Mark Pearse
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Hi very lovely model & wonderful boats. A question: in an early photo the hull is massed up with bulkheads & solid blocking - is this the hull that you painted or did you line it off with thin surface planks? You said early on in the posts that there are none in existence? Perhaps there are no original ones left, but a friend from Sydney was involved this year in taking several historic 18 Sydney footers over to USA to race against some sandbaggers. See some information & photos here of the event, (& I am guessing that off centre harbour will do a video on it): https://www.sydneyflyingsquadron.com.au/8-footers-taking-on-the-usa/ https://www.facebook.com/AussieOpenBoat/photos/pcb.1698530063513134/1698525546846919/?type=3 https://smallboatsmonthly.com/2017/09/sydney-flying-squadron-visit-annapolis-md/ It is interesting that there were 22' & 24' skiffs here & from what you can see in the old photos they were really quite similar lines to your lovely model. all the best, very nice, Mark -
thanks Carl, perhaps I'm one of the people (including drunks) that the gods protect from their own ignorance...I had no idea it might be tricky. I heated the plate from underneath & soldered from above. Hi John, appreciate you thoughts on that, I'll work something out to pin them. A small patch in the paint will be straightforward to repair.
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I've shaped the mast, it's been sanded since this photo & one thin coat of varnish applied with a cloth & rubbed until satin finish. The timber is plantation Kauri Pine, lovely fine grain without pores & a good colour for this model. One interesting thing to note is that I bought some 12mm diameter dowel & it looked too thin, even though it was only a small amount under sized. So I made this one at 12.5 - 13mm diameter & it looks right. The mast step is to replicate the kind of fitting mostly used, at least here anyway - which is a roofing fitting called Dektite - designed to shed water on a metal roof around a circular flue. The idea is the brass gets painted dark grey (a rubber boot) & the plate is left silver (aluminium & rubber base). Bad news was that I didn't realise the metal was steel rather than stainless steel, the colour threw me because it has a sandblasted finish. It rusted a bit overnight, so I sanded it & put a coat of varnish on it. If that doesn't work then I'll just paint it grey. The chainplates for the mast shrouds are underway. I didn't plan the installation when building the hull, except to put a kind of sheer clamp in below the deck. I'll glue the chainplates in with epoxy, I think that will work.
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thanks all, the positive character of this forum is very helpful in so many ways. Hi Keith, that's right I don't have many tools but it seems to be enough. Some years ago I built a sailing boat, & when starting wasn't sure what tools I would need so decided to only buy them when I couldn't do the job another way using an existing tool - & I've kept using that philosophy notwithstanding the pangs of looking through catalogues of delicious tools. I can understand the allure of beautiful machinery & learning how to get it purring - plus the amazing results that tools & knowledge together can bring - but this is my way I suppose. I couldn't do without the 10x vision headset. all the best, Mark
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The spreaders are pretty much finished now, the arms are from 3mm brass tube flatten each end with soldered in the squashed end as a filler. Polished & shiny, but I'll likely dull them off to a brownish colour. from forwards, sitting on the stock that will be the mast from aft side, the lower shrouds fixing tangs visible thanks all
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Hi Michael, to be honest, I thought I was silver soldering, but that's a more reliable indication of how little I know than anything else... The product I'm using proudly calls itself 'silver bearing solder' on the packet, but the company's webpage for the product doesn't seem to use the word silver http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Products/Alloys/Soldering/Lead-Free-Solders/Stay-Brite-Kit.aspx You're certainly correct that I can sand the solder afterwards & remove the excess quite easily with sandpaper & files, & am using a Dremel VersaTip butane torch. I also bought some silver bearing solder paste (image below of the product), I have been able to melt it but it's more difficult to get it to flow than the Harris product & I've not experimented enough with it. It would be good to know for certain, to clear it up both for myself & for the benefit of others. Mark
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thank you everyone, Gary I'm new to brazing but I had done some work with brass before. I reckon brass is more similar to working with timber than anything else, it's a pretty soft material to work - it drills, files, sands, polishes all quite easily. The number one thing I've learned is that you don't have to be the world's best brazer, good cleaning up can turn a sow's ear into something surprising - have a supply of small files & sandpaper glued to sticks & try & get some really fine paper, even 2000 grit or finer. Holding the parts when brazing is difficult too. But, this forum has a lot of information & a lot of people very generous with their knowledge & skills. all the best, Mark
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I've made the mast base for the spreaders, the mast ring is open at the forward side - just looking at it now I may widen that a little. The horizontal double flanges are for the spreaders & the tangs behind them are for the lower shrouds. I'll drill the tangs when I've worked out the detail for the shroud ends. The spreaders could be in brass tube with flattened ends, or maybe timber. Timber spreaders would look pretty but I'm not sure that I want to draw attention to them....
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Hi Carl no, in this case I used wire - but my technique has improved. I was careful about the flame direction & the wire & it went easily. Thanks for the prompt, I will experiment with paste. all the best
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I made the boom end fitting of the gooseneck, it will need some small lateral holes for the boom fixings. The process I used was: some flat bar was bent around a shape of a suitable width some other pieces cut, ends shaped & held for brazing finished
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A small update, but an interesting one for me. The gooseneck pin: The 1:12 pin shown alongside a real gooseneck pin. What's striking is the difference seems much more than 12x; & then it dawned on me that 1:12 is really just one way of defining it. The linear scale is 1:12, but the volumetric scale is 1:1,728; when you see the pins together you see the volumetric scale rather than the linear scale. It's a dramatic picture anyway.
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thanks all Hi Carl, yes I do use silver solder. The process is new to me, but after some research - including asking advice in these forums - I got a small butane torch plus silver solder. Is your question related to getting the solder into a more difficult joint, like the tube to flange above? You can see that my efforts to get it into the joint gave me an excess on the other joint. What ended up working was having the torch flame from one side & touching the joint with the wire from the other side. However, I'm interested if you think that silver solder paste will make it more accurate. Hi Bedford, it was more the angle that gave trouble - & of course my inexperience. I'd put the piece of solder wire towards the joint & when it went into the flame it melted & didn't get there. Only when I'd heated from one side & added the solder from the other did it work, & easily too. Lesson learned. Hi John, Keith, thanks & best wishes
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the rudder gudgeon & pintle are now fitted & the rudder is painted, the fitting looks to be in scale The rudder curves are nice, unfortunately a phone camera lens seems to distort the shape of the hull - but you get the idea The next metalwork part is the boom gooseneck. I bent a piece of brass flat bar (about 1.25mm x 4mm) around some wood of the right diameter, cut & brazed it. This is the band that will go around the mast. You can see that it's not exactly round, but I don't think that will show when you can't see the hole, when it's on the mast. like this Flange, grooved one side to help hold the next part, the tube weighted to hold it during brazing, the tube didn't initially want to take the solder... & the result: the next part is the pin, then the part that fits on to the forward end of the boom until next time, MP
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The gudgeon & pintle are now done, the first metalwork component is made & it feels good. I made the pin by brazing a cap onto a piece of rod. I predrilled into some flat bar to make it easier to braze them together. The single drilled tab that will go into the rudder blade, plus the pieces for the pin. Partly brazed, but it needed a bit more solder. The pieces. I sanded the flat bar round & also thinner to keep it in proportion. Done.
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a possible additional reason for the central sheeting of the mainsail is that with such a huge & powerful sail, the third restraint would reduce the load on each by spreading the same load between three points instead of two. Maybe you can also control the sail more easily as well.
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Hi Dick Amazing work, & the sails are beautifully done. I'm not familiar with these vessels but I have some sailing experience. The lateen sails on these pictures are very different in size, it looks to me that the larger stern sail in the painting would screen the main sail but also tend to make steering the vessel more difficult because it's large - the relationship between the sails looks different in the ink drawing. Regarding the general use of these sails, I would think that if you were entering a harbour, you would most definitely have the stern sail up, as that sail in particular would give you the ability to round up into the breeze to slow down or stop. On a different note, the mainsail shape is very interesting, they have a huge upwards billow that doesn't really increase the forwards thrust much - it's possible that the upward billow on the mainsail is intentional to help counteract the tendency of the bows to bury into the water, which would make the boat harder to steer & slower. Why they might need to do this I'm not sure, but the hull shape doesn't look to have as much forwards buoyancy as your more classic square rigged vessel, the buoyancy would counteract the downwards effect. An unrelated example might be helpful to see this - in early Sydney skiffs their spinnakers were set in a way partly to give lift & keep the bows up downwind - the situation is very different, but the size of the billow itself doesn't add power, but it changes the direction of the thrust. See below, a 6 foot skiff (copy of a type from early 1900s) - very very different, but maybe there's a connection....in the photo it's really easy to see how they are trying to stop the downwards effect on the bows. Mark
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thanks all. Hi John, yes I love looking at photos of gaff rigged boats also. Hi Michael, I drilled the holes after brazing - to be sure that a pin will be able to slide through both holes smoothly. I sized the gap between the tangs to match the standard brass size of 1/16th", so that I could clamp a small piece of that size between the tangs when brazing & then drilling. The other part of the assembly, that goes onto the rudder & fits into this part (name?), will be from 1/32nd" flat bar so there's also a small amount of play - as there would be in real life. My metalwork equipment is pretty low-tech, I used one of those small one-hand drill holders for the holes because of the risks of using a standard hand held electric drill being too powerful. Also, I could adjust the location of the drill in the initial stages a small amount, get it more centred by angling it until the hole reached its full size & was then set in location. Mark
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Hi everyone it's been a long break from the model, but been consoling myself plenty of this anyway: I'm starting on the metalwork details & previous efforts showed that I really to need to plan so that the pieces can be held, they are really small & I'm not used to that. So, I'm trying to make sure I ca hold them in some way. I've started on the top rudder gudgeon & pintle assembly, below is the gudgeon started. My method is v-cuts in the brass bar & then fold & solder it. The gudgeon will have a hidden rod into the transom for fixing. Below is the parts folded & the rear pin fitted. Below is after brazing & shaping. thanks, Mark
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Hi a beautiful craft & a really beautiful model. Thanks for sharing the pics. Amazing combination of beam & fine water entry, pity there's none sailing. Mark
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Hi Vaddoc your question about removing the model from the base is tricky but you have more room to do something now than later. One idea is to drill now a series of holes through each mould, at the line where you will cut later. The small piece between adjacent holes will be cuttable with in a series of short cuts, & maybe even with a knife. best of luck, Mark
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HI Martin a lovely yacht & model. Does she come from a working boat background? The lines are amazing & very beautiful. There aren't many yachts here in Australia with lines like that, but for your interest I attached the photos one unusual yacht, built 1905. Like a miniature version of your lovely Vanity, or something similar. A 22' gaff topsail cutter based on a pilot boat lines. good luck with the build, please keep posting Mark
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Hi Vaddoc I also did my first plank as the garboard plank, I hadn't done any planing at all before that. At the time I asked a shipwright about the shaping of a garboard plank, & he said that in a full keel boat the maximum width of the plank would usually be used at the stern end, then tapered to the bow, the amount of taper depending on the hull shape. That seems to be what you have done. best of luck with the rest
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many thanks, John Patrick & Pete, plus the visitors The sampson post has been trimmed the cockpit area horn cleats were made & installed, the rivets were replicated with small brass nails, & I made some washers from brass rod & drilled the centre out; the cockpit coaming ones are maybe on a bit too much of an angle the rudder & tiller are underway, roughed up, & shaped as below thanks, MP
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Hi Michael - what's the technique fro drilling acrylic sheet without cracking it? Mark
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