SkiBee
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I tried to bend the brass bar without annealing it first, did not work at all well, so I went and bought a micro-torch. Heated the brass bar up on an old ceramic tile which worked very well to insulate and prevent damage to anything else. The bar now bends well. I am finding out that my small needle nose pliers do not have small enough tips for this small kind of work. My initial effort to make the eye resulted in to small of an eyelet to insert a tooth pick as a handle, so I had to pry it open and make it bigger. Finding out that you should only heat up the amount of rod that you will need to work with. As I was making the eyelet, I kept bending the rest of the bar. As I test fitted the brass arm with the center board and then the spine, I noticed that there was a major interference with the slot that the brass arm was to travel in. I chose to cut it open more with a knife to hopefully prevent breaking the thin spine. No luck, broke two parts off on the Port side spine and one part on the Starboard spine, glued them back on and waited. I tried the fit again and found out that I needed to remove more wood, ended opening up the slot by about a good 1/8 inch. Now that I did that, I noticed that the end of the brass rod that fits in the little hole of the center board needed a little more hook than being a straight elbow. Was afraid to try and bend it while it was in the center board due to the thinness of the center board wood. So, I removed it from the board and bent just a little more hook in the rod end, and very very carefully inserted it back into the board. Note that I painted the center board prior to gluing the spines together, I couldn’t see how I could get a good paint job on the board while it was assembled. I think this was a good idea. Glued the Port spine on the other spines and trapping the center board. Seems like my wood glue was a little two watery since the port spine started to curl. It was a challenge to get the spine correctly placed before the glue was too tacky. Broke off another two pieces during this process. CAUTION: the port and starboard spines a very thin and easily break.
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- muscongus bay lobster smack
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As I was finishing up the MS 18th Century Longboat, I noticed that the “third in a series of progressive model tutorials” by David Antscherl became available. My first build was the MS ‘Lowell Grand Banks Dory’ and it was a great learning experience. Then I built the MS ‘Norwegian Sailing Pram’ which was the second model in the series, it to was a great learning tool. So now I’m going to try the Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack based on a positive experience with the first two of the tutorial series. I inventoried the contents of the box and all of the parts appear to be there, except that the two ‘Cabin Bulkhead side guides’ were missing from the sheet. It looks like they might have fell during processing the kit and bagging the laser cut sheets. I think I will be able to make the parts from the left over stock since they are simple. Also, sheet 8 was labeled sheet 7. Spine & Centerboard Instructions Step 1 says to start with the Starboard Spine piece and the three center spine pieces. It calls out sheet 1, 2, 3 but sheet 2 has the Port Spine piece which confused me for a few minutes since I wasn’t sure if I should use the Port or Starboard spine piece. Looking at both the Port and Starboard (sheet 5 not 2) spine pieces and the picture on page 4, I confirmed that I should use the Starboard spine piece on sheet 5, this way the laser markings for the future bulkhead pieces was on the outside of the spine. The red sheet call out for Step 1 of the instructions should reference Sheets 1, 3, 5. The starboard spine and center spine pieces glued up nicely, I did use clamps to hold them together while the glue set instead of a weight as the instructions suggests.
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I started to reduce the keel to 1/8 inch thick but I wanted to check midship template to see how much I should remove around the keel. However, I noticed a problem, there was a gap on the starboard side when I held the template centered on the top and bottom centerline. The gap between the side of the hull and the template was a little more than a 1/16 inch. Also, there was a gap between the top of the hull and the template a little less than a 1/16 inch. The port side was a fair match to the template. I measured the beam at midship and it matches the plans. I can’t move the keel centerline to the starboard since there is not enough material. Has anyone had a similar problem and what did you do?
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So, I’m going to try my hand at a solid hull, it’s a little scary since I’m not a very good whittler. About 20 years ago I bought a wooden boat model that was a solid hull and I could never get it started since I had no clue on how to finish the hull. This is actually the second model I bought, but I kept putting off to gain more overall experience by building the MS Grand Banks Dory, Norwegian Pram and the 18th Century Longboat. Reading build logs about this boat made it a little less intimidating so here it goes. I have learned that it is important to inventory all the parts of a kit at the very beginning and it appears that there a couple of metal parts missing so I’ll contact Model Expo. As some of the instructions say, inventorying the parts also helps to familiarize you with them, their names and where they are installed. {I've edited the initial posting to remove the work I did on my original hull}
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Finished, I did enjoy this build and learned a lot about planking and rigging. I am glad that I built the Grand Banks Dory and the Norwegian Pram prior to this boat, but it is a good third boat to build since you learn additional skills in planking and rigging. It was not easy for a novice but well worth the challenge. My biggest challenge was working with the small size with by fat and clumsy fingers especially rigging and tying knots. Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions, they did help, please keep it up especially for us beginners. I’m torn to start as my next build the New York Phantom Pilot Boat or the new MS Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack, the third in the learning series by David Antscherl. I’m very intimidated by carving a solid hull vs planking.
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- model shipways
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@Nirvana ; I appreciate and agree that we our own worst critics. But, I want to learn how to do better at rigging, I've read information on planking and general model boat building but have not found any information on rigging. If you know of any source please let me know. Does anyone have a reference to a blog thread or any other reference on methods to terminate ship model lines?
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I’m proceeding with the rigging of the Longboat; it is a lot harder than the Norwegian Pram since the lines are so thin. I’m having problems with seizing the ends of the lines, they don’t look like a real line termination, just some ratty knots. Does anyone have a reference to a blog thread or any other reference on methods to terminate ship model lines?
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So I'm back to working the Longboat since I finished the Norwegian Pram. It was a good learning experience, especially for the rigging which was simple but a great first try at rigging. So I have the mast installed and spars installed and some rigging done. The rigging has been a challenged but it's another good learning experience. Suggestions always welcome.
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Great pintels, I painted my oar locks and hooks with some Testors copper, it’s what I had
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Your build looks amazing, so much better then mine. Had the same problem with the instructions.
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JohnN - I used Minwax pre-stain then I used Minwax Golden Oak, I wiped it off fairly soon after I applied it. I did practice on the bottom of some thwarts.
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- Norwegian Sailing Pram
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Fantastic job planking the port side!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your planks came out right on the line. Keep up the great work.
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bthoe - Thanks Don't disagree with your assessment, I did learn a lot from this second in a series build. A number of issues are those with an initial issue (beta version), such as the different parts list and missing parts, plank bevel lines, and such. That is were the strength of build logs come in, to help other builders with issues we find and/or recommendations. However, I don't think some of my frustrations could have easily been taken care of with a to scale drawing. Keep on building
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Looks great, I had the same problem with the build board as you, I glued both transom holders. It really could use more molds, I think that would prevent the bending of the planks when putting rubber bands around them while the glue dries.
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I received the block and reduced the size like the instructions recommended. Then put it all together and finished. I do think this is a Great second build following the Grand Banks Dory for us beginners, I would rate idea a 5 out of 5. However, Model Shipways does need to improve the instructions with more up-close pictures of the build so we beginners can understand the detail better. And the most important, they DO need to add a couple of views of to-scale drawings similar to what they did in the Dory instructions. Until they improve the instructions, I would rate this model a 2 out of 5 for beginners due to the lack of detail in the instructions.
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HELP again, between the lines provided don't match the few notes in the instructions, I don't know what line goes where in the rigging. Does anyone know of some of the build logs that go into detail on the rigging?
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whitejamest - thanks for the info. I glued two 'eyes' on the band and they seem to work ok. On the boom, I cut a 1/8" piece of brass tube from my Pram kit and glued that to the band at the lower end of the mast.
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I did start the build of the Norwegian Sailing Pram and I’m almost done but the kit was missing a part so I’m waiting to receive it in order to finish it. Started building the masts and spars, the hardest part was cutting the jaws for the gaff, they are not pre-cut and had to cut them out of left-over stock. I failed a number of times drilling the hole and cutting them out of stock. Then I noticed that the extra ‘knees’ left in the stock I was cutting the jaws out of were about the shape of a jaw, so I used them for the jaws. Drilled the hole in them and then cut them out, sanded them to a ‘similar shape’ of the jaws and glued them on. I think they look ok and it was easier then trying to make them on my own. I do need to figure out and practice making small parts like the jaws but not now. I tried to make the iron bands for the mast but I can’t drill the holes in the small (1/32” x 1/64”) piece of brass strip. HELP, does anyone have a recommendation on how to drill a hole in that small of brass strip?
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Finishing attaching the sail to the spars. This went well and I found out that it does help to put a little glue on each half hitch while lacing the sail to the gaff spar. While the glue on the knots was drying, I went to build up the traveler but found out that another part was missing from the kit, the sheet block. I reviewed the two parts lists and neither one had the block on it. So while I wait for Model Expo sends me a block, I’ll go work on a plastic Spitfire plane model.
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Look for a "Small Trimming Plane" or a micro plane, they are available from any hardware store or online. Good luck on your oars.
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The only problem I came across with the mast installation is that hole for the back stays was not 90deg to the halyard holes, halyard cleat and the leather chafing pad but I’m probably the only one that will notice. Since I had added one wrap of sail cloth around the lower small diameter of the mast, it fit nice and snug into the Mast Step. On the forward stay line, I tried to whip the spice of the line, it looks good but was difficult to do with such fine line. I had used some of the 0.3mm diameter thread for the whip. For the remainder of the line splices, I used the alternate method in the instructions and I think it looked just fine.
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Started to attach the sail to the gaff spar, GOOF, as I was tightening the thread at the Leech end, POP, the thread broke through the thin wall where the hole was drilled. Between drilling the hole at a small angle and sanding to much to make the spar round, I ended up with a very thin hole wall on one side and that is were the thread broke through. Actually, the tip of the spar then broke completely off. I tried to glue the tip back on but it was not actually inline laterally. So I’ll move on to installing the mast while the glue on the spar dries. When the glue dried, I drilled a new hole inside of the break, then completed to tie the two ends of the sail to the gaff spar. Started to lace the sail to the spar and POP, the spar broke at the halyard eye due to a thin wall of the holes. I glue the spar back together, as it dried I went on to install the mast in the boat.
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Buildup of the Mast I started with the square mast blank, drilled the holes for the halyard sheave and downhaul eye and started the rounding with my new plane which worked well. Then I sanded it round but I had the same problem as I did with the spars, it ended up oval rather then round. I had to stop sanding to make it round as the area around the holes was getting to thin. First mistake, the area around the pre-drilled hole was so thin from sanding that I broke off the tip of the mast at that point. I just drilled two holes down from the new top of the mast. I simulated the sheave by using the tip of a small round file. I stained the mast as I did the spars with a light oak, as I was wiping the stain off, Mistake two, I broke off part of the downhaul cleat. I just glued on a thin piece of wood on what was left of the cleat to create the t-shape. The third Mistake was sanding the bottom part of the mast smaller than the hole in the Mast Step. I just glued one wrap of sail material around were the mast interfaces with the mast step, worked great. I also used a piece of sail material to simulate the leather chafing pad as I had used it to simulate leather on the oars. The instructions say to create the downhaul eye from “brass wire”, but I found that the eye was to thin and would bend as I proceeded. So for all the eyes I used the 1/32” brass rod, which worked great. I did look through the rest of the instruction and could not find another use of the 1/32” rod, so I felt confident that I could use all of what was left for the eyes. When I test fitted the gaff to the mast it was very loose since I had sanded to much off the mast to get it round. I thought about building a new mast but instead I just glued a thin piece of wood on the gaff gooseneck.
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The assumptions I made and how I proceeded to build the Mast > Purpose of the Shroud Eye: this eye only shows up on the schematic on page 5, there is no reference in the text. There is an asterisk that states, “See instructions for alternate fitting”. I could only think of two things this eye could be used for; a guide for the halyard before it goes through the mast halyard hole, or to tie the back stays to. But the instructions cover installing two straps for the back stays. So, I decided to leave the shroud eye off for now until I get a response from my questions or I find a need later in the instructions. > In regard to drilling the two holes at the top of the mast, I think that the person that wrote the instructions was giving us two options; use just the laser pre-drilled hole for the halyard line to pass through, or drill and extra hole to simulate a halyard sheave. I went with the two holes and simulated a halyard sheave; I painted the inside a gold/copper to simulate the sheave and put in two nail heads 90deg to the sheave to simulate the bolt to hold the sheave. > The instruction doesn’t say how far down the mast to install the straps for the back stays and they are not indicated on the page 5 schematic. I installed them just below were the shroud eye should have been.
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Welcome Bud I to have build many a plastic model and tried my hand at a wood boat many years ago but put it away shortly after I started. I recommend the following thread on this web site: New to ship modelling? But what do you build first? I am a big Novice when it comes to wooden boat models. I've built the Grand Banks Dory and learned so much from it. I'm building the Norwegian Sailing Pram now and continue to learn a lot. I had started another boat when I decided I needed to back up and learn and practice on a easier and cheaper model. Good luck and as has been stated above, start a build page for any boat you build as you can get a lot of help from others and improve your learning curve.
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