Rick01

Hi LS 
That little extra you've just done with the anchors is just great. Good work. 
He told you !!😋😅

Hi all,
Thanks Rick for such great info/encouragement on my Anchor problem, thanks Tony for that great recommendation and thanks Dirk for shaming me into action. 😂
Here is where l am at now.
I drilled the four holes in each of the Catheads for the pulleys, l also attached an eyelet to each. Rigged with a double block and hook and attached to the anchor. 

once l was happy l had rigged each anchor correctly, l lowered each for the fitting of the anchor buoys. 

My last task of the session was to re hang each of the anchors in what will be their final positions (approximately) Once again, l shall wait until l am happy before tying off.

Tomorrow l shall lash them down, adjust where necessary and tie down their rigging. I shall also make and tie up the anchor  buoys. 
Best wishes as always, 
The Lazy Saint. 
 

But that's what this forum is for. If something is unclear just ask, we all do it even the experts at times. Basically you just need 4 holes drilled at the tip of the arm then rigged through those holes and a block with a hook attached like this.

It'll make all the difference if you can manage it.
 
Rick

But that's what this forum is for. If something is unclear just ask, we all do it even the experts at times. Basically you just need 4 holes drilled at the tip of the arm then rigged through those holes and a block with a hook attached like this.

It'll make all the difference if you can manage it.
 
Rick

But that's what this forum is for. If something is unclear just ask, we all do it even the experts at times. Basically you just need 4 holes drilled at the tip of the arm then rigged through those holes and a block with a hook attached like this.

It'll make all the difference if you can manage it.
 
Rick

But that's what this forum is for. If something is unclear just ask, we all do it even the experts at times. Basically you just need 4 holes drilled at the tip of the arm then rigged through those holes and a block with a hook attached like this.

It'll make all the difference if you can manage it.
 
Rick

My recommendation of the book Rigging Period Fore-And-Aft Craft by Lennarth Petersson seems to have stirred up a bit of controversy over its net worth as a reference.  From some of the reactions, I feel that I need to offer some defense of my recommendation. 
    Some of us, me included, find it and its companion book, Rigging Period Ship Models, to be useful additions to our maritime libraries.  Others seem to think that the books are just rip-offs of some sort.  I’d like to let everyone else here decide the merits of the books for themselves.  Here is some food for thought.
    If one would just read the introductions of these books by the author you would find that he is not saying that his book should be taken as some kind of gospel on rigging, but rather a review of the rigging on some actual models that were built in the same time period that the ships being modeled existed.  Some restorations may have been done incorrectly or the original model may even have been done in error to start with,  but then again, correcting errors was not the stated purpose of his books.
     In any case, right or wrong, the illustrations he made were done to show the way the rigging was done on the MODEL, not necessarily the actual SHIP.  After all, if you were like the author, who admittedly was just an amateur modeler himself, would you have the presumption to second guess the modelers details found in a respected museum made by knowledgeable people with first hand information that you could never have?  I would think that the very fact that they were in a museum would lead me to believe that they must have had some measure of accuracy and quality to be there in the first place.
    And one more thought here, as far as historical accuracy goes, who would know beter how it actually was on that particular ship anyway,……a model builder from the same era of the ship, or someone else critiquing that model centuries removed? 
     Here are some actual excerpts I have taken from the introduction on page 1 of Rigging Period Ship Models by Lennarth Petersson:
 
…..”I felt it important, both for the sake of accuracy and for the benefit of modelers, to draw from a contemporary model, and I decided on an English frigate which should have retained most of its original rigging.  By going to a three dimensional source I hoped to be able to depict the intricate details in the clearest possible manner, and by choosing a contemporary model create a scheme which was authentic.  With the help of my publisher I found a suitable model, with much of its original rigging intact, in the Bristol Industrial Museum.  It is a beautiful model of the Melampus, a 36-gun, 18-pounder frigate.  It was donated to the museum in 1844 and while it has received the attention of restorers over the years its rigging is considered a reliable representation.  I photographed and sketched the model from every angle and the results of the exercise were the source for the drawings in this book”.
    “She is one of four models of ships which were built by the Bristol yard of James Martin Millhouse and is assumed to have been commissioned by the builders.”
     “I hope this book will make the task of rigging easier for modelmakers at all levels.  Certainly, researching and drawing out the illustrations answered a lot of questions for me.  There are other works which any modelmaker needs to refer to and which have been stalwart guides for me.  Foremost are James Lee’s The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625-1860, and C N Longridge’s The Anatomy of Nelson’s Ships.  Any modeler's book shelf also requires The Ashley Book of Knots.
    Finally, the journal Seaways and The Nautical Research Journal, from Nautical Research Guild in the US, have been useful guides for me.”
 
     As you can see above, he has even suggested some sources to refer to for more clarification on the details.  (Notice that he has even listed The Nautical Research Journal there.)
    And here are a couple more excerpts I have taken from the introduction on pages 7 and 8 of Rigging Fore-And-Aft Craft by Lennarth Petersson:
 
…”the more I became familiar with the ships, the more I have realized the limits of my own knowledge.  I have, as in the previous book, attempted to describe and illustrate no more than the rigs of these vessels.  Readers wanting more information on the design, construction and careers of these sorts of craft will need to look elsewhere.”
     “The book is not intended to be an academic contribution to the field of maritime historical research; as a visual study based solely on three models it is rather intended as an accessible guide for the enthusiast and model shipwright.  These contemporary models were all made by people well acquainted with the vessels of the period, and so they can be seen as representing some of the best evidence of the way these craft were rigged.”
 
    I think that in the first line of the last excerpt he has stated his purpose of writing these books quite clearly.  Some of us may still feel that he did not, but that is an opinion which is something that we are all entitled to have.  
   As I said, we each have our own opinions on the mater, but mine is that one should not really expect this book (that is freely admitted by the author in the introductions to be merely illustrating a specific models’ details) to be some kind of technical manual of proper rigging methods. The author has again provided his readers with other sources to do just that with.
 
    I hate to say this, but isn’t that what you are doing concerning the efforts of the model builders work that is described by the author, not to mention the authors efforts to illustrate them?  I personally feel that there is too much destructive criticism here (and apparently previously back in 2017) about the models and the books illustrating them.  While you have shown that there were certainly errors shown in the book, (what book doesn't have them?) there must be be some redeeming qualities in it since you seem to have a copy yourself that you continue referring to. 
     Might I suggest that rather than just pointing out what you feel to be incorrect details in the book, could you show us the correct method to clarify the way you think it should have been shown?  I think constructive criticism on the subject would be of much more use to the rest of us.   
    I apologize if I have stepped on some toes here, but as I think I have shown in this post here, my opinion (for what it's worth) is that as the books in question here were never intended to be technical manuals don't try using them as such. 
                                                     

I based my own rigging of the Sherbourne on Petersson's book, and found it very helpful. However, I did augment it with more precise details from Steel, Marquardt and others. The original plans in the NMM came with no rigging plan, so it really is up to you how you rig it, within the various options that these different authors and paintings portray. Not only were there many different approaches to the rigging of a cutter at the time, in terms of number of yards, positioning of the topmast, and belaying plans but every shipyard had its own way of doing things, and captains would often change the rigging to suit their own requirements. Finally, I do recommend that you go with the sail plan, and therefore the rigging plan, that pleases you most -- especially if you plan to show the model with sails.
 
It should be noted that the kit differs from the original plans in some details, notably the windlass, so you also have to decide whether you want to attempt to go for some original recreation (which to my mind is impossible) or whether you see this as a generic reconstruction of what these lovely ships used to be.
 
There's a huge amount of discussion on most of these aspects on this site, either in detailed build logs or in discussions of each of the different details.
 
You are doing a really nice job so far, and whatever you decide, it's going to end up as something deeply satisfying to you and to those around you.
 
Tony

Hi all,
I have managed to change the Anchor Cable. I hope now l am pulling and not pushing.
Thanks for your help Rick. 
Best wishes as always, 
The Lazy Saint. 

Hi Rick,
Thanks very much for the pointer, l never even considered that, l just wrapped it around. Fortunately l haven't fitted it yet so on my next session l will put it on the correct way. Ha ha.
Best wishes as always, 
The Lazy Saint. 

Carronades now fitted to carriages and installed. Purchased from Cornwall Model Boats https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=carronade&PN=RB-Model-Fittings-Carronade-20mm-RB01123.html#SID=1251 . They had to be amended slightly as the extension on the rear of the barrel just didn't seem right. So this was removed reducing the overall length to 20mm after re-fitting the button, much nearer the 17mm I was hoping for. 
 
 
 

Rick,
 
The carronades look sharp. I'm consumed with the chaos of a bathroom remodel at the moment but hope to be back in the game with the boat in a couple of weeks. Stay tuned!
 
James

I used square mini files or jeweller's files for the small square ports. They come very cheaply in sets of six or so on eBay, Amazon etc. You can also make your own square punches for smaller squares (e.g. on the windlass) by squaring off nails. Then there's the option of making your own mini-chisels 1mm or so in size using allen keys and suchlike. There's lots of advice on the web on how to do this.
 
Tony

Carronades now fitted to carriages and installed. Purchased from Cornwall Model Boats https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=carronade&PN=RB-Model-Fittings-Carronade-20mm-RB01123.html#SID=1251 . They had to be amended slightly as the extension on the rear of the barrel just didn't seem right. So this was removed reducing the overall length to 20mm after re-fitting the button, much nearer the 17mm I was hoping for. 
 
 
 

Carronades now fitted to carriages and installed. Purchased from Cornwall Model Boats https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=carronade&PN=RB-Model-Fittings-Carronade-20mm-RB01123.html#SID=1251 . They had to be amended slightly as the extension on the rear of the barrel just didn't seem right. So this was removed reducing the overall length to 20mm after re-fitting the button, much nearer the 17mm I was hoping for. 
 
 
 

Carronades now fitted to carriages and installed. Purchased from Cornwall Model Boats https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=carronade&PN=RB-Model-Fittings-Carronade-20mm-RB01123.html#SID=1251 . They had to be amended slightly as the extension on the rear of the barrel just didn't seem right. So this was removed reducing the overall length to 20mm after re-fitting the button, much nearer the 17mm I was hoping for. 
 
 
 

Hi, 
I'm no expert on the rigging of sailing ships ( War or Merchant )  and what I've read about the USS United States and USS Constitution , they may have been sister's but the rig of both ships where different due to the ship's captain's so having a book or books saying " This is how it was done "  isn't giving the modeller the right signals to make a good job of his or her project.  As someone has already pointed out it will give a in- sight into the workings of a ships rigging of what rope does what to the beginner . I know I'm going to get some "Flak" over this but isn't this the idea of this forum to enlighten people in a nice way.
Niallmhor

I skipped them deliberately and have been waiting for someone to mention them. I didn't like them from the start, noted that no provision was made for them on the cutaway sketch so queried it on this forum. I was told (can't remember who) that it was quite possible that they in fact had pumps that could be taken down/rigged only when needed. Given that King took the time to show the binnacle which is not a fixture, the ship's boat and the beam in the crews' quarters that is the main support for the windlass I felt that omitting any pumps was a fair assumption. As you say it is crowded although there is space either before the binnacle or just aft of the main hold, but only this spot would allow a pump a straight line access to the deepest part of the holds.
If you do go with them I'd guess around 12~15 mm would work as a reasonable size.
Glass - I scrounged some 2 mm glass from a local glazier but went for white card under. Still gives the impression of a void but (to me) isn't quite so "in your face". 🙂 

Hi James - I've remodelled my decking layout up at the bows having spent a little more time studying the cut-away sketch.
 

Complete re-build of the windlass as the cut-away seems to show it having it's "support" as a beam dropping down through the crew quarters and a number of period windlass' have the extra belaying pins mounted as I have. In addition I reversed the sliding hatch cover for the crew access as it didn't seem to work the way it was originally. I also had to move both the cat-head and bowsprit stays so that the anchors could in fact be hoist properly (unlike the model plans). Waiting on stuff from Cornwall Model Boats to finish the carronades and one or two other items towards the stern. Apologies if I have hijacked your thread but I thought this may save you some head scratching down the line. 😞
 
Rick 

Hi James - I've remodelled my decking layout up at the bows having spent a little more time studying the cut-away sketch.
 

Complete re-build of the windlass as the cut-away seems to show it having it's "support" as a beam dropping down through the crew quarters and a number of period windlass' have the extra belaying pins mounted as I have. In addition I reversed the sliding hatch cover for the crew access as it didn't seem to work the way it was originally. I also had to move both the cat-head and bowsprit stays so that the anchors could in fact be hoist properly (unlike the model plans). Waiting on stuff from Cornwall Model Boats to finish the carronades and one or two other items towards the stern. Apologies if I have hijacked your thread but I thought this may save you some head scratching down the line. 😞
 
Rick 

Here's the modified companionway. Lowered and flattened as per the sketches.
 

... and dropped in to place but not yet glued. I may have some more work to do here when I've clarified how a flying gaff is rigged, possibly more cleats for rigging.
 

 
Rick

Can't go past "Float-a-boat" for help and supplies. I use them quite frequently but, depending on how urgent my need is, I also use https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/index.html stock there is brilliant, prices great (ex-20% GST) UK postal rates cheap and delivery is fast. Yesterday I ordered 2 x 20mm carronade barrels plus a packet of 10mm wooden cleats from them at a total cost including postage of  $10.00. This is what the barrels alone would have cost over here before I paid petrol or postage and I'm only 25 km from Float-a-boat.
 
Rick

Can't go past "Float-a-boat" for help and supplies. I use them quite frequently but, depending on how urgent my need is, I also use https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/index.html stock there is brilliant, prices great (ex-20% GST) UK postal rates cheap and delivery is fast. Yesterday I ordered 2 x 20mm carronade barrels plus a packet of 10mm wooden cleats from them at a total cost including postage of  $10.00. This is what the barrels alone would have cost over here before I paid petrol or postage and I'm only 25 km from Float-a-boat.
 
Rick

Thanks - that confirms pretty much how I thought it would all run.
 
Rick

Can't go past "Float-a-boat" for help and supplies. I use them quite frequently but, depending on how urgent my need is, I also use https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/index.html stock there is brilliant, prices great (ex-20% GST) UK postal rates cheap and delivery is fast. Yesterday I ordered 2 x 20mm carronade barrels plus a packet of 10mm wooden cleats from them at a total cost including postage of  $10.00. This is what the barrels alone would have cost over here before I paid petrol or postage and I'm only 25 km from Float-a-boat.
 
Rick