some beginner questions about stains and varnish

[harbm]

couple of questions:

 

1. I over sanded my deck and now it's lost its graininess and colour. I don't want to use any paint on my boat and one with just a natural wooden nice looking finish. What should I do to correct this?

 

2. Should I build the whole boat first and then worry about the finish? Or should I apply stains/varnish and so on step by step? For example, should I varnish the deck before planking the sides of the boat and installing the masts?

 

Thanks!

[HIPEXEC]

Show a photo and we might be able to help

[hornet]

I think finishing the hull planking, staining, varnishing and coppering ( if applicable) should be completed before fitting the deck planks - if possible. Deck planks ( if fitted over a ply false deck) tend to be thin and can easily be damaged while working on the hull. If you have already fitted the deck planks then giving them a coat of varnish or a spray of polyurethane would help protect them from any damage you may do while working on the hull. If you have over sanded the deck planks, you may consider fitting new ones over the top of the old (as I said, they are very thin) but do it AFTER you finish the hull planking and finishing. In my opinion you should definitely varnish or polyurethane the deck before fitting other items such as companionways or masts.

[mtaylor]

There should be a caveat here on finishing first...  glue doesn't always stick to finishes.  Test first.  You may have to scrape or sand the areas where deck furniture will be glued down.

[hornet]

Good point Mark, I usually finish my decks with polyurethane and PVA sticks quite well to it but maybe some varnishes or oils are a different story.

[mog]

Harbm

Agree with Hornet, not much you can do with over sanding,  refitting might be your best choice,  on deck planks. or  anything in the  .05mm range I very light sand just to smooth,  stain  or varnish will bring out the grain .  Mark being an old hand is  right about always testing on  scrap first .   I  tend to stay away from paint as much as possible,  so  I use  different types of wood, using stain & oil on the build.  All will effect different types of woods, in allot of different ways. If your building style is no paint  then trial and error on test pieces is a must. I would also highly recommend keeping a log on what works when you test,  down to how many coats it took to get the right shade.   So far on my Rattlesnake I have used  several different stains, and mixed several  to get the right shades and tones  There’s no way to keep it all in your head, plus keeping a log not only tells you how you got that right shade,  you will at some point have to go back and redo or touch up an item or area , you want it to look the same .  So I log what I used on hulls, rails, decks ect. Again we all have our own styles; the site is a great place to get advice and good ideas while finding out what works for you and your build

MOG

[Bill Hime]

In the future, you might try lightly sanding with fine grit then varnish and/or stain. Then follow with lightly sanding with ultra fine steel wool...apply as many coats as necessary, each coat followed with steel wool until desired look is achieved. Finish by lightly cleaning with a damp cloth, then wax and polish.

 

After you sand and apply stain/varnish, it raises the grain. The following sanding takes the top of the grain back down while the product fills the voids. After several coats and finishing, the wood is properly sealed showcasing the beauty of the wood.

 

Sincere Regards,

 

Bill

Edited October 16, 2014 by Bill Hime

[testazyk]

Lots of great advice here.  I'd only add that you may not have actually oversanded--the thin planks you get for deck planking in a lot of kits don't have much grain in the first place.  If you think the deck looks really boring you could add some detail in the form of trenails or simulated caulking and there are lots of good posts here about those things.

 

I try to avoid paint wherever possible and use varnish.  I also avoid finishes like linseed oil.  Although they look great, unless you put your ship in a case it will attract a lot of dust.

 

Because I varnish everything I usually wait until the very end to do it and only do places that will be hard to access.  I do that for a couple of reasons. First, and very important as someone mentioned, glue doesn't stick well with some varnished surfaces.  Also, if you do your finishing piecemeal you can get irregularities which no one will see--but you will! 

 

One other thing--I usually do varnish small parts that I will be filing or sanding because the varnish can help prevent splits. 

 

Good luck!

 

Tom

[harbm]

Thanks everyone, someone requested that I post a picture. Here it is. My complaint is that it's really white and almost a bit flat looking without the separation of the planks being emphasized anymore because of the excess sanded materials filling the voids. 

 

Thanks for your suggestions. Do you guys think I should restart or is it salvageable. Maybe the varnish will bring out the grain a little? Or some light stain?

 

 

[harbm]

Actually, scoring between the planks with a very think crafts knife has been giving some very nice results. I'm gonna try going at it with a 0.3 mm pencil too. Thanks for the suggestions! 

[vossy]

g'day mate,

                   i score each of my deck planks with a 2b grey lead pencil on either side and end before laying them. i find even after a good, albeit light sanding with 240 grit the caulking effect is just right for me (i am captain after all).  i tend to use lime wood 0.5mm strips for my planking (wether supplied with the kit or not - amati bounty supplied walnut strips which i considered too dark so i bought replacements from my favourite shop - hello float-a-boat - for 8 bucks). this timber is quite pale so i reckon i might stain with a light oakish type of colour.  i do recommend however to do test patches on scrap timber before committing the final colour to your build.

 

cheers chris

[tulok]

The grain will be more visible once you apply some finish, especially oils like tung oil, however, as previously mentioned, finishes may affect glue adhesion so you may want to apply it a bit later. 

 

By the way, IMHO, I think the grain in your wood deck looks just fine since the less pronounced grain makes it look more "to scale"    

Actually, many woods used by scratchbuilders such as boxwood, pear or holly are chosen because they have less pronounced grain.

[mog]

Looking at the pic of the deck, whats wrong with it ? You can see the planking, the lines look good. A deck is a well worn area, about the only place you will see one look like new is maybe a yacht.  My spin is it will be just fine with some stain or oil, the lines  will  standout and different shades of planks will come out. Your first description made it sound like the deck looked like plywood, again like Tulok said once you put something on it you will see a major difference. Just don’t try to over think this into an over fixed mess,  go with what the natural wood gives you  and you will be fine

MOG

[harbm]

Thanks tulok and mog!! tulok, what you said makes sense, I'll try some tung oil 

[Jaager]

Try a brown or red brown artists pencil for the caulking.  Then scrape the deck with a single edge razor blade ( hold the blade near vertical to surface). As a last step, this leaves to pores of the wood open to the finish - instead of filled with wood flour.

Make sure all traces of steel wool are removed. Bits left behind can react with some finishes and rust stain the wood.

Tung oil 1st coat - cut to 50% with mineral spirits.

Consider an old product - shellac - a thinned coat of super blonde may be worth a look.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Jaager