Heinrich der Seefahrer

I think there will be a plenty to be done even if the hull isn't cut in to pices - the partly replacing of the wales and bulkwalks will make some problems on its own. But lket us walk to something more theoratical. We have got several pictures of SP's transom floting around in the internet. I cought the oldest one and compared to the Ancre picture of the transom: The most intersting fact is that the number of gunports under the transom was doubled and beside enclosing the first balkony there were hidden gunports added to incres the fire power of the weak transom. A pair of round windows are also added by enclosing the balkony. As far as I understand Mr-Delacroix in L'AMARANTE monography the french nobels didn't allow artillery pices in their "livingrooms" - so the lowest lart of the stem area isn't room for the officers or they changed their mind 53 years later on the building yard of L'AMARANTE ans 51 years later at LE RENOMMEÈ - much more smaller ships than the flagship of the Sun King. So what do you thing? Here we have some two level of floor transom - in a very well known original style (perchance it shows the newer/rebuld SP?) I belief the left side of the picture to be an originally Cassieri drawing - it is his style of ink and wash drawing. On the other hand there are some reconstructions in the web with a typical dark blue but this redrawing doesn't fit with the original skulptural draft... ...but perhaps I compared the wrong SPs this looks like some coloured copywork.. What is very interesting is to compare the two SP transom drawings with their several interesting differences in detail - the famous Italian sculptor Cassieri - but I don't know if he worked in France when SP was build - I know kim for the decoration of L'AMARANTE in 1747... so the SP on the left side may be a rebuild of the one on the rigth side. The 1663 SP was a 74 gun ship, rebuilt at Tolulon March '89 till May 90. After the battle of Barfleur (29.May '92) she was beached and burned by the english on the 2nd of June. So the 2nd SP ist the 90-92 first rang ship I deal with in here, followed by another 74gun ship under Louis XV in 1722 - this my match to Cassieri as sculptorist so the let side may show the 2nd 74 SP we know about or the 3rd SP in all. So the SP I'm going to build is the SPII. But let me look in some books in between and perhaps I'll find some more answers.

And the technicak drawings are high end toplevel craftmansship. Behold A for it is all the under transoms parts in min. two perspectives:

Hy Roger Mr Delacroix will hopefully answer a bit more detailled than I can do. But I estimate that the decoration is certainly a marketing feature from the Italian Rokkoko artist Casselli... and on the other hand the construction of the basic (undecorated) transom is a mathematical result of given data by Ancre. Than (so I do imaginate) the decorational artwork is resized to the transom/over the transom - by both the shipyard and Mr.Delacroix. It is in both times only one interpretation. . And that I found this error in the sidegalllery is a lucky punch. Other modelbuilders built a masterclass 1/36 model not being aware of this ornamental irregularity... i saw it due to the fact that I live near Sans Souci and have had visited hunderts of southgerman barqoue churches and rokkoko mansions during my youth time. So let us be sportsman's fair wait for Mr.Delacroix's point of view.

Thanks a lot, I'm still working with the copies now only. The 1/36 scale is so wonderful big but will give such a massive hull it couldn't be placed on my resting shelf. Here my scetch for the three points (A,B,C) in the bulkhead (E) and also in the frame (F) The points are definited by (B): the crossing of the construction water line (CWL) and middel line (ML) (A & C): upper outside edge of a square wood to fiddle the bulkheads behind each other. (I'll later do a propper drawing on transpatentpaper with differend coloured lines.) My question to the public is the followering: Under (B) is the long groove to put in a kind of middle board or shall I cut a short groove to just to lay in the keel? Thanks for your help.

That looks very interesting, Albert, I like the old victory especialy due to her fineart elaborated figurehead and the interesting decoration of the early Gregorian era. I will learn a plenty from your build. Thanks for sharing and I'll take frankly a nutwood chair to look over your shoulder. Here the link to this 1/4scale figurehead replica: https://www.hms-victory.com/bones/frame?layout=simple&fr=p H.t.h.

Thanks a lot, I'm still working with the copies now only. The 1/36 scale is so wonderful big but will give such a massive hull it couldn't be placed on my resting shelf.

thank you very very much for your advice!!! And then I'll copy everything on frosted Mylar sheets by hand...

I have now to identify the PoB-bulkhads being identical to the PoF-frames and then I'll have to transfere the frames into bulkheads. So the very first thing I do need are three fixed points in the empty over the keel's groove. So lets walk to the copyshop again and copy all the frames singulary, numbering them and then I'll be back at the drawing board doing some fine scale work. At the very end I hope to have transformed all the frames into bulkheads. That's the very idea of the hole process.

Hello EJ, Thanks a lot for sharing your SR-build. I found a lot of interesting inventions you did - as colouring the blue planks before adding. My own SR is stil on her shipping way to me (coming from GB) and will be rebuild as Sankt Philippe. So a very similar thing you do - pimping the decoration. Hoping you stay in this manner of quality till you finish the last flag knob. For the ordonance's detailing there is the well known book of Wolfram Mondfeld „ Schiffsgeschütze 1380 - 1850 “ ) it is part one of a twin series where the second never appeared. Perhaps you can get in by your local libary from the Smithmodian or so. It is very helpful for barrels, carriage and rigg.

I've read the hole theme but I still miss any excat idea or number of the scale. I've somewhere read about 1/90 - what is your opnion?

Perchance the scale isn't worth it... But noew you have got the plans enlarge them up to 1:48 and the riveting will make your day 😋...

🤔 „IN MY VIEW IT'S NOT JUST WORTH IT.“ HsS/NYC ...that seems to be a plenty of work nearly a rebuild (after cutting down the hull down to the keel). It is much more work coming up to me than a hand full of changes I dreamed of. That is a pitty but I think it is good to stay on the save side. Better playing with Evergreen a bit on the wales and doing some minor plastic surgery on the hull. It makes no sence to tear down everything with no garanty to get a nice smooth thumblehome again - and I didn't want a staircase as newish boardside... So moderation is the order of the day - sounds silly with a Sunking's threedecker, but that's what it is: safe. Okay I've got some good and some bad news: the good is the information, the ordered kit it is on its way to me. So sadly I'm still - since the 14.XII.'18 waiting for the hole project's basis the Ancre 5,2kg pacel and squaremiles of plans...

Shortly before christmas I studied the fold out plans my self. Best gratulations to choose these prototype and to start this wunderful project. I'm highly intetested to see more of your next steps and taking me a chair adding the gathering around your workbranch.

What an interesting little schooner project - I'm going to take a chair looking over your shoulder. Thanks for sharing your wonderful progresses from Berlin/Germany.

„She was the larges craft afloat and the greatest of the works of man.“ Futility written 1898 and telling the Titanic story including the collision with this iceberg at forced speed. Your build is wonderful and you get the most out of the kit. Please remember the massiv riviting on the hull plating. Good plans can be found here: http://www.titanic-plan.com/i_HW_plans_e.html Hope this helps.

What I'm really afraid of is the figurehead and I think about it too often. But perhaps as it is three drecks high a three time so large figure might be a good idea - some Tamiya in 1/35 might be helpful... 😝😄

I think in the same way, Hubac! Now back to the historical facts about SR and SP. I'll try to list the main data side-by-side... so back soon to the bookshelf:

I. So it might be some idea to cut the 4mm or 0,157“ away under the gunwale. So the woodstructure ends again under the gunwale but 4mm less. This would be a heavy violation and might not confirm to the thumbledome of the hull. So I might have produced an offset in the structure. So it might be easier to lift the CWL optical and sand off the gunewale replacing it by Evergreen stripes? Or less interventional to brighten the gunwales by Evergreen stripes to get the very same effect. This must be tryed on the hull-copy directly. Perchance nothing could be canged and we have to accept that the sun king wants a ship towering over all the other ships in the fleet... His Majesty was egomanical and powefull enough for such absolute solutions. Those ideas were an integral part of the absolutistic world - we should judge about old times with their eyes not with ours... _ex_antefante_ is right way i.m.h.o. not the always best informed view from the Miss know it all _ex_post_ perspective. Let us wait for the Ancre book with the scaled plans we will see if we realy are in trouble. II. I think about the turn-over of my kit 40years ago and by this I'm horrorfied. So I think about a very solid stand for the kit. A cross as long as the hull and wider than it's beam. Two turenes wooden columns with screws inside will take the wight. The lateral forces will be taken by two even higher collums on the )0( - former with a block on top. This block's one inner side does cling to he hull and a screw will go right into a parallel wood to the floor cross. The modern screw's ends will disappeare under the signum of the sun king. So hopefully the lateral force and listing danger is banned. By this I got far far into future - but isn't it better to notice such ideas than to forget?

Aaaaah... so he is a French speaking Belgian... did figured that out till now. No we do speak about the very same SR2LR-project I think.

Here Vatis SR [from a German forum] and the SP in comparance... looks as it may realy work.

There will be no such mastership with you and Dafi!!!

...a spaceship EnterprizE - may be? 🤣

Thanks Kirill for motivating me, but this rebuild will need a plenty of time beside some other projects.

Hello friends of the unusual today II start a short cut: SR2SP ! We all knoe HsH's enormous rebuild of the SR out of the box towards her real apearance. - and this remembered me on my mistake 40 years ago when I at adding the last flag torn my SR from the desk down on the floor accidentaly. I also read in Cederic L. rebuild to Le Rheyne and both together motivated me to plan a rebuild of SR as Sankt Philippe - short cut in here : SP- I'm still awaiting my Ancre monographie. It might be possible:

Dear Cederic, Hubac motivated me to read in here about the beautyful Le Reyne - so I did and I'm enthusiastic to start with my Heller SR.. But the Le Reyne looks too "dutchy" to me and the balkonys I do miss as a light nearly pre-Rokkoko feature. So I'll await the receive of the new Ancre-monography about the Sank Philippe of 1693: Perchance I'll have to overstretch the arrangement of the gunports, but I'm not so courageous to close the gunports and relocate them as you have been. And by this I could try to experimentade with a (dove)blue than red based decoration. So we'll be three altogether with our SR builts!