allanyed
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Thanks David For whatever reason, I completely forgot that the underside of the forward axletree was rounded at least part of the length at some time. The reason I say at least part of the way is that the contemporary drawing I posted above shows part of the forward axletree to be rectangular in cross section. The strap configuration seems to indicate the bottom to be curved for at least a portion. Do you happen to know an approximate time span when this was the norm? Don't know where my head was and forgot to check TFFM. Ron's suggestion makes sense or possibly slightly different as in the below rough sketch Thank you all!! Allan
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There is what appears to be a metal strap under the brackets and forward axle. The contemporary drawing shows it curving such that it would wrap under the round portion of the axle, but it is not round where it crosses the brackets so not possible as far as I can determine. I have drawn a possible solution, but welcome any ideas on alternative solutions. Again, another view would be helpful, in this case from the bottom, but I have never seen one so can only assume the width of these possible straps is about the same as the bracket thickness which is the same as the diameter of the bore. The carriage in question is for a 24 pounder long gun circa 1775 when Armstrong Frederick patterns were the most common in use. Allan
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Pat and Craig, Thank you very much! The rebated description of the drawing seems to be spot on Craig. But while in the stowed position, the carriage can still swing in an arc. It can be secured with lines, but having a pivot point and the rear trucks it would be more prone to rotating than wheeled carriages with their four trucks. Still, this may be the answer. If nothing else, this topic has opened my eyes to possible solutions to a number of problems. Next post is another conundrum I have run into. Allan
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This is great Gary. I see a horseshoe bracket as well than I had never noticed before. This is a huge help, thank you! Allan
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Welcome to MSW Andrew. This topic has not had an entry in 8 months do you may not get a response. You can PM the builder and ask him directly, or if you want to have more members give input on the netting brackets, do a post in the Ship's Deck Furniture forum. Again, welcome aboard. It would be really nice if you would post a little introduction about yourself in the new member forum here at MSW. Allan
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I thought that might the case as well Pat, but how is the fighting head secured to the spirketting (or deck if that was the case) I drew in a horizontal bolt as if this was how it was secured to the bulwark but that is only my best guess. If the shorter pin penetrated down into a deck frame that would indicate to me this was how it was all secured, but it ends on top of the deck planking. In the end, unless someone is building this at 1:24 or larger, it would be barely be noticeable. Allan
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This is a great drawing confirming this is how it was done. Exceptions there may be, but the majority of evidence points out this feature. Be it scratch or kit, it really is easy to accomplish the thinning of the wales strakes. This is also a great example for showing how all the strakes end at the rabbet, not coming to a point short of the rabbet, Thanks for posting this Martes. Allan
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Welcome to MSW. It would be very kind if you would post a little introduction and maybe a name we can call you besides SW073 (if you wish😀) in the new member forum here at MSW. Again fὰilte gu MSW Allan
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Ciao Adri I used to spend a lot of time in San Casciano (VP), Bologna, and Cattolica several times a year for work for many many years. The last few years were spent mostly near MIlano in the area of Treviglio. I remember a LOT of great restaurants along Via Emilia between Bologna and Modena and up in the hills northwest of Bologna as well. My wife and two of her girlfriends spent two weeks in Toscana last year going to different homes in the countryside to learn new cooking recipes and had a fantastic time. We LOVE your country! Allan
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Hi J, Just tuned in to your build. This is REALLY good work for an experienced builder let alone a wood model first timer like yourself. It is great that you went with realistic gratings as they are so noticeable on the upper decks. For the future, keep in mind that the grating battens run fore and aft and the ledges athwartships. Again, your build is impressive! Allan
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Welcome back home to MSW Alexander! Looking forward to seeing your latest carvings! Allan
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Welcome to MSW Adrian. You mention the city of Ferrari. Are you speaking of Modena or Maranello? I have fond memories of eating tagliatelle with funghi porcini at Trattoria Tagliatella in Modena. If this area is your home, you are in a part of the world with some of the finest cuisine to be had. Again, welcome to MSW! Allan
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My thoughts exactly. Thanks Keith
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And now a question on carronade carriages that have slides, not trucks. I have searched and searched and can only find side view drawings contemporary to about 1800. I cannot find any top view or end view to show how the pivot is set up or where the metal bracket sits. Something has to be anchored in which the pivot pin sits, but I have had no success on finding details yet. Also, what is purpose of what looks like a shorter pin inboard of what I think is the pivot pin. I am guessing it is a locking pin when the carronade is in a straight line and does not swing freely when not in use. Any help would be very much welcomed. In the drawing below I have added red lines showing what I THINK may be a solution. TIA Allan
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Hi BE Unfortunately the same goes for the Caruana volumes which many consider the most complete single source of RM Ordnance from the 17th into the 19th centuries. Hi Chris, Could you please give us the names of some of these books that show the built up trucks, it would be really appreciated. I prefer the look of these built up trucks but so far have had no success in finding any source based on contemporary information that shows this for the 17th, 18th or early 19th centuries. That you offer options in your kits is really a great idea. Allan
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Your build continues to be of the highest order, kudos. Have you seen the recent posts on carriage and trucks starting at post #66? https://modelshipworld.com/topic/34538-gun-carriage-questions/page/3/#comments You may find it interesting. Thanks for continuing to share your build. Allan
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Totally forgot about that drawing Gregory, thanks for the reminder. Thanks to all of you for your input. Barring any other contemporary drawings or models showing otherwise, I am comfortable with single piece trucks for the 17th century through the early 19th century. That drawing shows some interesting differences between the carriages of 1775 for Armstrong-Fredericks and the drawing of the carriages circa 1730 for the original Armstrong pattern found in Caruana Volume II. These are details not likely to be seen at our most common scales, but interesting none the less, especially for anyone doing a large scale gun and carriage project. Allan
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THANK YOU GARY! I am leaning to single piece trucks even into the late 18th century barring contemporary based information to the contrary. Of major concern is that the trucks on the cannon on modern day Victory all seem to be made of more than one piece. Considering the research that must have gone into her various rebuilds and upkeep I can't help but think that somewhere there is information indicating such construction. Thanks again Allan
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Gregory - Thanks for your post.😀 I fully realize having Victory available to visit is a true treasure. But, it does seem that there are a number of things in her modern version that are different than those contemporary to her years in active service. Some examples --In the case of guns, some carriages have four steps on the brackets while others have five. Assuming she is representing her appearance at the time of Trafalgar I believe there would have been cheeks on the brackets. Some of the hardware appears to be missing on some of the carriages. Note that the deck planking may be different than her original construction in the photo as well. This photo was identified as being on the upper gun deck so wouldn't the outer strakes of planking have been top and butt or anchor stock rather than straight? Allan
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Hi Druxey, I have volume II but the drawings I have seen of trucks appear to all be single pieces. The text on page 360 in Volume II only mentions that the thickness was the same as the thickness of the brackets which we know was the same dimension as the diameter of the bore. There is no mention of twin disks. Reading through 1795 sea service carriage on page 379, I do not see any mention of the trucks being constructed in pieces bolted together. I just did a quick flip through again and cannot find anything in drawings or text that indicate trucks were made of twin disks or other type of multiple piece construction. I realize very little was without variation in the ships of those days so will not be surprised if multiple piece trucks existed. Allan
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Thanks Alan, but I am still not getting it. This is on me, not you, for sure. The long bolt passes through top, middle and bottom block as well as what looks like a metal bracket. What part is anchored and where is it anchored so the carriage can pivot on this pin? If anyone has a top view that would really help. Looking at several modern photos, they look nothing like the contemporary drawings, but surely there are some that are accurate reproductions if complete drawings are not available. Thanks again Alan, MUCH appreciated. Allan
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Thanks Richard! Do you know what years this information would be appropriate and does he give contemporary sources? I can only find that he has written books on HMS Victory so it would not be appropriate for my 1730 project, but, this is still very interesting and useful. Victory covered 42 years before being cut to a second rate. Does he write that this construction applied to her Armstrong Frederick carriages in 1765 and/or the early and late style Blomefield carriages after they came into use? Thanks again, I really appreciate your help! Allan
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Cheap table saws are not famous for accurate cuts, but for planking, if you have a thickness sander, then one these might work out for you even if the planks vary coming off the saw. If you post some pics of the saws you are considering, hopefully some members have one or more of these and can make recommendations based on their own experience. The old adage probably applies, you get what you pay for. If you plan to use this for a lifetime, consider investing in a Byrnes saw, it is likely the best available anywhere. Allan
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Hi Glenn But, the pin does not appear go into anything to hold it while the carriage would pivot, unless the bottom most wooden? piece is anchored to what looks like a metal bracket. Then again, where/how is the bracket anchored to something solid. I am sure there is a simple explanation but a picture would sure help.😀 Allan
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She looks fantastic and those carronade barrels look great! The mounting for the carronades look really good as well, very similar to the drawing ZAZ6989 at RMG. Looking at that drawing as well as the design in the model, I still cannot determine how the unit was supposed to pivot. Was there a pivot pin or some such? It would not be seen on the model so inconsequential, but I was curious how this was done. I cannot make sense of the construction of the muzzle end of the mounting with only the side view. Hopefully there is a top view to be found. Allan
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