model down with an alcohol soaked rag; enough to wipe the dust but not so much as to affect the glue joints.  The alcohol evaporated quickly without raising the wood grain.  One benefit was to reveal glue residue.  While the glue evaporated quickly from the wood surface, it soaked into the glue residue on the wood surface.  This made it very visible and easy to scrape off using a scalpel.

[Chuck Seiler]

I wanted to take this opportunity to drill bolt holes in the wale for the main gun deck support knees.  These were not shown in the model plans but were in the Smithsonian plans and the Yotter model.

 

I originally had pencil dots, but they didn't show up.

[mtaylor]

The bad thing about the camera is that it sees the flaws that we don't.  It's also sometimes the good thing.  I thought she was looked great and then you pointed out the issues.  Well.. she still looks great and probably more like the original did. 

 

A garnish tray?  Hmm... make it out of something water proof and you'll and you'll have a gravy boat.

[bebopsteve]

Looks Awesome! I

[bebopsteve]

Chuck, are you going to plank the entire underside? I am almost done with hull planking,Will post some pics hopefully tonite.

[Chuck Seiler]

Steve,

 

    Bottom is already planked.  See

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7451-continental-gunboat-philadelphia-by-chuck-seiler-model-shipways-124-scale-enhanced/?p=230292

 

    The only underside yet to do is the piece under the stem and stern...and sand...and stain.