thibaultron

Cap'n'Bob,
Thanks for the picture and description. Still think the dredge will damage the hull when pulled up on deck. The roller are at the widest breath of the skipjack so the cable should be off the side of the hull, but the dredge is wide and, from what I can see, the only thing that would keep the dredge off the side of the hull would be the man tending the dredge. I checked some pictures I had from the 2010 NRG conference and the tour of St. Michael's. There was a skipjack on the rails and looking from the stern the side rail, where the dredge would come up was badly chewed up, but then the skipjack itself looked like a wreck................. feathermerchant
.

Hi Ron - thanks for putting the time and effort into this tutorial.  You've obviously developed a lot of knowledge in 3D drafting.  Even if I don't follow that path, the closeup images of the winder will be very useful to me.

Maybe this will help.
 
Bob
 

Part 10C
 
The back side was treated as with the others. On this side I cut away less of the curved area, As this side already slopes more toward the tab's surface.
 

 

 

 

 
 
The last side was then connected. Note that I again redrew the corner to include the full length of the adjoined curved surface.
 

 

 

 

 
These are pictures of the completed end.
 

 

 
Looking at the end, I decided that the slope of the first side was to sharp, so I redrew it going one line of surfaces back.
 

 
Next time back to the winch drawings, and the point I had originally planned to start, before I decided that I needed to cover the previous material first.
 

Part 10B
 
Next I took a face, and decided where the best line was to start the transition on the side. I started with the hump of the curve, as that will be the side with the most difference between the curved and flat surfaces.
 
I removed the two surfaces that touched the flat, at the point I wanted to start.
 

 
Then I drew a line between the two intersections, to use as the end of the transition slope.
 

 
Next I erased the surfaces between the ones I just deleted.
 

 
I erased the orphaned end of the bar, and extended the line around the entire tab. I will use this as the ending of the slopes around the finished transitions. If a blacksmith flattened the end, this would be how he treated all the sides, making them line up at the start of the flat area. At least, that’s how I would.
 

 

 

 
I then connected the corners of the curved surfaces, to the edge of the line on that side. This ties the curves to the flat, and will serve as two of the corners of the transitions. When I am done the top section of the tab will have been erased, above the bottom of the four transition slopes.
 

 
I connected the endpoints of the curves to the line, forming the outline of the transition.
 

 
Using the triangle method I filled in the slope.
 

 
Starting on the second side, I erased one row above the first, I erased one row above that of the first side, as the curved surfaces were closer to the flat surface of the tab. I also erased the upper area of the tab.
 
On the left you can see that there is a corner left on the last curved surface, of that first side.
 

 

 
 
I erased the sloped border line, and redrew it to include the full length of that surface.
 

 
I continued in the same manner as for the first side, to fill in this one.
 

 

Part 10A
 
Selecting an Object Hint
 
In the tutorial below, I have to erase a fair amount of surfaces. To make it go quicker, there is a trick. If, for example you want to erase two adjoining surfaces, select the line that separates them. It and both surfaces will be erased. Without that line the surfaces now have an open side, and cease to exist.
 
If the surface has one side that is a dashed line, select it, and many times the surface and the solid line will also be erased. I’m not sure why the solid line is erased, but it is.
 

 

 
Transitioning from a Round Object, to a Flat Sided One
 
This is how I did the transitions from the round bar stock of the frame, to flat sided shapes that represent the end that is bolted to the others. There may be better ways I don’t know, but I chose this method, it was simple and straight forward.
 
On this frame the ends of the bars are flattened and bolted together. I figured that in the 1890s, this would be done by a blacksmith. I assumed that he would flatten the ends, making them a little wider. This would not leave smooth machine formed modern looking transitions. This allows me to justify my crude transitions. :-). In 1/32nd and 1/64th scales, they will be all but invisible any way.
 
Here is a finished transitions on some of the smaller bars.
 

 

 
For this part of the tutorial, I will be making the transition between the 1 ¼” diameter dredge bar, to its tab.
 
The next three pictures show the starting point. The round bar overlaps the flat sided tab.
 

 

 

 
In the picture below, I’ve erased all the other parts, to give us a better view of the operations.
 

 

My plan is to use matt clear coat for a mahogny deck. I have tried Humbrol but I don't get the result I want. Instead of grey it's getting a grey tone that doen't look matt at all. It's the same result with 2 different cans. Any tips how to get a good result with matt clear coat? Or any good brand that gives a good result.
 
Thanks, Robert

If you are using the matt clear cote with brush or roller , it's mostly impossible to get an even and homogene matt look .... If you are using airbrush, stir the material well, slightly increase your thinning ratio, slightly increase the pressure ( up to 1-1,2 bar ) and slightly increase your application distance from the surface ..... but first, try all these on another surface and see the result

Thank you for your comment! My ambition was to use a brush since I have no airbrush availible. But that might be imposiible then.
 
It's a Lilla Dan, Billing Boat model.

Whatever you do with brush, you will get a wavy look between matt and satin ..... this is the nature of matt cote .... you can't be able to spread the particles evenly in the material, which causes the matt look, with brush .... try spray varnishes then ....

Part 10C
 
The back side was treated as with the others. On this side I cut away less of the curved area, As this side already slopes more toward the tab's surface.
 

 

 

 

 
 
The last side was then connected. Note that I again redrew the corner to include the full length of the adjoined curved surface.
 

 

 

 

 
These are pictures of the completed end.
 

 

 
Looking at the end, I decided that the slope of the first side was to sharp, so I redrew it going one line of surfaces back.
 

 
Next time back to the winch drawings, and the point I had originally planned to start, before I decided that I needed to cover the previous material first.
 

Part 10B
 
Next I took a face, and decided where the best line was to start the transition on the side. I started with the hump of the curve, as that will be the side with the most difference between the curved and flat surfaces.
 
I removed the two surfaces that touched the flat, at the point I wanted to start.
 

 
Then I drew a line between the two intersections, to use as the end of the transition slope.
 

 
Next I erased the surfaces between the ones I just deleted.
 

 
I erased the orphaned end of the bar, and extended the line around the entire tab. I will use this as the ending of the slopes around the finished transitions. If a blacksmith flattened the end, this would be how he treated all the sides, making them line up at the start of the flat area. At least, that’s how I would.
 

 

 

 
I then connected the corners of the curved surfaces, to the edge of the line on that side. This ties the curves to the flat, and will serve as two of the corners of the transitions. When I am done the top section of the tab will have been erased, above the bottom of the four transition slopes.
 

 
I connected the endpoints of the curves to the line, forming the outline of the transition.
 

 
Using the triangle method I filled in the slope.
 

 
Starting on the second side, I erased one row above the first, I erased one row above that of the first side, as the curved surfaces were closer to the flat surface of the tab. I also erased the upper area of the tab.
 
On the left you can see that there is a corner left on the last curved surface, of that first side.
 

 

 
 
I erased the sloped border line, and redrew it to include the full length of that surface.
 

 
I continued in the same manner as for the first side, to fill in this one.
 

 

Part 10A
 
Selecting an Object Hint
 
In the tutorial below, I have to erase a fair amount of surfaces. To make it go quicker, there is a trick. If, for example you want to erase two adjoining surfaces, select the line that separates them. It and both surfaces will be erased. Without that line the surfaces now have an open side, and cease to exist.
 
If the surface has one side that is a dashed line, select it, and many times the surface and the solid line will also be erased. I’m not sure why the solid line is erased, but it is.
 

 

 
Transitioning from a Round Object, to a Flat Sided One
 
This is how I did the transitions from the round bar stock of the frame, to flat sided shapes that represent the end that is bolted to the others. There may be better ways I don’t know, but I chose this method, it was simple and straight forward.
 
On this frame the ends of the bars are flattened and bolted together. I figured that in the 1890s, this would be done by a blacksmith. I assumed that he would flatten the ends, making them a little wider. This would not leave smooth machine formed modern looking transitions. This allows me to justify my crude transitions. :-). In 1/32nd and 1/64th scales, they will be all but invisible any way.
 
Here is a finished transitions on some of the smaller bars.
 

 

 
For this part of the tutorial, I will be making the transition between the 1 ¼” diameter dredge bar, to its tab.
 
The next three pictures show the starting point. The round bar overlaps the flat sided tab.
 

 

 

 
In the picture below, I’ve erased all the other parts, to give us a better view of the operations.
 

 

I am not and expert, by any means. I just started using SketchUp about 3 months ago. There may be way better ways to do some of this.
 
The content of these posts is what I have learned of its features, while doing these projects. I have been drafting for my own use for several decades, though.

I'm using steamed swiss pear and english boxwood for my models. I have a bunch of it lying around for almost 10 years now and never noticed any warping. The humidity where I live (Brasil) is all year between 70 and 85 %. No problem here.

I stored some Basswood for about 6 months. Our summer humidity 70-90% ruined it. 
 
 
I am looking at aircraft quality Birch Plywood for my next project.
 
My current build I used standard 3 ply lumber yard.  I noticed that when I sanded, I reached the discoloration of the plywood glue. A pink color. Which then required paint.

There are different grades of birch plywood available. I use always aircraft grade plywood which is normally 5 to 10 plys, depending of thickness. Very good flat material, easy to saw, sand, etc, and keeps it's dimensions perfectly. Normally lumber yards sell worse quality board which warps, is not homogenous, etc.

There are dredge cable rollers on the rails on both sides of the boat even with the dredge winder.  The rollers protected the sides of the boat as the dredge was being taken in or out.

 

Bob

What's the consensus on Birch Plywood?
 
I am looking at picking up some Birch Plywood.  3/16  4 ply. The same Birch Plywood used by cabinet makers.
 
I would be using it for any future builds. For Keel and Bulkheads, and misc pieces.
 
Any thoughts?
 
 
 
 

I was just over at the Lowe's store, and they sell it, dimensioned as 0.19 inches. I assume Home Depot would have the same thing, but dimensioned as 3/16". You have to pick through the pile to find the straight piece, but it's doable.
Tom

My next task is to redraw these frames, for a 1/64th scale skipjack. Even with the minimum print size limits, it will be near scale cross section. I could not even come close trying to fabricate them. I'm thinking of drawing up the trailboard base, and a railing that was misshapen on the kit. Buying material small enough for the railing has been elusive. I have a couple of kits that to save money, they do not include all the cannon, another plastic kit where one cannon was misshapen.
 
Other small detail, barrels, fish traps. I saw one that was a whole bunch of blocks for a 1/200th scale modern warship, not sure which one. If you are really talented, scale crew figures.
 
Not all of us can fabricate every detail, like the big guys, nor at my age, am I likely to have the time to develop such skills.

Part 09E
 
Next I copied this frame, and flipped it to get a mirror image.
 

 
Next I moved them together, for the finished frame sides.
 

 
 

 

 
I think that next time, I will show how I connect a cylindrical part to a smaller rectangular type part.  There are probably better ways, but this is what works for me.
 
That should finish the operations that I think were good to use the frame to illustrate.
 

Part 09D
 
Now I need to cut away the second stub of the frame. Because the cylinders of the lower leg of the frame were larger in diameter then the top ones, and I made a cutting plain joint where the upper cylinder met, the lower ones connected further back. I need to preserve this area, for my final frame master part.
 

 
I used the same method of drawing a rectangle, intersecting the faces, and erasing the unneeded cylinder stub.
 

 

 
In the picture below you can see the flat area of the lower cylinder that we need. It is the larger , nearly horizontal curved surface.
 

 

 
After cleaning it up and removing the unneeded surfaces, we end up with this, as the end of the frame the new nose will be attached to.
 

 
Next I made a copy of that good looking Follow Me nose extrusion, and pasted it in place.
 

 
Wait a minute, what happened!!
 
Remember that Follow Me creates intermediate surfaces that are perpendicular to the path? The surface we started with was not perpendicular to the downward curve of the path, only in the straight. Z axis, direction.
 
So Follow me used the reference surface as the outline of the extrusion, but created a new starting face that was perpendicular to the first line of the downward curving path. It then deleted our original surface, leaving this gap.
 
Looking at the two extruded noses from the side, you can see the difference between them on the right hand end (the area where it will connect to the frame)
 

 
So despite having missing surfaces, the Upright Extruded nose is the correct one to use, in this case.
 
The Upright Extrude draws all the intermediate faces parallel to the original one.
 
After pasting this nose on the frame, and filling in the missing surfaces, we have this, as the part for one side of the finished frame.
 

 

 

 

 

Part 09C
 
With the nose separated from the frame, and the centerlines saved, I erased the nose area.
 

 

 
This last area had to be erased line by line, as it was too close to the rectangle, to select them together, and most of them contacted the rectangle, which means that you would have to select the rectangle, and any parts on the other side of it that were inside your selection box needed to capture the whole object, will also select .
 

 
Finally a clean section to start over with.
 

 
To save what I had here, I copied the whole frame, and worked on the copy. I will have to delete the rest (back) of the frame, when I finish the nose, so I can paste the nose onto the frame I copied from.
 
This gives me the rectangle, with the cylinder outlines, and the old centerlines, to begin building a new nose.
 
I drew in the straight lines between the circles to represent the eventual sides of the welded area. Sorry I forgot to make a graphic of this step.
 
To get the outline as a single surface, I had to draw over all the lines that made up the outside outline I wanted. SketchUp should have already made this surface a separate one, but for some reason did not. This happens occasionally, and you have to fix it manually. Most likely some very small line was lost during the removal of all the frame parts. Rather than try to find it, redrawing was quicker.
 
I then removed the outside rectangular surface, and the unneeded half of the new nose outline surface.
 

 
In the above picture, I have also drawn lines connecting the original centerlines, in preparation to draw the line I will use for the extrusion path. I drew from the endpoints along the segments that make up one line to the matching endpoints on the other line.
 
Next I drew a line along the midpoint of each cross line. This gives me a curved line that follows the downward curve of the centerlines, but is straight in the other directions, and perpendicular to the surface I want to extrude.
 

 
I then erased the extra lines between the old centerlines, the centerline that does not touch the surface, and most of the other one, just leaving the section closest to the surface. I left this line segment to use as a reference point when I paste the nose back onto the rear frame section.
The line down the center curves downward in what will be the vertical axis (Y axis), but is straight in the horizontal axis (Z axis).
 

 
I used the “Shift” key feature of selecting, to select all the line segments of the extrusion path. Then I extruded two new noses, using both Follow Me, and the Upright Extruder.
 
For Follow Me: you select the path, Follow Mw, and then the surface to be extruded.
 

 
For Upright Extrude: you select the path and the surface, then Upright Extrude.
 

 
The results from the Follow Me
 

 
The results from the Upright Extruder.
 

 
Keep both! The Follow Me extrusion looks like the winner, hands down, but you will see later why I saved both.
 

Part 09B
 
I need both the centerlines of the lower rods, to use later to create the extrusion path for my new frame nose tips.
 
To do this, I selected all the line segments that make up the centerline.
 
When you need to select more than one object, you select the first, then hold down the “Shift” key, and continue selecting things, Each new object will be added to the previous ones that were selected. Clicking on one of the already selected objects, will remove it from the group you are building.
 
I erased the end surfaces of these rods, for better viewing while doing the selecting. I selected the centerline, zooming along its length, through intervening surfaces, until I had passed the rectangle surface. I then made them a group, then locked the group from editing. Both operations are accessed by right clicking, while over the object, and selecting the operation from the pop-up menu.
 

 

 

 

 

 
The group has been made, shown by the objects being displayed in blue, and the box that shows what overall area the group occupies also in blue.
 

 

 

 
The red Group Box and objects, indicate that that group has been locked from editing. A group can be Unlocked, and returned to individual objects (Explode), using the same pop-up menu.