Keith Black

And just like that, her beautiful lines come to life

Thanks for the visits.
Making sawdust. The first set of bulkheads these are cut to the inside of the ribs.
These are the set for the port side and I have been reworking them, most needed to be jumped to give enough wood to allow for the new shape.
 

The #11 was trimmed from the #12 and so it goes.
 

I will use the port set as templates for the starboard set.

Work continues.
 
Michael

An update, I have reworked the lines for the umpteenth time I revisited all the pictures that I have and further correspondence with Roger. I did cut out all the 23 stations in 3/16 basswood and will now need to revisit those and reshape most of them The keel will need to be remade so at some point i will use the old keel for a freelance model. The stem would be the only thing that could be reused so it will be better to start over.
I am going to build this, now that all the information matches.
 

and here is a PDF of the plans.
 
new lines march 25.pdf
 
So now I am going to take a break away from the desk and do some cutting.
 
Michael
 
 

Lantern hung more simply than I first intended. The height is too low my original over designed system. The lantern can be positioned fore or aft depending on where light is most needed.  The lantern line can also serve as a clothes line. 
 The block that the lantern hangs from are the blocks that AL supplied with their kit. They seem too small except for light use like the lantern or the flag. I'm going to use larger blocks for the rigging, I hung one on the lantern line to show difference in size. 

Ken
 Beautiful work, have you ever thought about doing an interurban car? .........KB 

Ken
 Beautiful work, have you ever thought about doing an interurban car? .........KB 

Lantern hung more simply than I first intended. The height is too low my original over designed system. The lantern can be positioned fore or aft depending on where light is most needed.  The lantern line can also serve as a clothes line. 
 The block that the lantern hangs from are the blocks that AL supplied with their kit. They seem too small except for light use like the lantern or the flag. I'm going to use larger blocks for the rigging, I hung one on the lantern line to show difference in size. 

Hello again all.  With the hope of trying to get a better definition of this sail plan, I have investigated further (again) and find this rig was quite common in the mercantile ships (especially steam assisted clippers etc) of the 1850s.  See line drawing of City of Glasgow below (from Wikipedia).
 
It appears yet again that even back then there was no name convention for the sail plan as it is most commonly referred to as "Barque Rig" while not accounting for the differences.  It also further confirms the usage/configuration is associated with steam screw vessels.  This is exactly the same sail plan (cannot confirm mast configuration) as for "Victoria"
 
Just to be sure i am not going the wrong rabbit hole, does a barque rig include the fore/aft (gaff) sails?
 
So in the absence of correct terminology I think I would have to find the belaying plan of a ship that had this rig/sail plan.  In the absence of such, I think I will run with Barque sail plan and rigging, and modify it to accommodate the gaffs etc.
 
Highly unusual that such a common rig (as it is proving to be) has not been covered with any detail or even named - perhaps we show simply run with Kipping and called it a "Steamers" rig?
 

 
cheers
 
Pat

Hi again all, following some ideas elicited from the above comments, I relooked at some plans in the NMM and came across the sail plan for the Alert Class Gun Despatch Vessels (one of the designs that heavily influenced Victoria's design - assumption) and found her sail plan (ZAZ6663 - Boxx 66 7418A).  This plan (sail wise) is exactly the same and as she was a steam screw sloop; I think it is now safe to assume that this particular sail plan was designed for these type of vessels.
 
There are no details on the mast construction, but I think I can now lean a little more on Kippings drawings and text for the masthead and fixtures as fitted for a "steamer" - now to try and find a name for that rig
 
Also, I would greatly appreciate any pointers/ideas towards that combined pole mast used in this plan (combined topmast, topgallant and royal masts)
 
cheers
 
Pat

Many thanks for all the feedback folks and I am ever so glad to hear that this rig is not just making me a little 'squirrely' (or squarky or quary or Scuaqey" etc
 
I do know the RN adopted this rig for the Beacon class (1867) and as suggested this type of rig appears unique to steam screw sloops/vessels.  I am very surprised though that I cannot find mention of it by any author of that time, or since, nor can I find any reference of it in the NMM or Rigsarkivit museum holdings.  I think it may have been Lees or Fincham that stated that most post-1850 rigs were fully described with dimensions etc as part of their records; so I am very surprised there is nothing listed in the NMM etc.  I will have a good look through the Dutch museum (online) also as that may turn something up - thanks Amateur.  
 
As to 'light courses', my reading of related correspondence between Oliver W. Lang (Designer) and Capt. Lockyer RN (ship's build superintendent) suggests this meant smaller courses (and possibly yards) than a normal 'ship/barque) fit, that is, not as deep, as the main course for example had to clear the funnel etc, and more often than not, (for Victoria at least) was not even 'loosed' when sailing was assisted with steam power.
 
The reasoning for the ample sail, in Victoria's case at least, was the cost of the coal (referenced as 'black diamonds' more than once).  There is some correspondence from the ship's Captain (Commander Norman) to suggest that steam power was there to enable passage/salley to predefined points in the harbour (even if wind did not allow) to defend the port of Melbourne (Port Phillip) to allow a coordinated defence with the coastal batteries to ensure any/every entry course could be covered, and also to assist in manoeuvring for saving lives from a shipwrecks etc; most of the time the ship would try to use sail power only.  One letter during the ship's sea trial even states steam power to assist the ship departing the river and then revert to sail power as soon as possible.
 
I will continue search for a description of this rig as it will help determine many aspects of the masting, yards and sails, especially the mast fittings.  Kipping and other provide very good details and illustrations for a 'steamer', "schooner' etc but not such a combined rig.  So in the interests of getting a start, I will take the many useful comments into consideration but as all 'known' instances of this rig seems to have been on steam screw vessels, i will use the mastherad configuration (lower mast) provided by Kipping, but modify some of the fittings/furniture to better support a schooner rig.  there will be a single doubling, using Kippings tables for the heeling of a standard topmast, but modify the tables to try and get a reasonable list of diameters for a combined topmast, topgallant and roal mast (as a pole), and see how that eventuates.
 
Does anyone know if James Lees is still active in this field (rigging etc) as a correspondence with him may elicit some further information?
 
cheers
 
Pat

Barque? Schooner? Why not a Scuaque (as in The Hunting of the Snark)?

A jackass barque is fully square rigged on the for but not the main or, in a fore masted vessel, usually square rigged on the fore and main and fore and aft rigged on the mizzen and jigger.
 
This vessel is only partially square rigged on both for and main so would more properly be called a topsail schooner on even a two topsail schooner.
 
John

And some were designed with a rediculous among nt of sail. Apparantly they did not trust the steam engine (or it was more economically sailing to the far east than steaming  )
 

The only rigging info I can find is this kind of diagrams:
http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/archief/inventaris/gahetnascans/eadid/4.MST/inventarisnr/797/level/file

Victoria was not the only one carrying this kind of rig.No naming, though....
 
Jan

There are a couple of ships in the dutch achive (like the bali) http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/archief/inventaris/gahetnascans/eadid/4.MST/inventarisnr/797/level/file
 
they are all referred to as steam-screw ships, sometimes added: schooner rig
unfortunatedly, there are no rigging diagrams in the archive, just hull-details
 
Jan

OK, here comes some rolling stock I've been fiddling with since Thanksgiving. All are HO scale (1/87).
Blue car in the back is a scale 86' car with extended coupler pockets. It's a little over a foot long. Middle car is a scale 50'. Front one is 36'. Blue car is late 60s, middle car mid 50s and the little one is pre-WWI.
Braced the insides and added the coupler boxes on the body. Original coupler mount was a swing arm off the truck (wheel-set at each end). Car needs a huge radius to run. I built it more as a kit-bashing exercise.

Added the silvery brake platform down low on the end. It's stainless photo etch and a bear to cut with a hobby knife.  I use a Xuron cutter. A few more things to add like air lines and paint here.

Same railroad, different paint schemes over the years. Front car is WWI era, middle is around WWII. Back car is post WWII.

This is the level of detail in many kits today, although this was built up from many pieces/parts. Careful gluing here. Nowadays, model companies have the Chinese build up the cars and sell them ready to run. Where's the fun in that?

This is the brake pipes and rods on the underframe. The cylinder towards the top is an air reservoir, the little collection of box like objects underneath that reservoir is the master valve and the small cylinder on the left with a cone pointing left is the actual brake cylinder. It actuates the rodding to set and release the brakes on the trucks.

Simpler early brake equipment.
 
Manufacturers would have you gluing all of this stuff together, but I choose to screw the coupler boxes and truck kingpins, in case they need replacing. (You never know when a car will take a fall off  benchwork over a meter off the floor. The resulting crash could dekit the whole car or do significant damage to it) Mostly 2-56 screws, a few 1-72 or 0-80, like on the big auto box. I tap the holes to keep things square, but some of the plastic parts can be done with self tapping screws. The metal details, like the coupler boxes on the 86' car, are pewter, so you have to tap those holes. Same for any zamac or pot metal parts.
 
These and the other cars I've done up are all in need of paint and weathering. And I have a couple of more intense kit bashes, requiring cutting up bodies and under-frames. One hopper and a handful of refrigerator cars.
 

Welcome to the rabbit hole, this is how it starts.
 I'll just restore this ole ship, how hard can it be? Well, that old rigging is rotten, need to remove and replace that. Oh geez, a couple of the blocks disintegrated when I removed the rigging, need to order some of those. That fitting is broken, can't find one, gonna have to make that. Gotta strip everything away from the model where I can get to every little place with that saliva coated Q-Tip (I'm going to disagree here with my more learned colleagues. As dirty as your vessels are, unless you can spit like a camel, I suggest you use paint thinner sparingly applied with Q-Tips. Do a small test area first that's not seen unless standing on your head. I've used paint thinner with no ill effects.) As you progress you'll find you need to know how to do certain things so you'll be searching NRG's site and get caught up in build logs that had absolutely nothing to do with your original search but, wow what beautiful work! Then you start thinking, I'd like to build a ship (my current state) and here you are, "mezzanine, watch your step"
 Avnips, go for it! Honor your Grandfather's memory and have something you're proud of that was his. You'll not be sorry if you have an interest in ship models which you obviously do. There is a wealth of information within the NRG site, in fact so much so, that like a great book, it's hard to put down. Ship modeling is a great hobby, it'll teach you patience, give you a sense of pride, and take you down roads you never knew existed. 
 Welcome aboard...........Keith
 

Kortes - thank you - excellent - must try that.

Kortes, Thank you for the tutorial on the sail making, I really like the results.
 
Michael

Interesting and tricky technique! Thank you for sharing this, Kortes.

And the last step. We fix the thick thread to our "chief" thread and pull it in in place of the pulled out threads. I had to skein the pulled-in  thread, because I couldnt fing the thread of the required diameter.  That's how I did it. 

Kortes
 
Please tell me more about your sail cloth. Did you pull threads out of the material and then weave in thicker treads to create the impression of seams?

Greetings  Keith. Taking into the consideration the gained experience, the technology is the following. Mark the width of the cloth. And draw out several threads. In my case I had to pull out five threads. It depends on the width of the tread you want to put in in place of the taken out ones, and , of course of the size of the sail. We need to pull 5 threads out, leave in place 2, one of them will be used to put in place the "chief" thread, and the second will be left as a backup - in case the first one will break. If you manage to pull the thread in without tearing it, this second one will have to be pullled out.

Gabe
 How very kind, thank you. 
 Regarding the construction of the lantern see the following.
 As far as positioning I'm going to hang it on a running a line between the two mast. I'm currently in the process of making all the necessary items, I'll post pics as soon as the lantern is in the air. 
 Thank you again.........Keith

Welcome to the rabbit hole, this is how it starts.
 I'll just restore this ole ship, how hard can it be? Well, that old rigging is rotten, need to remove and replace that. Oh geez, a couple of the blocks disintegrated when I removed the rigging, need to order some of those. That fitting is broken, can't find one, gonna have to make that. Gotta strip everything away from the model where I can get to every little place with that saliva coated Q-Tip (I'm going to disagree here with my more learned colleagues. As dirty as your vessels are, unless you can spit like a camel, I suggest you use paint thinner sparingly applied with Q-Tips. Do a small test area first that's not seen unless standing on your head. I've used paint thinner with no ill effects.) As you progress you'll find you need to know how to do certain things so you'll be searching NRG's site and get caught up in build logs that had absolutely nothing to do with your original search but, wow what beautiful work! Then you start thinking, I'd like to build a ship (my current state) and here you are, "mezzanine, watch your step"
 Avnips, go for it! Honor your Grandfather's memory and have something you're proud of that was his. You'll not be sorry if you have an interest in ship models which you obviously do. There is a wealth of information within the NRG site, in fact so much so, that like a great book, it's hard to put down. Ship modeling is a great hobby, it'll teach you patience, give you a sense of pride, and take you down roads you never knew existed. 
 Welcome aboard...........Keith