to treenail or not to treenail?

[vossy]

that is the question? given they don't really stand out too much on the real article i'm

wondering why i should bother? i know it seems most "hot" builds here go with the

pronounced deck treenail configuration but in reality they are almost invisible. so: to treenail

or not to treenail? that is the question.

[geoff]

there's no real answer to this one, I think this way. Take a 1" diameter treenail, reduce it to 1/64", (a common model shipbuilding scale) & then ask yourself  "Is it really worth it"? The other side of the coin is that some models look spectacular with a treenailed deck , or hull. It's all down to personal taste really. Hope that helps, a bit!

[vossy]

g'day brian,

                   are you the member building the trumpeter bismark? i noticed that float a boat had this kit in stock when i visited.

price i think was 330 odd. question for you: how much for the upgrade kit to this plastic model? as an ex pusser would love to

tackle her but only if i can get wooden decks, authentic blast bags etc etc.

 

cheers chris

[vossy]

ok sorry. was just blown away by the size of the box. and yes i now know your bismark is a wooden kit (envious). 

you are doing a superb job on her. congratulations. funny how a ship our nation so reviled when she was afloat

has now become one of the most admired ships in modern history!

 

cheers chris

[druxey]

One can treenail a model subtly. It depends on the diameter of the material used and the specie. However, at any scale below 1:48 it would be very difficult to carry out subtly enough!

[augie]

That's the way I do it Joe.  Except I use a small drill bit (perhaps a #75 on a 1:64) to insure consistency of the holes.  Yes, it needs to be very subtle below 1:48 scale.

[geoff]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Chuck described this method? I intend to try it on some scrap before committing it to my next model. Endeavour hopefully!!

[augie]

You 'nailed it' Geoff.  Time spent making samples before committing to a full deck or hull is well spent. 

[Bill Hime]

One thing I've learned from hours of studying the builds on this site is that there is a right way and a wrong way to do treenails. Not so much in the technique used, dowel or filler, but in placement. The pattern, size and consistency, seems to define the aesthetic success of the application.  

 

Warm regards,

 

Bill

[JPett]

Ahoy Mates

 

I am a big fan of the treenail (who would have thought) 

 

 Just like many of the other "slightly out of scale items"  we joyfully add to our builds; treenails represent an important aspect of the actual construction of these ships, add interest to your build and look great. If your abilities are up to the task you should always consider including some 

 

 

[testazyk]

I agree with Joe and Geoff as far as the way to do it.  As far as whether to do it I think Bill Hime is right--if you can't get it too look right don't bother.  No one will look at your deck and say "mmm no trenails" but they could well look at it and say "what a crummy job on the trenails."

[hornet]

Treenails are not always invisible. I recently took a heap of photos of the Endeavour Replica which lives at the Australian Maritime Museum in Sydney. It is one of the most accurate maritime replicas in existence. The treenails were quite noticeable.

 

 

I did some calculations for the size of a treenail using the diameter of the actual treenail on this replica as a guide. In reality the treenails were about  34mm in diameter. Using the trusty modelscaler app on my phone this came out as about  0.5mm on a 1:64 scale model. This is visible. However, on a model any smaller than 1:64 I think it would be too difficult to make treenails small to be in scale and they would be practically invisible even if you managed it.

 

Due to the one size fits all attitude of mass production, another point worth considering, in my opinion, is that in some cases the actual deck planks provided with some kits are out of scale.

Edited October 7, 2014 by hornet

[grsjax]

Speaking of making very small diameter treenails you might want to consider using bamboo.  Bamboo can be draw down to very small diameter without breakage.  May not be worth the effort but it can be done.

[hornet]

 

Yes, bamboo is my favoured material as well, drawn through the Byrnes draw plate. I still think that beyond 1:64 it is probably not worth the effort.

 

The thread below also discusses tree nailing options. I detailed a small tool you can make to do the initial dividing of the bamboo before drawing it through a draw plate.. Saved me a lot of bamboo splinters - nasty little beggars!!!!

 

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2959-treenail-detail-option/

[JPett]

Ahoy Mates  

 

I use a Dremel to push pretty much anything through my drawplate. If it fits in the chuck its a treenail in about 5 seconds. 

[vossy]

wow! didn't expect my innocent question to attract a 2 page response. and i'm still

tossing up whether to treenail bounty's deck or not. i'm using a 4 butt shift so i guess

it may enhance the pattern somewhat.

 

cheers chris

[hornet]

Brian, could you possibly post a pic of what your silver ash tree nails look like once fitted to a deck. I've not used this timber for tree nails before and would be very interested to know how it looks. You are right, bamboo is a bit of a pain but it gives a good strong treenail that is easy to insert and provides a nice contrast to most decking timber.

[mtaylor]

Chris,

 

It's basically boiling down to: "It's your ship.  You are the Captain.  Do it your way".  Treenail seems to one of the more "emotional" topics around here with "yes", "no", "do it this way", "do it that way".   There really is no right or wrong way as far as method nor are they mandatory.

[vossy]

jeez brian;  just when i think a decision has been reached you hit me with this stunning pic!

well i will finish planking then post pics and see what the consensus is. great build by you

by the way.

 

cheers chris

[hornet]

Thanks for posting that pic Brian. BTW - great work. I can see the treenails. Will have to investigate further.

 

Steve (hornet)