davec

Cliff - your wood looks great! I'm looking forward to your Echo cross section build. It will be great to not be the only one. I milled my own wood for the cross section, too. Even though the framing and fitting out kits were available, I figured I had bought the table saw, thickness sander, and band saw, so was obliged to use them. David and Greg were very helpful and let me buy the plans and a cannon barrel separately from the wood. I haven't had any problems with pear, holly, or boxwood billets warping, although my wood has sat on the shelf for a few years prior to being cut. The big problem as been when I cut the billets into strips. Not a big deal for planks, but some of the strips cut for spars and masts for Hannah looked like modern art. The beauty of having the tools is not having to mill everything at once. There are tons of different sizes woods after you finish the framing. Best wishes and happy modelling for the new year. Dave

Michael - Not sure how I missed this - Halifax came out beautifully. Case looks great, too. I finished Hannah with rigging a few years ago. Harold Hahn's plans were amazing. I think we have all gotten so used to the incredible things that can be done with CAD that we forget how well someone could do with old fashioned pen and ink. The schooners are truly beautiful. Hope you had a great Christmas. Best wishes and happy modelling for the coming new year. Dave

Hi Greg - many thanks. My understanding is that the pumps were installed during the fitting out, after the frames and decks were in place. The well is in the contract, so it also must have been built before the pumps were installed. Some ships probably got converted from the older type pump shafts (bored logs) to the Cole type shafts, which were bigger. I wonder if this happened to 1780's shipwrights? Your picture was really helpful. Plan is to make the upper deck partners, which will set where the pump shafts should be, move the carling to the right place, then make the lower deck partner. It may leave me with extra notches in the beam on the nonplanked side, which I will patch as best I can. It looks like the carling fits into the space between the two shafts. I can figure out the path of the brake pump at the same time. How did the Cole pump shaft work? My understanding is that they were built of planks, as one of the big advantages was a plank could be removed to access the mechanism and fix the chain or clear problems. The saucers that lifted the water were still circular. Did they just have large leather gaskets that made good seals between the round washer and square cross section? It wouldn't matter on the down tube, but on the up tube they would have needed a good seal. thanks! Dave

I’ve had some workshop time over the holidays. Lower deck framing is now in place. I had put it in place about two weeks ago, then when it was time to put the waterway in place, found that despite test fitting multiple times, the middle beam was higher than the others on the side I was planning on planking. Not sure what happened, but it is fixed now. I had made a lot of pieces over the summer, and it is nice to have them installed. I added the waterway and last part of the lower deck inner hull planking. I’ve been puzzling out next steps, particularly the course of the outer pump tube. It looks like the well size is from the contract, and inner carling placement per standard practice. I think I took the carling location right from the drawing, but I may be off a little. There are only two completed cross sections here, and it looks like Maury and Greg might have run into similar issues. The tube is 11” square, but the space between the carling and well wall is only 8-9”. Maury solved this by having the shaft pass through the well wall, and it is hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like Greg may have ended the shaft at the deck level. I’m only going to install the pump on one side, and trying to sort out what to do. The inside of the well won’t be visible once the mast partners are in place, so I may end the pump shaft at the deck. I could move the carlings in, but it would require either having visible patched notches on the beams, or redoing two beams. Not sure what the original builders would have done: wider well, moved the carling in towards the center, notched the carling, or had the shaft pass through the top part of the well wall. Plan is to do a full Echo someday, and will need to solve it then. After the first forward progress in months, I'm not really up for a major redo for something that won't be visible. Hope to make the hatch coaming, mast partners, and plank the deck prior to heading back to work. Hope everyone is having great holidays. Dave

Hi Cliff - looks awesome. It will be helpful aligning frames (even though there are only 12 of them) and doing internal measurements for the deck clamps. I'm impressed with your craftsmanship - can't wait to see the model. Dave

Few cautions with surgical blades. They are extremely sharp, and were designed for operating on flesh, not cutting wood. They are brittle and break much more easily when forced than exacto type blades. Be gentle with them. Also, be very careful when changing the blades in the scalpel handle. The attachment is different than a hobby knife holder, and takes some getting used to. Would strongly suggest getting a hemostat or other small surgical clamp to use when changing blades so you don't cut yourself. There are some blade removal tools, but I haven't tried them. I use #10, #11, and #15 blades. Rather than swapping out blades when I need a different shape like I used to do with my old exacto knives, I got a couple of handles - you can get them for $3-4 each, much less than needing sutures. Dave

It has been a very good break, where I have started to install the pieces I have been chipping away at for the past few months. I had hoped to be further along, but my experiments with blackening in place with liver of sulfur took longer than planned. I also had a fair amount of treenailing to do on inner planks that I had already installed. I'm hoping to have the lower deck framed within the next few weeks. I have the rest of the knees and beams already made and ready to install.

Not sure if it was the best way, but I think it will look OK. I installed the thick stuff plank over the floor head on the unplanked side. I could have used the same shape on both sides and attached the knee to the thick stuff and lower deck clamp. I think it would have looked funny to have a gap between the frame and knee where the foot-waling planks were left off.

Had a really nice weekend with some quality time in the workshop. Finished making the knees for the lower deck, as well as a bunch of boxwood and pear treenails to finish treenailing the inner planking. It was a first attempt at pulling pear through the drawplate, and it went well. no problem getting it down to #21. I'm working overnight, and it looks like my liver of sulfur will be waiting for me when I get home. The beams in the picture have already had finish applied, which is why they are a different color from the knees. One side of my cross section has inner planking and the other doesn't. I made the knees on the unplanked side butt up against the frames, which is why the left and right hanging knees appear different shapes along the outer surfaces. The opposite side is bolted to the inner planking. Hope I have this right. Making the templates was interesting. Switching from paper to Bristol board as suggested by David and Greg at the workshop was tremendously helpful. Dave

Michael - many thanks! Got my batteries recharged at the NRG meeting and workshop, finished my travelling, and got back into the workshop yesterday. Made the hanging knees , and put the notches in the lodging knees. Hoping to get some pictures up later today, but after no visible progress for months, will hopefully get the lower deck framing in place soon. Only hold up was that I was planning on trying to blacken the bolts in place. I usually use brass, but was going to try copper wire and liver of sulfur. The copper wire I ordered last week is here, but the liver of sulfur appears to have gotten lost in the mail. Will need to reorder. Dave

Greg and David- Order already placed. I am very grateful for all the two for your important contributions to the hobby. While I am disappointed that you are closing admiralty models, I am very happy that you plan to continue your tremendous workshops. I have learned a huge amount from them, highly recommend them, and plan to attend future ones. I thought the one earlier this week was awesome. I do plan a full Echo build - just need to get the cross section done first. At three years for an ~6" cross section, how long should the whole build take? Thanks! Dave

Mark - welcome back! I enjoyed following your build before, and am looking forward to seeing it progress. Best, Dave

Doc - Many thanks! I'm getting back to work on the cross section. My rhythm got thrown off by the workshop expansion, then I got down to the wire on the deadline for a book I was editing (sorry - work related - nothing to do with model ships). I have everything set up in the new space. Manuscript went off to the copy editor last week, and I got into the workshop the last two weekends. I made the quarterdeck breast beam, then realized I need to change my building strategy. I have the internal and external planking done up to the quarterdeck deck clamp. I was originally going to finish the planking and rails before installing the decks and fixtures. I think the interrelationship between parts are significant enough that it is time to go back and start installing the decks. I finished the hinges for the shot locker yesterday. A friend from the club had helped me photo etch them last year. I had played with my resistance soldering unit when I made the eyebolts for the breast beam, and was finally comfortable enough that I could try to solder on the hinge pins without ruining the photo etched pieces. It went really well. I painted and glued them on. Will post some pictures soon. Dave

Cliff - It will be nice to not be the only person working on the cross section. I wouldn't worry about the fitting out kit. I mill my own wood, too. David and Greg were very nice and sold me cannon barrels and the instructions separate from the wood kit. It isn't a big problem to mill as you go along, and it give you complete freedom to work in whatever wood you want, and to have your cross section be a little different than everyone elses. If you have the tools, milling the wood is the least challenging part of the build. It also completely liberates you from worrying about running out of wood if you have to redo parts to get them the way you want. The Swan books and cross section instructions are excellent. Greg and David have provided huge amounts of help and advice along the way for me, and I expect will for you as well. If there is anything I can help with, please feel free to PM me. I work slowly and check the site sporadically. I did one scratch build before this (Hahn style Hannah). The cross section is very different - the full framing and detailed interior make it a completely different project and I'm learning a huge number of new things. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress. Best, Dave

Vince and Druxey - many thanks. I still haven't moved anything back in. I spent the last few days cleaning the plaster dust that got all over the house, and yesterday moving many boxes of stuff out of a storage locker and into the new attic room. I got my wife's side of the garage back in order. I'm hoping to be back in business by next weekend. Dave

We just finished some work on our house, which included major renovations to my workshop. I thought of putting up a build log of the renovations, but it wasn't me doing the work, and I just never got it together. My old workshop was my dream workshop when we moved into the house. It was the first time I ever had a dedicated room, and it was decent size, around 17x12 feet. It was a usual basement room: unfinished, with exposed insulation, uncovered small part-eating gap between slab and wall, and just got outgrown as I go more tools and tried to work on two projects at once. The room was off a “two-car garage”, which only fit two cars if they are parked front to back. I used my table and band saws there. At the urging of my tremendously supportive wife, we put up an insulated wall that splits the garage and creates a new second workshop room. There is a third furnace room in back, which we were able to clear out. All three rooms will be part of the new workshop. The two front rooms got: -Sheet rock over ceilings and exposed insulation -Painted walls, ceilings, and floors -lights and electrical outlets -dehumidifier with drain for condensate -vent for spray booth -molding covering gap between walls and slab where parts always disappeared -utility sinks The unfinished furnace room got lights and electrical outlets. The epoxy floors should be dry enough that I can start to move my tables and tools back in over the weekend. Plan is for storage and big sawdust producing machines in the unfinished room (band saw and table saw). Still working on the layout of the other rooms. Most likely paint and assembly in the new room with the spray booth vent, and wood and metal small power tools in the old workshop. I don’t think I will outgrow this workshop, and now could build something bigger than a model if I ever want to. Some pictures below. The camera on my phone made the rooms look a lot darker than they really are - the lighting is great. I didn’t take any of the furnace room. It looks like an unfinished basement room with a furnace in the corner, but now with lights and enough electrical outlets. First two pictures are the new room, second two are the renovated old workshop room. Should be able to get back to Echo in a week or so. It’s been sitting on the shelf if my office waiting.

Definitely keep both. I have both, and have them both set up all the time. I tend to have the Byrnes set up to rip, and the Preac for cross cutting - saves having to remove the fence from the Byrnes whenever I want to cross cut anything more than a few inches long. I particularly like the Preac for fine cutting - the parts tend not to fly as far away, and when I need to use a really thin blade. For blades less than .02" thick, a 2" blade is less likely to flex and wander than a 3" blade. The Preac works really well for ripping really thin wood like .024" stock for treenails. I have full sets of blades for both. While some blades get used more frequently on each saw than others, I end up using all of them, particularly for slotting.

I'm still working off a pear slab that I got from righteous lumber (http://www.righteouswoods.com/) about 10 years ago. They are still in business. I bought 4/4, but they had 8/4 and thicker (can remember if it was 10/4 or 12/4) as well. When I purchased from them, I lived in MA and picked out my piece and drove home with it. I think they ship. I have also been very impressed with Gilmer wood. I just bought a couple of pieces of boxwood from them. If you order from them, call them and tell them what you are looking for. I had planned to buy two pieces that looked good in the pictures on their website. When I spoke with them and explained I was building model ships, they said the pieces I was interested in weren't good enough, and if I was OK waiting, they would contact me when they had better. They emailed me about 8 weeks later. What I ended up getting was really beautiful - great color, tight grained, very uniform. I was really impressed with the service. Dave

I completed the upper hull planking to the level of the shear strake. Treenails are boxwood. I started work on the inner upper hull planking as well. I added the quarterdeck clamp and port stops. I’m going to use swiss pear on the bulwarks planking and gun carriages. I have some bloodwood, which would do better for a red color, but the grain seems too prominent. I must have had some cumulative error in my measurements. The plans specify two 11.5” planks with the lower one starting at the upper edge of the gunport. This put the quarterdeck too high, so I thinned both strakes. I used boxwood for the clamp on the side I am leaving unplanked. Hopefully the different woods on the two sides won’t look bad. The alternative was to use pear on both sides, but then it would have been the only piece of wood that wasn’t boxwood on that side of the hull. I still haven’t decided about treenails for the holly lower hull. I’m going to put finish on the upper hull tonight and reassess. I think it will make the boxwood treenails more prominent, and if it does, I may decide the outer hull looks busy enough and not add any more treenails. I’m still a little stuck on next steps. I’d planned on putting in the lower and upper deck quickwork and spirketing prior to installing the deck beams and inner fixtures so I can sand and treenail without disrupting anything. It looks like the placement of the deck beam and waterway determines the placement of the quickwork, so I may need to start work on the lower deck.

Jonathan - Congratulations on finishing! Ship and case look beautiful. Tremendous work. Dave

Toni and Maury - Many thanks! I have been working from David and Greg's practicum, and took the height of the waterline from the diagram on page 25. In the diagram, it comes to just under the wales at this part of the ship. I'm still up in the air about treenailing the holly. I finished planking from the wales to the shear strake last night. I'm heading out for a business trip, and will treenail the upper hull on my return. I will decide about treenailing the lower hull when I see how busy the hull looks at that point. I think I'm going deviate significantly from the practicum order and finish the internal and external planking before installing the deck beams and interior fittings. Things like sanding treenails and port stops flush should be much easier without these parts in place. Hopefully this isn't going to cause me problems later. It seems like it should be OK - it looks like the placement of all the innards follows from the location of the deck clamps, and there aren't any parts of the internal planking that depends on anything else. Dave

Hi Eddie - use the swiss pear wherever you think it would look good. I used it on gun carriages, some of the upper planking, hatches, and some other deck fittings. It contrasts nicely with the other woods. The longboat in my avatar and post #29 in my build log show the different woods together. I used boxwood for masts and ebony for spars. If you are using boxwood, either buy the strips, or prepare to have to cut multiple pieces. When I was ripping my own boxwood for masts, I got a lot of pieces that weren't straight. Looking forward to seeing your build. Dave

Hi Toni - I looked at your Atalanta planking, and your holly with with bamboo treenails does look incredible. I had two reasons for not treenailing. I'm probably overthinking this (which isn't unusual for me). First, I picked the holly to simulate coating with whitestuff, and I thought the treenails wouldn't have shown through the coating. As I think about it, this isn't really consistent with my other treenails. I used ebony on the wales to simulate black paint, which would have covered treenails, but I treenailed anyways. Other reason is that the cross section was supposed to be a brief learning exercise to get me ready to do a fully framed ship, and has evolved into a multi-year adventure. I'm pretty comfortable with treenailing, and kind of wanted to get on to next steps. Now that I look at your pictures, I'm having second thoughts. I might make some holly treenails and try a test piece. I like a little less contrast, and to me the end grain from the treenails of the same kind of wood gives an effect I like. I worked overnight, so won't do anything until at least tomorrow, and will give it some more thought in the interim. thanks! Dave

Many thanks for all your responses - this is very helpful. Dave

Hi Eddie - I've built the model shipways rattlesnake replacing all the wood, and a Hannah from Hahn plans. On these models and my current project I have been using the same wood that Harold Hahn used - the contrast is really nice. I use Castillo boxwood (not European like Hahn did - not easily available any more) for the frames and main planking, ebony for the wales, holly for the deck and lower hull planking, and swiss pear for contrast. If you use holly, be careful with what finish you use, as a lot of the ones that are beautiful on darker woods will turn the white holly yellow. It needs a quick drying finish that does not penetrate the wood. If you don't want to bend ebony (a pain, but not impossible), you can get great results with dye on holly or pear. I have a table and band saw, so I rip billets from blocks of wood and use a thickness sander to bring to final thickness. This gives the flexibility to makes strips of any dimension. Crown Timberyard seems to sell premilled sheets and strips of these woods. You may need some reference books to figure out the sizes you will need. You will need a lot of whatever dimension the frames are - the Hahn method is quick, but wastes a lot of wood on the frames. If there is a list of wood in one of the timbering sets you could probably work off that. I think the lumberyard does timbering sets for all the Hahn models, and if you call them might be able to put one together in the woods you want. Rattlesnake is a beautiful ship - best of luck with your project. Dave