HMS Pickle by flyer - FINISHED - Caldercraft - Scale 1:64 - my interpretation

[Martin W]

So you actually hire your crew?  Do you conduct interviews to assess their seaworthiness?

 

Peter, I failed to comment on the Dublin pub you visited:  from the looks of it, I would say the beer there tasted GREAT!

 

Is the Pickle's name painted wooden letters?

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Mirabell61]

Nice rudder stand and Name letters Peter,

 

the barefoot helmsman finds that the tiller has just the right hight...

 

Nils

[flyer]

Hi B.E.

Thank you.

And you were right, of course, with your remarks about the carronades - although I must admit I never test fired them. But the relatively short muzzles were obviously always a risk to the sides and even more to the rigging.

In the meantime I spied again on your pickle and strengthened the rudder top with iron bands. Thanks for all the useful tips in your log.

 

Hi Martin

Tried to have an interview but they never answer. On the other hand 'answering' is an offence under the articles of war. As long as they do any assigned duty to the best of their abilities, are willing to accept the wages (none, except some fleeting fame in a obscure webpage about model shipbuilding) and above all are within the required height limits (1/64) and are wearing some fitting clothes they have a good chance to get hired even if they are dumb.

About that Dublin pub: It is great, gemuetlich(do you really use this German expression in English?), also serves a fine Irish coffee and was founded a good thirty years before Pickle was built! When I asked timidly for a beer which was not a Guinness (sorry) I got a very fine local lager although my daughter, checking it out, found that it was brewed somewhere in the Guinness empire anyway.

The Pickles letters are etched brass letters provided with the kit and brushed with gold paint.

 

Thank you Nils.

In earlier builds I just had a dummy made of a length of dowel with a knob at the end depicting a 1,75m tall scale man. But using the figures is definitely more fun.

The helmsman was a great help in adjusting the tiller. I would recommend any ship modeller to test his build occasionally with scale figures - I know you do the same and get absolutely stunning ships.

 

 

Cheers

Peter

[flyer]

_{Initially I joined the hatch frame corners with 45° joints. I thought a decent carpenter would work like this. Then I found in the clever books that a completely and incidentally simpler solution was used which also took the strain on those corners better.}

_{So much for avoiding the easy way.}

 

 

_{Whom the bell tolls...}

_{As said before I constructed a belfry according to an illustration in 'The Global Schooner'. Sides and top were constructed with doubled and sanded 5x1mm walnut strips. The bell is from the shop and the small parts came from the kit.}

_{Most of the furniture on the deck is only provisionally fixed. Before putting it permanently in place I will have to go over the rigging plans to find out which additional belaying points I will have to construct for the running rigging with sails set.}
 

 

 

_{45° joint. Not so easy to make}

 

 

_{joint according to several clever books}

 

 

_{finishing work on the belfry}

 

 

_{a simple but pleasing construction}

[Martin W]

Ahh, I can only imagine trying to make miters at this scale.  You clearly have very nimble fingers, and a mighty shipload of patience.

[mobbsie]

Hi Peter

 

She's coming together really nicely mate.

 

Mitre joints are fiddly but well worth the effort, and ship of this standard deserves all the skill, time and effort you put into her.

 

Well done and keep up this very high standard.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[flyer]

Hi Martin and Mobbsie

 

Didn't know that it is called mitre - joint. This is a rather agnostic ship but I will use those joints anyway in the future.

Making them is relative easily done:

- prepare a grating of the required size

- glue two pieces of the frame with enough over length onto the longer sides

- file the top halves of the projecting parts away - flush with the short sides

- prepare the short sides of the frame by filing the bottom halves of their ends back to the width between the existing parts

- glue in place

- sand all around flush (and the top convex as required)

It's really faster and easier than matching four 45° joints around the gratings.

 

My nimble fingers? I'm just tattering around until it fits - more or less.

And my family hardly ever accuses me of being over patient ...

 

Thank you all for the likes and positive feedback.

Cheers

Peter

[Martin W]

Peter -- I believe the 45 degree joint is called a miter joint, and the one with the two ends overlapping each other is a lap joint.  I'm no expert, but that's just what I think.  At any rate, those hatches do look good.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Cathead]

Martin,  you're correct.

[flyer]

What an interesting and rewarding discussion! That picture alone of Victory's grating in Spyglass' link above is as good as a manual for the construction of hatches.

 

The way the timbers overlap at the (lap) joints coincides also with W. zu Mondfelds book which I used as reference.

 

Be aware Spy: Intuition is a tricky thing even for somebody who is a sailor salted to the bone. Take me for example - being married for umpteen years (always to the same wonderful woman) still leaves using intuition in homely matters a dicey business. Better use solid, verified facts. And remember that the sea as well as the ships are female...

 

Cheers

Peter

[flyer]

Between working on the deck furniture I was trying to find a suitable rigging plan for my pickle. I did question the height of the masts as well as several other issues B.E. already researched in his Pickle log. He also described the rig as quite lofty and I had myself the impression that the masts were quite tall for a schooner with that draft. Another point was the position of the fore gaff - above or below the yard. In the online collection of  the National Maritime Museum I found several plans of schooner rigs and most of them had the gaff below the yard. Following B.E.'s discussion of that point I still tend to the kits position but as I intend to hoist sails I will have a look at the situation when the masts and spars are ready to mount and will decide then.

 

For answers I mainly turned to four sources:

1) Sketches of the Adonis – class schooners in ‘The Global Schooner’ (TGS)

2) sail plan of an unnamed schooner from the collections of the Royal Museums Greenwich

3) the kits plans and manual

4) the excellent build log of B.E.'s Pickle

 

To find my mast sizes I compared the rigs of the first tree sources. The hull in all 3 is of approximately the same length but the year of origin of 2) is unclear.

 

Another source could have been Robert Dodds well known painting. But the rig there is even loftier than that of the kit and might have influenced the kit builders. I believe that generally contemporary artistic representations of sailing vessels - paintings or prisoner of war models -  tended to exaggerate the already impressive height of the rig. This is understandable if you consider that a warships masts stood taller than most other manmade objects.

 

 

'My Pickle' shows the last of several tries. A rough sketch of the intended proportions was made in comparison to the kit for every try. Below is the final comparison with the kits proportions on top. As you can see in the table above the main changes were to reduce the heights of both masts and to decrease the length of the bowsprit while lengthening the (rather stumpy) jibboom.

 

 

 

 I find the new proportions look quite plausible but would very much appreciate any comments.

 

 

 

[flyer]

Well Spy, your aim is quite off the target - I'm so green, I'm almost black.

 

A lovely vessel matching her surroundings. Do you know when she was built? I would like to see her underwater hull. If she has a fin, she should be able to counterbalance higher masts than an older building type which would have to rely more on the ballast. Anyway if I take rough measurements out of your pictures and compare the height of the mainmast to the length of the deck I get something between the proportions of the kit and my interpretation. No clear argument there. I love the pictures and thanks for the information.

 

Cheers

Peter

[Martin W]

I have to join in with Peter:  I am eating my liver with envy.  Oh, oh, oh.  Off Fiji!!!  That hard-luck "bed"!!!  Those blue waters!!!

 

The measurements I have to leave to you guys (not surprisingly).

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Blue Ensign]

Your revised proportions look fine to my eye Peter, but then the originals didn't look out of place either, but did need tweaking to give them a finer appearance on the model.

 

I spent hours looking at  drawings and photo's of schooners both modern and historic, and came to the conclusion that schooner rig could be almost anything you wanted it to be. As we know there is no definitive details of how Pickle looked apart from the Dodd painting, and as has been pointed out there may well have been a 'bigging up' element in that depiction.

 

I fretted for hours over the Schooner mast Gaff position but finally it was the enormous roach to the topsail that would result from fitting the gaff above the crossjack yard to avoid excessive rubbing of the Fore and jib stays, that decided me to fit it below.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

[flyer]

Thanks for the feedback, B.E. As you say, all sorts of rigs are possible. Upon my first look at the Pickles kit I had the impression that the masts were too close together, maybe the foremast positioned to much aft. Then I found that the masts positions coincide with those of other schooners. My reduced height now corrects that first impression.

 

You could call it only intuition, but I find, that the eye adapts to a suitable balance of sails or a successful  hydrodynamic (or aerodynamic) form and finds it pleasing. And for me a ship model with hundreds of hours invested into the build should look fine (this also helps in possible discussions with the admiralty). That's why I will relinquish to build a model e.g. of the Endeavour. That ship is extremely interesting, well documented and there are excellent kits on the market but the prototype was a rather coarse workhorse built mainly to transport large volumes of coal at the lowest costs (not unlike the Short Skyvan - which is a flying oxymoron - an ugly aircraft).

 

 

Cheers to beauty and elegance (not in me - absolutely hopeless - but perhaps in some objects I tinker)

Peter

Edited October 8, 2015 by flyer

[Blue Ensign]

That is one ugly aeroplane Peter, I don't think I could build a model of that, but I rather like the Endeavour's chunky look and bluff bows, it has  appeal for me.

 

B.E.

[Cathead]

Peter, I agree on the inherent appeal of nice lines. When deciding on a future ship build, Mrs Cathead was unconvinced of several ships I found historically interesting (Beagle, Charles Morgan, Endeavour) because they looked to stolid and square. When I showed her a few schooner rigs she was hooked.

[flyer]

Time for an update on Pickle.

 

I checked the necessary belaying points for the additional lines needed with sails set. As usual the kit provides just enough for the minimal rigging which is foreseen. In all the pin racks the spacing of the pins is too big which accounts for the lack of belaying points. However there seem to be some easier solutions than changing all the racks by:

- putting some additional cleats on the foots of the mast and on the bowsprit.

- using shroud cleats where possible

- changing the bowsprit step to a mast bit with some additional pins. As I understand the kit treats this as anchor bits. However - according to Marquardt -  on vessels with a windlass you used that instead of an anchor bit and no anchor bits were installed.

- double use some pins where unavoidable (as on all the kits so far).

 

In the meantime the furnishing of the deck continued. Following B.E.'s example I whitewashed the inside of the companion way - wondering how fast it would change to grey washed through daily use.

 

To gain some additional inches for the stowing of the boats the wooden galley flue was replaced by a metal tube (ironically made of some leftover wooden dowels). I never did like the idea of a wooden galley flue on a wooden ship anyhow.

 

The channels were added. With the relatively short dead eye chains I expect some mighty tilting effect on the channels and added some knees (only standards above the channels).

 

Finally the first elm tree pump is ready to pump the bilge free of any rainwater going in there.

 

 

bowsprit step as mast bit with additional pins

 

 

companion way and deadlights

 

 

new iron galley flue made of wood

 

 

making of the channels

 

 

the first elm tree pump is ready

 

 

[Mirabell61]

very nice Fitting out on deck Peter,

 

that opening companionway is just lovely....

 

Nils

[Blue Ensign]

Nice work Peter, she's coming along a treat. Pickle is such a pretty little vessel, no wonder our wives like this model, although I suspect the more space friendly size has something to do with it.

 

B.E.

[flyer]

Hi Nils

Danke. The companionway is a unabashed copy of B:E.'s.

 

Hi Spy

Yes, those are the kits original railings. I just took them out of the sheet and cleaned them.

 

Hi B.E.

Yes, small is beautiful! In our country we deeply believe in this.

 

Cheers

peter

[riverboat]

Nice work Peter... I like that open companionway , looks real good!!

 

Frank

[dgbot]

Your channels and deadeyes look great.  Along with the rest of your build.  Neat and tidy.

David B

[flyer]

Hi Spy

 

Bad luck, especially if you are you planning to leave much of the wood unpainted. But if you use plywood you will have to paint the narrow side anyway in wood color. Perhaps you could even cover some repairs that way. But a big wooden piece is seldom of an entirely uniform color and I think the prototype also had repairs where only parts of a plank or a rail were replaced and small color changes therefore were common.

 

 

Hi David

 

Thanks. You better don't see my workbench. Apparently tidiness is rising out of chaos.

 

Cheers

peter

[JRB9019]

Hi Peter

 

Admiring your Pickle build. I read that you are planning to add sails.

Interesting - I have the same plans - but I am planning to have mine furled.

However, I have started my investigations into the additional running rigging and belays that will be needed (up- Down-haul, sheets etc.) so will be keeping a keen eye on your findings!

 

However, I have noticed that you have just fixed the Channels and Deadeye Strops - which is exatly where I am on my build.

Can you (or anyone else!!) translate the "Spring the 'nubs' of the strop, with deadeye, into ach locating slot"??

 

What happens to the pieces of the strop that bend outward at the top of the strop? Once the deadeye is fitted, are these bent downwards? I can't quite work it out.........

 

Many thanks

 

[flyer]

Hi John

 

Thank you very much for the admiration.

 

Those deadeye strops in the Pickle kit are indeed of a somehow unique construction. I just squeezed all the protruding stubs into the slits in the channels and sealed them with a healthy dose of CA while gluing on the 1,5 by 1,5 mm strip. In order to get the strength to withstand the pull of the shrouds its absolutely necessary that the upper stumps are fixed within the channels slits!

 

By the way I put furled sails on both my other models documented in those pages, Pegasus and Granado. Perhaps this could give you some additional ideas about furled sails. I'm quite happy with the way the sails are on Pegasus although I probably made a mistake there as the spanker, when set with a boom, shouldn't be furled to the mast but the gaff should be lowered to the boom and the sail furled between them. Frank(riverboat) shows some nice examples on his builds.

 

Cheers

peter

[JRB9019]

Thanks for the help Peter.

 

I has started to press these stubs down, but got worried that I was going to snap them!

 

I will try again - but first, I will paint the Channels leaving the front and back edges clean so that they will stick better later on....

 

So anyway, I had a quick look at Pegasus. It seem like you've done this before!!!! This is seriously beautiful work, Congratulations.

 

Is your location correct by the way? You live in Lenzburg?

 

Regards

John

[flyer]

A few things remained to be done to finish the deck equipment. First were the navel pipes, a somehow strange set of holes to lead the anchor cables below. As B.E. mentions in his log it seems to be an unique feature of Pickle and is seldom heard of. I decided to use some holes in the foremost part of the main hatch cover instead, using a similar arrangement as on Granado. This solution is also that one, which is mainly used in Marquardts book.

Also my skipper was unwilling to take the risk to drift rudderless over the sea. I contributed some rudder chains for his comfort.

And a first provisional boat stand was on trial on the foredeck. Phew, the boat just fits into the intended space. I hope it will still fit after the mast is definitely in place and rigged.

 

2 openings in the fore hatch cover replace the navel pipes

 

 

rudder chains

 

 

provisional placement of the launch

 

 

the deck looks already properly crowded with equipment

Edited November 1, 2015 by flyer

[Martin W]

Peter -- It's more than good of you to accede to the wishes of your captain.  Isn't there an old saying about a "Rudderless Ship"? 

 

A crowded deck is a busy deck.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin (who've been referred to as "rudderless" a few times)

[JRB9019]

Peter, Re Rudder Chain

 

I've seen that 1:64 Rudder chain can be purchased in either 8 or 12 links per inch. Which size do you use?

 

Also, the only supplier I've found is Jotika and they are selling it by the metre - which is a lot of chain!!!

 

Anyone know of any other UK suppliers where less can be purchased?

 

Thanks

 

John 

Edited November 6, 2015 by JRB9019