davec

I'm going to have the chance to expand and do some improvements in my workshop. I'm currently in a unfinished basement room, and have the chance to expand into the unused part of the garage next to it, frame the walls and add some insulation, and put in more electrical outlets, a ceiling and better lights. I'm looking on advice for floor material. I currently have the unfinished concrete slab, and would like to put a floor in. Biggest issue is that there is a narrow space all the way around where the slab meets the foundation, which is a magnet for small parts that fall of the bench. I'm looking for a few things: 1) Ease of keeping clean 2) Stain resistant 3) durable - unlikely to scratch when I rearrange my tools 4) color where it is easy to find parts that have dropped Any suggestions? Contractors have suggested laminate and epoxy. I'm not familiar with epoxy coating on floors. thanks! Dave

Underside planked. I used holly. Finish is minwax polycrylic satin, which is water based and doesn't seem to change the color of the wood. It says on the can that it is good for light colored wood. I started using it 13-14 years ago, and the holly on those models has not changed color. It does seem like the can has a shelf life. When I reopened my old can and tried it on scrap, it did darken the wood a little. It was probably about 15 years old. I bought a new can which worked fine. I don't think I am going to treenail the holly. I will treenail the boxwood, but not until the upper hull is planked, Plan is to do the upper hull, at least to the level of the shear strake, then start installing all the inside parts that I was working on.

I decided to plank boxwood down to the waterline and holly below. The top of the waterline is pretty close to the bottom of the wales. I used a taper jig to taper strips of boxwood and holly, and glued them together into a single plank 10" scale in width. I need to rip out the plank below this one that tapers from 3 1/2" to 3" thick, then can begin planking. I think I am going to take the approach that the whitestuff would cover the treenails and not spend a week treenailing under the waterline. I will probably treenail the boxwood below and above the wales. Dave

Toni, Greg, and Mike - Many thanks for the tip about the model airplane dope. I used it when I lived in a small apartment 25 years ago and was trying stick and paper airplanes - it was the only kind of project I had enough room for. I learned my lesson about Holly when I was working on the Rattlesnake. I spent a lot of time making a black and white parquet floor for the captain's cabin out of ebony and holly, then finished it with minwax wipe-on poly and had a yellow and white floor - very disappointing. I experimented with a bunch of clear coats (haven't tried dope) and found that the minwax water based poly works really well. It puts a nice surface coat on without soaking in and changing the wood color. The holly deck in the Hannah picture above was finished with the water based poly about 6 years ago, and I have the deck and whitestuff on the Rattlesnake from about 10 years ago also with the original white color unchanged. The tin I have of it is 10 years old and probably no good anymore so I will need to decide whether to switch to dope or get a new container of the poly. It is a good alternative for people who like water cleanups. thanks! Dave

Wales added. I put up two pictures, one with flash, one without. The one with flash makes it easier to see the anchor stock shape, and the one without gives a better sense of what it looks like under natural light. The wood is ebony and treenails are cherry. It has been sanded and has a single coat of minwax wipe-on poly. I'm OK with the contrast between the ebony and cherry. The treenails are deliberately a little undersized. Steel says 1 1/4", but they are more like 1.1". I think they end up looking bigger than they actually are, and when I go full size it looks (to me) too speckled and distracting. I'm going to work on the planking below the wales next. I plan to use holly where the "white stuff" would be. My understanding is that it was used below the waterline, although there are a few posts scattered throughout the site saying it was OK to use below the wales. (It is hard to search on the site - searching for "white stuff" mostly brings up posts about snow). The waterline is not that far below the wale for this part of the ship. I think I will mark out the waterline, plank with box down to it, and holly below. It will probably have one split plank that it part holly and part box, but I did this on Rattlesnake and it worked OK. If whitestuff to the wale is historically accurate, it would be easier - any thoughts? Thanks! Dave

Hi Kevin - Tremendous progress. Looks great in the pictures, and was even more impressive to see for real at the club meeting yesterday. Dave

This is what cherry looks like contrasted against the ebony on my last ship. I like the contrast with the ebony. I wouldn't use cherry on boxwood again- not quite the pox effect Druxey was talking about, but still too prominent. After the last model I got a Byrnes drawplate and can get the diameter down significantly smaller. So far on the cross section I have been using boxwood on boxwood, and around a scale 1", which I'm a lot happier with. There are some pictures on the prior page.

Hi Druxey - Definitely want to avoid the pox appearance, so in general I treenail with the same wood as the plank, and go slightly undersize if possible. Question is what to do for treenailing the ebony wales? To use the same wood, I would have to use ebony, which isn't feasible. I want something dark, and don't want to have to use dye or paint. I'm thinking cherry against the ebony - I used it on Hannah and the Rattlesnake, and although there was a lot more contrast than using same wood treenails, it wasn't too much. thanks! Dave

Hi Allan- The picture was from my first build, before I knew that the shroud was supposed to cross above the deadeye. It does work for properly rigged shrouds, but I didn't take any pictures when I used it on my last two builds. I don’t make any attempt to finish the lashings on the jig. The mast isn’t fixed in place at this point, and I try to do most of my rigging off the model. I mostly use the jig to determine the right lengths, and usually just put a simple lashing where the shroud crosses to mark the right place. I take the mast off the model to put the final lashings on. Much easier to do on the bench top than with the deadeye dangling in midair. It would probably be easier with less jig above the deadeye. Dave

The stays are all at different angles, so the distance between deadeyes actually varies slightly. It may be something you can deal with by sizing them all the same and using different tightness on the lanyards. I use a little different jig which accounts for the difference.

I started deviating from the instructions a little. I think it will be easier to work on the external planking with the model not mounted so I can rotate it as I plank and treenail. This should be much easier to do without any of the internal parts fitted. I’m leaving the starboard side unplanked, and have trimmed the tops of the frames and removed the temporary spacers. The finish is minwax matte wipe on poly. I’m beginning to understand why so many people just use sanding sealer. I like the way the poly finish brings out the boxwood color, but it also makes obvious areas where I didn’t notice that I had gotten glue. I installed 4 ribbands parallel to the lines of the futtock joints. I followed E&T’s suggestions for brass blackening for the nails (http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6977-the-blacken-it-trials/page-1) and got much better results than my usual. The only thing I didn’t do is use de-ionized water- I couldn't find it locally and need to order some. I made my own nail pusher to get all the nails to sit the same ¾” proud of the ribband. The end of the brass rod has a 1/32” hole drilled ¾” scale deep. I started work on the port side, which I plan to fully plank. I’m taking a break after cleaning up all the ebony dust. I tried making the anchor stock wales hook and butt as per the instructions, but this was really hard to do in ebony. I was looking at Maury’s log and Greg’s model, and saw that they both used top and butt, then saw that in TFFM it says that this was the usual on 6th rates- much easier to make. I used 76” as the distance between the edge and the widest part, slightly different than Maury or Greg, but it seems to work to put the pumpdale scupper at one butt, and the next butt centered on a frame. I love the look of finished ebony way more than dyed or painted wood. It has a bad reputation for being hard to work (nothing a Byrnes saw can’t fix) and irritating dust, which just takes a filter mask and a few extra minutes with a shop vac. I usually treenail in the same wood as the planks – I think the end grain gives just enough contrast that the treenails are visible without making them too obvious. Has anyone made treenails out of ebony? The way the wood splits, it would probably be a nightmare. I will probably not try, and use cherry instead. I did this on the wales on Hannah, and it looked OK. I will mask like crazy when it is time to sand the installed wales so the ebony dust doesn’t stain the boxwood. Plan is to plank with holly below the waterline and boxwood above. Best wishes for the New Year. Dave

Frank - many thanks - this is really helpful - 1/16 in a few minutes is what I am looking for. Preac takes around 10-20'. The two grits sounds like a nice feature, although I have been doing OK without it. Dupree - agreed that Jim Byrnes makes awesome tools, but so did Charlie Files at Preac. Big thing I am sorting out is whether it is worth the $ to upgrade a tool that works mostly adequately. My wife is talking about getting back into her doll houses, which will up the amount of milling I need to do, and sounds like I can justify the new machine. I like milling the wood, but time spent passing pieces of wood through the sander is time not spent actually building the model. Just saw that the Byrnes website is closed to new orders until January 1. Will probably go ahead and order when they reopen, and will post the difference between the two machines in case I'm not the only one still using an old Preac machine. Happy holidays! Dave

Hi Denis and Brian - Many thanks for your responses. No question about the quality of the Byrnes tools. I have the tablesaw, disc sander, and ropewalk, and are extremely happy with them. The Preac tools are also great. I'd been thinking that I would upgrade when the Preac sander ran into problems as they are no longer made, but my table saw and sander are looking like they will last forever. What I'm trying to sort out is whether the bigger motor on the Byrnes thickness sander is worth the expense given that I already have a functional Preac. When you use your Byrnes sander, can you remove a moderate amount of wood in a single easy pass? I cut my billets on a 10" table saw, which isn't particularly precise, and I go a little bit on the thick side in case it leaves deep saw marks. This can make the final thickness sanding require a lot of passes (I'm guessing at these numbers but probably around ~.005-.01" per pass going quickly or .01-.02" going really slowly for 3" wide boxwood). Can the Byrnes take off more in a single pass without binding? I've been advised that trying to retrofit the Preac with a bigger motor would not be a good solution. I'd really like to be able to take off .02-.03" in a single pass until I'm close to final dimension, then able to go slowly and more precisely until final size. I also know there is the microlux planer as an option, but I've been happy thickness sanding, and the planer is a lot more expensive than the Byrnes thickness sander. thanks! Dave

I mill my own wood and have been using a Preac thickness sander for 10-12 years. I have been happy with it, but keep looking at the Byrnes. Main difference is that the Preac has a 1/8 hp motor and can only remove a little from a 2.5-3" wide boxwood billet on a single pass without binding (does a little better with woods that aren't quite as hard). Not a big deal when I am only sanding one or two pieces of wood, but it turns sanding more than that into an afternoon project in itself. The Byrnes has a 1/3 hp motor. Will the bigger motor make an appreciable difference when sanding compared to the Preac? thanks! Dave

Chris - Congratulations on your new shop. I have most of the same tools, and have been using a shop vac for my dust collection for the last 6 years. My workshop is a little smaller than yours, and I also have a table and band saw. I like the vacuum because of the flexibility it gives me. I have limited bench space, so I end up swapping tools on the bench, and also store the table and band saw against the wall and move them when I need to use them. The beauty of the shop vac is that no matter how I have the workshop temporarily configured, I just move the vacuum and hose and connect them to whatever tool I am using, no matter where I set it up. The only down side is that the thickness sander clogs the filter in the shop vac somewhat quickly. It isn't that big a deal, but I generally need to take the vacuum outside and clean the filter after about 2 hours of thickness sanding. 2 hours is a lot of thickness sanding, so I don't need to clean it that often. Dave

I had to redo some of the upper deck beams because I cut the notches for the carlings in the wrong places. It took a fair amount of time, but I didn't post anything because nothing looked different. The upper deck beams and beam arms are now complete. I spent some down time over the holidays working on the main brace bitt pins. I roughed out the shape by scoring each beam on the table saw with a .018" blade set to the depth of where I needed to carve the shape to. This gave me something to aim for, and worked better than marking the wood with pencil,.When I marking with pencil, it worked great on the first two sides, but the marks got shaved away on the other two sides. I carved the shape of the decorative portion with a chisel, then cut the 45 degree bevels. Once I figured out the relationships between the beams and bitt pins on the model, I cut the slots for the upper deck and bitt crossbeam. For the sheave in the bitt pin, I drilled two holes and shaped the sheave with an escarpment file as described in the instructions. I made sheaves for the cheek blocks - I wanted to try it both ways. Hopefully the difference won't be too noticeable. I turned the sheaves on the lathe. I turned a 7.5" boxwood dowel, and end-drilled the hole as deep into the dowel as I could with the bit. I grooved the dowel with a round file on the lathe. It took a little practice to get the grooves looking the same. I cut to one side of the groove by eye on the table saw, then used the stop on the fence to cut them to uniform 1.75" thickness. I ended up making the cheek blocks in two pieces. It was easier for me to cut the decorative molding on a separate piece of stripwood, and groove the main block on the table saw. Now that I have the technique down, I expect the jeer bitts will go pretty quickly. Once I notch the lower deck beams for the carlings, I can glue in the well, mast step, and lower deck, at which point it should look like there has been some progress.

John - many thanks for posting the picture. I have space for this. I really like the use of the non-slip cabinet liner. I have been using a stone holder that came with one of my stones. I've accumulated stones of different sizes, so switching stones takes a readjustment to the holder - another step that slows me down unnecessarily. Agree re the guides- I use the Mark II veritas guide, which works really well for me, and a diamond stone for flattening the other stones. I was worried about the stones getting mildew in the damp. The bleach sounds like a good idea. Dave

Hi John - I use the same two guides and agree that they work really well. I also use a Grobet graving sharpener for smaller chisels that the Kell doesn't hold well. Any chance of your posting a picture of your sharpening station? It sounds like it is what I am looking for. thanks! Dave

Many thanks for all your responses. I apologize for my slow response, but ended up working overnight on Tuesday and going to sleep early yesterday. Pat- My workshop is a room off the garage. I probably need to set something up for sharpening in the garage. I have some room, and wouldn't have to worry about getting my model wet. Grsfax - I need to get better at sharpening free hand. I used to sharpen without a guide, but have been getting much better results with one. It might have been I just needed more practice. Would definitely save me some time if I didn't need it. Bob - I mostly use Japanese water stones, and like them. I use a coarse diamond stone to keep the water stones flat. Toni and Jud -I can probably get away with taking a plastic container from the kitchen, but will have to sharpen all the kitchen knives in return. I go through mass sharpening just before Thanksgiving every year. Makes the turkey carving go really well. Dave

Kurt - I strop like crazy. I have a good leather strop and stropping compound. After cutting enough notches in deck beams the edge needs refreshing despite the stropping. Grsfax - I could use a single grit for my bigger chisels. I have an alignment guide that holds them at the same angle for sharpening all the time. For my little chisels, which I use a lot more, my alignment guides aren't as precise, so generally start with a rougher grit and work up. I used to free hand them, but have been getting a lot better edge with some guides. Mumin - I've thought about this, but the soaking doesn't seem to be my limiting step. I throw the stones in a bucket of water first. Once I've moved everything that would get damaged if it got wet, cleared some bench space, and gotten the chisel in the alignment guide, they have soaked long enough. I need something that helps with the whole process. Just wondering what other people do. Lots of people on the site seem to maintain sharp small instruments despite having limited workshop space. thanks!

I find that I don't sharpen my chisels often enough because it is a pain to clear off workbench space, pull the sharpening stones and alignment guides out of the drawer, soak the stones, then clean up the water afterwards. I tend to wait until I need to sharpen a bunch of blades and end up working with a slightly dull instrument if it is the only one that needs sharpening. Do any of you have suggestions for some way of making this easier? Any solutions for some sort of limited space sharpening station? thanks! Dave

Congratulations Druxey - Just ordered my copy. I couldn't wait until Christmas. Looking forward to seeing you at the workshop in November. Dave

I've been working on the deck beams. The lower deck beams have no curve and were easy. The upper deck beams were more of a challenge. As suggested in the practicum, using a sanding block cut to the shape of the inside curve was really helpful. For the outer curve I used a regular sanding block and digital caliper to get to the right thickness. The beam arms were fun. All of the joints so far were done with a table saw. The pieces haven't been sanded yet, which should explain some of the discoloration on the wood. Everything is just laid in place for the pictures. I can lay a straight edge across the beams and beam arms without high or low spots. I've started cutting the notches for the carlings. This is something I had a big problem with on my prior models. I spent a while on some scrap wood, and discovered my problem was pretty basic - my chisels weren't sharp enough. I was doing pretty well with my large chisels with a sharpening jig, but was sharpening my smaller chisels by hand. This wasn't getting them anywhere near sharp enough, and I was getting a lot of tear out and cracking the wood. I got a honing guide that fit my medium sized chisels, and a grobet roller graver sharpener that holds my dockyard microchisels, and all of a sudden was getting much better results. It took me about 90 minutes to make the first two notches (no picture yet) but they came out OK. I made some templates to help mark them out so they all look uniform. We drop my daughter back at college tomorrow and have an empty nest again, so hopefully slow progress will continue. Dave

Greg and Druxey - many thanks! I'm working on the 'steady' part. The ventilation holes were fun. I don't get to spend much time in the workshop, but get to spend a fair amount of time out of it planning what I will do when I finally get there, so I had plenty of time to map out the pattern. Well and shot locker almost done. I will add the very top strip when the lower deck beams are installed, and I have some great photo etch hinges to add. They were the subject of a workshop on photo etching done by one of the extremely gifted Hampton Roads Model Ship Society members (thanks Gene!). I've begun work on the main deck beams. Dave

Time for a semi-annual update. First post since January other than my pleas not to archive the group build log. Work continues slowly as a bunch of other commitments continue take priority over shop time. I have the inner hull done to the level of the upper deck clamps, and have begun work on the well. Mast step is also done, as well as the limber boards and lower deck beams. I haven’t put any finish on – I used some mineral spirits to clean off the sawdust. I’m continuing to work on the well. I began gluing the sides on right before leaving on vacation, but didn’t take a picture. Dave