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Skipjack by michael mott - 1/8th scale - SMALL - 19 foot open launch


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Floss/Skipjack  Part 1

 

History

 

Floss was one of a pair of Launches that were built in 1909 by Herbert Minett and was powered by a single cylinder Ferro engine, her sister named Skipjack pictured here had a two cylinder Buffalo engine.

 

These launches were built for Andrew Mellon the Pittsburgh Millionaire.

 

Model

I am still tracking down information about Floss, and I have a few leads. I am going to build this model the same way as the full size boats of this type were often built.

 

Moulds were suspended from the ceiling in some cases and others were built upside down. The Stem Keel and Stern timbers were set up and the moulds positioned.   In either case to build a model using either of these methods I will need to support the moulds and backbone to fix ribbands for setting the bent frames before planking.

 

After the ribbands are fixed to the Stem,  moulds and stern  the bent frames will be fitted to the keel  and  then temporarily attached to the ribbands with pins. Once all the frames are set the sheer clamps and bilge stringers  and floors will be added.

 

After the basic shell is assembled then the planking will commence.

 

In order to accomplish all this I needed to build a building board with some specific features.

Using odds and ends of materials I had laying around the shop I came up with an acceptable solution.

 

The base is 36inches by 10inches by 1 7/32 inches thick it was cut from and old office desk top.

The white square tubes are 3/4 inch railing bars left over from a project a couple of years ago.

The blue anodized aluminum tubes are also 3/4 inch diameter left over from another project.

The white plastic components were machined from some offcuts picked up at a commercial plastic supplier.

The aluminum rails are a low cost bar clamp that was cut in half and the clamp mechanisms removed.

The dome nuts are 5/16 and are threaded onto a length of 5/16 ready rod that causes the clamps to lock on the rails.

The cross rails are a sections of some 3/4 inch U channel that was slit down the middle in the table saw. The cross rails are clamped with some cherry blocks and 4x40 allen head cap screws.

 

post-202-0-50734200-1386031682_thumb.jpg

 

post-202-0-01230900-1386031684_thumb.jpg

 

post-202-0-99989100-1386031680_thumb.jpg

 

These lines are still being reviewed and updated as I get new information, When I am satisfied that they are as good as I can get then the build will actually start.

 

post-202-0-89586000-1386032951_thumb.jpg

 

Floss lines.pdf

 

Until then I am getting on with some tests regarding bent frames and testing my ideas about the construction method, and finishing the elements of the building board.

 

post-202-0-08683900-1386031815_thumb.jpg

 

Because of scale and look at the large scale of 1:8 the frames will need to be made of something different than oak it is just too coarse. these frames are 1 1/4 scale inches square Fir the wood was boiled for 15 minutes in water. The actual frames will likely be somewhere around 1 1/4 by 3/4 with the inside edges rounded off before bending. I am also testing without heating and just soaking overnight.

 

This will probably be a while in the making and I am in no rush I have lots of work doing the testing and research. it is a great diversion and a break from the intense work on the Pilot Cutter. Plus I needed something to fill in my spare time;>)

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Would this lunch be open to everyone if we bring a few beers along?  ;)

 

Wow! - another Mott Masterclass in the offing.  I am really looking forward to this, and am intrigued by your building board and can't quite figure out how you will use it...?  Time will tell no doubt.  I am prepared to wager a large sum that the 1/8 scale Ferro engine will be a work of art in its own right.

 

I know you are taking it easy on this build - bit not TOO easy please! 

 

Greg

Edited by SailorGreg
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Hello Greg and welcome to this build. Lunch is fixed, so yes come along for some goodies

 

The Ferro engine will be a working gasoline engine as well. when I was 16 I made a working overhead valve gas engine that ran on lighter fluid the piston was made from an old spark plug and the crankshaft was made from a few sections of bicycle chain soldered together. the points were full size off an old car and the whole lot was soldered together with soft solder. it was very crude but it would run for about 30 seconds  before running out of fuel.

 

I have learned a few things since then so I would imagine that once I have the drawings of the Ferro Engine I will be able to build one.

 

The building board is designed to hold the mould boards while the ribbands are fitted with the boat held up about 2 1/2 inches off the base so that I can get to it all easily. The fixtures for holding the stem and stern posts are not yet made I will work on these as time permits.

 

Today I have a lot of snow to clear and it is -16 degrees and windy.

 

Michael

Edited by michael mott

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Ah, yes.  Fun in the makeing.  :)

 

Bob

Every build is a learning experience.

 

Current build:  SS_ Mariefred

 

Completed builds:  US Coast Guard Pequot   Friendship-sloop,  Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard,   Spray,   Grand-Banks-dory

                                                a gaff rigged yawl,  HOGA (YT-146),  Int'l Dragon Class II,   Two Edwardian Launches 

 

In the Gallery:   Catboat,   International-Dragon-Class,   Spray

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Andy, there are quite a few plans out there for model IC engines, The model engineer featured quite a few over the years.

 

Bob, thanks for looking in.

 

Floss Part 2

 

The next stage of the build board included fixing the top rails together with some 3/4 x 1 1/2 inch U channel this will also hold the clamps for the stem and stern.

 

Also some pictures of the way that the top frame can be flipped over.

 

post-202-0-46860600-1386127251_thumb.jpg

 

post-202-0-80062500-1386127249_thumb.jpg

 

post-202-0-26576900-1386127246_thumb.jpg

 

post-202-0-61266800-1386127247_thumb.jpg

 

Michael

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Michael,

 

This looks to be another fascinating build.  Intriguing build board.  I'm pulling up a chair.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Mark, Crackers, welcome. I hope that I can contribute some interesting methods for others to try, although I'm guessing that most of this will have already been done by somebody else. I will be setting up three mould forms and a stem to test the principle of working with this frame.

 

1. To see what sort of dimension and strength that the ribbands will need to be.

2. To determine if the temporary attachment method will in fact work.

3. To find out if the method of placing the planks to the ribs will also work satisfactorily.

4  To test the mould and stem clamps.

 

The picture shows frame number 17 test this was done using the pins on the homasote board, it is clear Fir with the grain laying flat across the width of the frame.

I will need to choose carefully the wood and the grain direction for maximum strength.

 

post-202-0-18610900-1386132694_thumb.jpg

 

I have been able to get an email forwarded to the present owner of Floss, and am hoping it proves to be fruitful.

 

Michael

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Floss Part 3

 

For the first test I am setting up 4 moulds and the stem, gripe stem knee and a section of keel.

 

The moulds are bolted to the cross beams with 4x40 cap screws,

 

post-202-0-79997500-1386216265_thumb.jpg

 

The strips are 1/8th by 1/8th white pine that I will try as ribbands for the first test

 

I have discovered that I need to add a little side to side movement to fine tune the moulds to the centreline.

 

post-202-0-43281200-1402172082_thumb.jpg

 

The moulds on the cross beams are positioned using some small engineers squares.

 

post-202-0-18943800-1386216264_thumb.jpg

 

Michael

 

 

 

Edited by michael mott

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Michael,

 

Just the jig and moulds themselves are impressive as hell...   A scale model unto itself.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Looks great Michael, Very nice setup you have there

 

Best Regards,

Pete

"may your sails be full of wind and the sun on your back"
 
Current Builds :

 

 

 

 

 Future Builds :
 

N.G Herreshoff 12 1/2 Scratch Build 3/4" = 1' - 0" Scale

 

Completed Builds :

 

Volvo 65 Farr Yacht Design

Herreshoff Alerion

Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14

Volvo Open 70

 

 Member : 

 

The Herreshoff Registry                                  Montgomery Sailboat Owners Group       Peter Kunst Sailboat Models 
http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/                       http://www.msog.org/                      http://www.facebook.com/Peter-Kunst-Sailboat-Models-1524464774524480/ 

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Michael,

Fabulous idea! Nice looking subject; I hope you're able to get the information you need for your satisfaction, although the photo of Skipjack gives you quite a bit of information. This model will be about 28.5" long? With working engine? That build will be fun to watch, although I can't envision a crankshaft out of a bicycle chain!

Tom

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Mark, Pete, Tom, thanks for looking in.

 

Mark, some of the building boards that I have seen on this forum were my inspiration, there are some nice rigs out there.

 

Pete, I am hoping that this set up will be flexible enough to use for a number of small boat hulls.

 

Tom, Yes you are correct the drawings I have done so far put the hull at 28 1/2  inches with a beam of 7 1/2 inches and 2 1/2 free-board at midships with a draught of 1 11/32. these dimensions are subject to change as I get more accurate information hopefully from the present owner. My other route would be to contact  the owner of Skipjack which is the sister boat albeit with a bigger engine, a Two Cylinder Buffalo.

 

Michael

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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That's a nice loking building frame.  Glad I'm watching this build.

 

Bob

Every build is a learning experience.

 

Current build:  SS_ Mariefred

 

Completed builds:  US Coast Guard Pequot   Friendship-sloop,  Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard,   Spray,   Grand-Banks-dory

                                                a gaff rigged yawl,  HOGA (YT-146),  Int'l Dragon Class II,   Two Edwardian Launches 

 

In the Gallery:   Catboat,   International-Dragon-Class,   Spray

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Bob thanks, I can tell you that fiddling around with this frame has given me a whole new appreciation for all the builders out there building the fully framed models I would be forever turning the thing over to shake out something I dropped into the depths.

 

John, not a chance that this will take away too much from the cutter, I just wanted to get a bit of a start  building the board and doing some tests while researching the launch. 

 

Floss Part 4

 

Made one of the classic mistakes today, I measured off one of my prints and not a dimension, and the scale was off on the print. hence the brass spacer. I kept looking at the keel clamp next to the drawing, and the keel itself all were fine it was a different print that the spacer stand was on.

 

post-202-0-69149700-1402172219_thumb.jpg

 

The other screw up today was breaking this 5/8ths end mill while making the aluminum keel clamp supports that were too short. I had used a piece of aluminum the same thickness as the piece being machined so the piece was not tight enough in the vice. I was using a climb cut and as soon as the cutter began it started to pull the metal toward itself and before I could turn off the mill the end mill snapped.

 

post-202-0-61411900-1386309162_thumb.jpg

 

The wooden keel clamps are made from a piece of white Lilac that I cut in 1974 lovely wood.

 

post-202-0-58637900-1386309163_thumb.jpg

 

The keel test piece is maple and the width is 11/32

 

post-202-0-71960000-1386309164_thumb.jpg

 

post-202-0-35606900-1402172272_thumb.jpg

 

The gripe is balancing on the rest of the test keel

 

post-202-0-94346100-1386309159_thumb.jpg

 

Michael

 

Edited by michael mott

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Well I did not get to work on any models today see my post about Maria. However I had a wonderful conversation this afternoon with a Roger Dyment who is the owner of Skipjack the sister to Floss, the boats are identical except for the engines, and since i have not heard from the owner of Floss I think I will be building her sister.

Roger told me that he would be happy to give me any assistance, and take photographs of the hull as she is out of the water for winter. Roger told me that about 70% of the hull timber is original, and although the Buffalo Engine is not it is the correct vintage here is a link that roger passed on about Skipjack
Michael

Edited by michael mott

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Michael -

 

Yet another excellent and impressive project.  Count me in as an appreciative observer. 

 

Where do you find the time and energy for all these projects at the same time?  Do you sleep at all?

 

Dan

Current build -SS Mayaguez (c.1975) scale 1/16" = 1' (1:192) by Dan Pariser

 

Prior scratch builds - Royal yacht Henrietta, USS Monitor, USS Maine, HMS Pelican, SS America, SS Rex, SS Uruguay, Viking knarr, Gokstad ship, Thames River Skiff , USS OneidaSwan 42 racing yacht  Queen Anne's Revenge (1710) SS Andrea Doria (1952), SS Michelangelo (1962) , Queen Anne's Revenge (2nd model) USS/SS Leviathan (1914),  James B Colgate (1892),  POW bone model (circa 1800) restoration

 

Prior kit builds - AL Dallas, Mamoli Bounty. Bluejacket America, North River Diligence, Airfix Sovereign of the Seas

 

"Take big bites.  Moderation is for monks."  Robert A. Heinlein

 

 

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Looks great Micheal

"may your sails be full of wind and the sun on your back"
 
Current Builds :

 

 

 

 

 Future Builds :
 

N.G Herreshoff 12 1/2 Scratch Build 3/4" = 1' - 0" Scale

 

Completed Builds :

 

Volvo 65 Farr Yacht Design

Herreshoff Alerion

Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14

Volvo Open 70

 

 Member : 

 

The Herreshoff Registry                                  Montgomery Sailboat Owners Group       Peter Kunst Sailboat Models 
http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/                       http://www.msog.org/                      http://www.facebook.com/Peter-Kunst-Sailboat-Models-1524464774524480/ 

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Michael,

Good news and bad news? Too bad the owner of Floss wouldn't respond. I think that's kind of tacky. But good news that you have found an actual boat to model. No speculating! Any possibility that you can travel to see the boat yourself rather than rely on the owner to get just the right picture?

Tom

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John, yes I was very happy to hear from Roger.

 

Dan, I just make time and my wife is very understanding, I do all the maintenance and building and do the dishes. I did not get much sleep last night because I was out putting wood in the stove every 2 hours, a better wood stove would be good.

 

Pete thanks and welcome.

 

Ed, Thanks for looking in, The method will be proved one way or another, your own dedication to research and accuracy has been one of the things that has inspired me to have a go at making an accurate model of a real existing classic boat. I am looking forward to finding out a number of various sizes and distances from Roger. I am particularly interested in the sizes of the frames, beam width, free board and the shape of the stern under the waterline.

 

One of the things that I am most interested in regarding the build, is bending the frames inside the ribbands rather than over a solid form., I might have to pre bend some but I will find out soon enough. Roger informed me that the planks are affixed with iron nails, so copper will work on the model as a substitute. It will be interesting to see if the nails are bent or were fixed with roves. 

 

Tom, Yes I agree good and bad but I have not given up hope of hearing from the owner of Floss yet, the good news is that the hulls are identical and were built at the same time, the only difference being the engines, there does seem to be a good deal of info about the Buffalo as well. The engine will certainly be a bit of a challenge but I can be like a "dog with a bone" sometimes. Regarding a visit to the real boats it is on the other side of the country and travel here is not cheap, it would definitely make a great holiday destination next summer though.

 

Michael

Edited by michael mott

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Michael, this looks fascinating...I will watch quietly and admire your craftsmanship.

Robbyn

If you risk nothing, you risk everything!

 

Current builds

Syren (Model Shipways) version 2.0

AL San Francisco II

Mordaunt (Euro Model)

Completed Builds

18th Century Longboat designed by Chuck Passaro
 

In the closet

Battle Station

Al Charles Morgan (1980s version)

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Floss part 5

 

While I am waiting for the photographs of the sister launch in Muskoka, I have been revisiting the lines drawing, Looking at a number of other lines drawing of various boats I think that I had made her a little too beamy so this is the begining of some new lines.

 

post-202-0-94903000-1402172585_thumb.jpg

 

compared to the original ones.

 

post-202-0-14058900-1402172753_thumb.jpg

 

I think the narrower lines are more graceful. it will be interesting to find out the actual beam when I hear from Roger, and see how close my guess is.

 

Michael

Edited by michael mott

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Very intresting Michael, Nice Drawing

 

Best Regards,

Pete

"may your sails be full of wind and the sun on your back"
 
Current Builds :

 

 

 

 

 Future Builds :
 

N.G Herreshoff 12 1/2 Scratch Build 3/4" = 1' - 0" Scale

 

Completed Builds :

 

Volvo 65 Farr Yacht Design

Herreshoff Alerion

Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14

Volvo Open 70

 

 Member : 

 

The Herreshoff Registry                                  Montgomery Sailboat Owners Group       Peter Kunst Sailboat Models 
http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/                       http://www.msog.org/                      http://www.facebook.com/Peter-Kunst-Sailboat-Models-1524464774524480/ 

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