glbarlow

Where did you find the curved pieces for the cap rails? I cannot locate them in my kit.

Surely I'm missing something in my Amati Vanguard kit. There should be 6 curved pieces that are part of the cap rails 2 curving from the poop deck 2 near midships, and 2 from the forecastle. I see them installed on other Amati Vanguard build logs but I cannot find them in my kit or on the plans showing the parts. Can someone point me where to find them in this kit? I must be looking right past them, its quite frustrating knowing they must be there somewhere

I have both the Byrnes saw and disc sander. They are more than worth the cost, spending money on any other saw is a waste. I find many uses for both and frankly don't know what I'd do without them or how I did anything before I got them. There are 4 pages of replies as testament to how good they are. The answer to you question is yes, you absolutely need them.

Continuing to making progress. The Vanguard is now fully decked and the main deck is finished. Next step is the various rails on the forecastle and poop deck plus the cap rails and finishing up the poop deck furniture. As you can see in the photos for now I'm not planning to add the masts, so I have stubs cut to finish off the mast holes. These aren't glued in so I can come back some day and add them if I want. Its simply a case of not having a place to put a finished 3 ft long, 3 foot high model. Plus I've been there, done that with my 7 prior models. This one is just about building a '74 on a relaxed pace without the extreme attention to detail and accuracy of models like my Pegasus. I deviated from the plans with the support beam for the poop deck. Like I had to do with the beams where the boats will sit and the finished beam for the forecastle, I cut a notch in the bulwarks the exact right height and width required to match the beam and decking. I added a rope to the wheel that wasn't mentioned in the plans. Not sure why, now that the poop deck is installed, it will never be seen again - but I feel better about myself :-) I also decided on simple breech rope rigging for the cannon - I've done the full blocks and tackle on my prior models, but it required ordering custom blocks. The ones supplied with the kit are way out of scale for this purpose in my opinion, with as little as the cannon are seen and this 1/72 scale of this model I am content with the simpler approach. If I didn't mention it earlier, the decking is 4mm ash supplied by Hobby Mill. I like the its bright natural color, I've used this on my last 4 models and will continue to use it for any future models. The discoloring is more pronounced in the photos than it actually is, this comes from the water based Poly I use to seal and finish all painted surfaces. It also doesn't shine like it appears as a result of the camera's flash. The bulwarks were done with swiss pear, also from Hobby Mill mostly because the 4mm width seemed more to scale - but then it was painted red so this expensive wood's nice color is lost. Still the right choice - the 5mm walnut just looked to big (its used on the gun deck, but that really can't be seen much now). The cabin bulwark matches the color scheme I chose (or made up I guess) but again its lost from view with the poop deck installed. Its a really big model, with all the wood, pain and glue now on it, its also getting pretty heavy. I'm glad I modified the hull way back in the beginning to better anchor the mounting screws. If I'd just followed the plans and put them just through the keel the model would have split off the mounting base a long time ago.

Turns out I needed only about 25 copper plates to finish - so about $50 and 3 weeks later I've finished the coppering and have plenty of copper for some other project. It's weird that I had enough for the starboard but not enough for the port. If anything I was more efficient on the port. Oh well, its done. The ship is very heavy now. I've finished the upper gun deck - as far as I'm coning to finish it. I've decided I've built out enough cannon kits in my life so only those gunport that didn't havet lids have cannon mounted, plus a few extra for whatever you might be able to see once the main deck is installed. The gunports with lids are closed and will remain that way. I did all the cleaver work of open ports on Pegasus. Vanguard is enroute with no imminent threat of attack so the ports are closed:-) If you look close at the photos you'll see some plywood spacers between the outer hull and inner bulkhead. These insure both hulls have some extra support and were helpful in holding things steady when the gunports were cut. The cross beams that will remain exposed by the main deck were a bit of a challenge. There is no "kit" way of mounting them, basically they are force fit between the bulkheads which is fine if you ship is built perfectly, unfortunately mine isn't so I had to sand a few to make them squeeze between the bulkheads. Gluing, aligning to the plan measurements, and not wrecking the bulkheads took some pre-positioning and dry-fitting to get it all right. I did two things to help myself. I did the measurement work to determine where the ship's boats tie downs need to be and drilled those eyelets in before installing the beam. The cradles are a bit tall, I figured I'd break one in the remaining build process so I'll not install those to later. I wasn't comfortable with the "squeeze fit" for the beam that supports the forecastle of the main deck. So using the stock the beams came from I created a new beam that was long enough that I could cut notches (very carefully to get the right depth) into the bulkheads. I'm now confident this beam will support the weight and any pressure I might apply during the rest of the build. It also took a bit of sanding on the edges of the beams after installation to ensure the main deck is flush to the deck amidships. If there is one absolute of modeling it is that dry-fitting is an essential skill as in pre-planning what is easier now that later (which the instructions or plans never offer) like the eyelets for the ship's boat's tie downs. It's not that it can't be done later, its just that its so much easier to do some things before installation (or before the installation of something else that obstructs the path getting to it). So now on to the main deck. My two year break is apparently over.

Looks like I'm back in business. Cornwall has shipped the copper I need. Once in I can finish the coppering and move on to something more interesting. I put a keel board (I've been gone so long I've forgotten the proper terms) on the keel to finish off the copper there using a 5mm strip of hull planking and stained it natural. Looks much neater than just wrapping the copper. There is no good way I found to finish off the bow and stern except a single width of copper plating. (that's what the book says to do anyway). I have to say I'm proud of a lot of the work I've done on past ships, the Pegasus especially, but I'm not particularly proud or thrilled with my copper work. Its on (mostly) and it looks ok, but not something I'll EVER repeat. It single handedly stopped me from building ship models for 2 years until I finally decided to just do it (maybe inspired by Nike commercials) but I don't recommend it. Though I'd done it on my much smaller Pickle I think there is enough copper on the Vanguard to (if converted to 14 gauge wire) to wire my work room. Yay... I'd post a photo but the port side looks like the starboard side above...

Keith, Thank you for the link. I had searched Cornwall's site and failed to locate the copper plating. With your link I was able to place the order, I appreciate it!

This is depressing, just noticed a lot of my photos are gone and I can't find my Pegasus build log - it was the best thing I've done. Admittedly it was a while ago, but still sad to see it gone.

Thanks - I sent them and Cornwall an email along with Amati. Seems like something you should be able to find. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

I have but no response.

I came up about two rows short of port side copper plating for my Amati Victory Models Vanguard. I had just enough to finish the starboard, I don't know why I came up short on the port side, I had very little waste. Anyone know where I can get about half a sheet of port side copper plating for this model?

I'm back after a 2 year absence. My model has been just sitting in the work room with me looking at the copper free port side. I finally got back to it, got all the way to the last two rows of copper plate....and ran out. I don't understand this. I had plenty of extra for starboard but not enough to finish the port side. Anyone know where I can get about a half sheet of port side copper for Amati's Victory Model Vanguard?

It's been a while since I've had an update, and this isn't much of one except to celebrate a small victory, not the big HMS Victory, but a small HMS Vanguard related victory. I've finally managed to complete the coppering...of the starboard side... I was fortunate to have enough plates to finish, earlier in is this log I noted I ripped off 5 rows at the bow to do it over, glad there were enough extra in the kit to allow for mistakes like this. I'm not excited about turning it over to see the bare port side I now have to do, so I procrastinated by completing the rudder. Interestingly the brass straps provide in the kit do not appear to be designed to fit over a coppered rudder, the folding points for the two 90 degree turns to wrap around either side are 5 mm wide, the width of the wood, but not with two copper plates attached to the sides. Doesn't matter for me anyway as I always choose to use thick black paper, easier to do and frankly for me it looks better once I glue it on and finish it with water based poly painted lightly on to harden and season it a bit. Ok, off to the port side. Until this is done I can't get back to the wood working part I like to do. I have to admit though, as big a pain as it is to do it does look pretty nice on the ship.

I understand the decision, same one I made for this build. Difference is I'm stuck on copper plating. Just so boring and tedious I haven't been near my vanguard for more than a month. At his rate I'll be done in four years as well. I keep looking at my Pegasus for inspiration but it isn't forthcoming. Great job Len, nice log ang excellent model. I'll watch for your next one.

Any thoughts on copper plates vs copper tape on hulls? I'm finding copper plating my HMS Vanguard going very slowly and not especially exciting. While I'm sure everyone would say the plates are more accurate and show better, I'm considering plating one side and taping the other. It will be displayed in such a way only one side can be seen, so that's not an issue. Part of my question is how well the tape conforms to the curves and bends of the hull (without kinking), how well it adheres, and how easy and fast it goes on compared the the tedious work of the individaul plates? Does using a ponce wheel come help (the Vanguard plates are only embossed, not actually engraved)? I realize this is copping out to a large degree, but its not a part of the process I enjoy, I want to make it back to the wood and decks sometime before I get old

I broke the code, at least for me anyway. My trick was to quickly "acknowledge" the change from straight on the keel to the upward and inward curve of the bow by laying in a short row trimed to allow for the taper. I had done that the first time but one I waited to after the third row to adjust, and two I tried to match the trimming to the space and was not happy with the results (the perfectionist in me again). The tiles are so thin its easy to overlap the tiles a little bit, the key there being to overlap the upper row over the lower which is trimmed to be larger than the space required - then you don't even see it and it looks like a good trim job. Just takes some planning (Iused and index card and pencil to determine the natural flow of the lines, "stealer" length and width and curve) to get the trimming right. I rebuilt the 5 rows (just the bow, not the whole ship, its all good 3-5 inches back from the stem) I tore off earlier today so I should be good to go from here. I get a little nuts about these things, but in fairness, though 7 ships completed, this is only the second I coppered, the Pickle being the first and a long time ago and a lot smaller. Pictures to follow, I want to make some more progress. Thanks for the encouragement and help.

No worries, I'll sort it all out. I started today by tearing off 5 rows at the bow area. It's going better already, just have to figure out the curves. Now I have to hope the kit included plenty of extra plates, I've definitely wasted more than a few.

Thanks Rusty, it's the bow that's giving me fits. Did you work from the keel up the whole way, or come from both bottom up and top down? Yours looks great, it looks almost as though there were three distinct "belts:" the top 2 rows, a middle straight, and a bottom curved?

Thanks Rusty. I've started the coppering, I really don't like it. I will take me a while. I can't quite sort out how to account for the curve of the hull, not quite as simple as tapering planks. I still may go for the aluminum foil route I joked about earlier, not I'm think it may not be such a bad idea. This is my 8th model ship, but the only one I coppered was the little HM Pickle. It would take 10 of them to equal the amount of copper needed for the Vanguard. Oh well, one plate at a time...

Last update before the coppering – really I’m serious this time. Unless I go off book again and build the ships boats…. Here is the completed stern including the galleys. It takes a lot to get to this point. I think the design and plans support the work, though glad I don’t need to rely on instructions anymore, they are pretty thin on description here. Fortunately there is an extra booklet that comes with the Vanguard laying out the hull build. It is far more valuable than the instructions. For any new builders my advice is learn now how to use the plans and don’t depend solely on the written instructions, in the end its far less frustrating and more rewarding. Also while I'm offering unsolicited advice, invest in good quality paint brushes. I use Loew Cornell http://www.hofcraft.com/loew-cornell-3000-series-comfort-grip-brushes.html brushes, my multiple 18/0 and 10/0 spotters got a lot of work in the building of the stern and galley. I like the spotters and shaders more than the round sizes for detail work. Something I didn’t mention n the last post but is worth passing on. As careful as I was with the gun port pattern alignments on both sides, they did not wind up even with the center keel and bulwark structure across the back. They were even with each other, effectively that meant a slight curve of the stern. This is reinforced by the multiple small pieces that make up the side galleys having a bit of angle to them. That would be no problem for the walnut ply piece that makes up most of the stern, it bends easy enough, however the stern decoration is cast from a molded plastic, it has absolutely no bend at all. I ended up having to fit a shim to bring the rear portion of the galleys near equal to the center point of the center keel portion of the stern so as not to break the plastic decoration, meaning flat across the back, not curved……….ok I did that after I broke the plastic decoration trying to get that slight bend. Fortunately it was a clean break and I easily (if angrily) fixed it and touched it up to be invisible. I was impressed with how 30+ brass etched and ply parts come together so wel to form the galleys. The alignment of parts all look right when its done. I had to make two changes to the plans for it to work – which probably are my fault somehow and not that of the plans. The wood trim below the “rails” is supposed to be 1x1mm like the other three. I had to use 1/x2mm otherwise the lower columns would not have line up with the windows. I also placed the three little decorative pieces differently, they wouldn’t fit where the plans call them. That’s minor stuff – overall the designer did well with this subassembly. Also, the soft cast metal pieces I didn’t use on the stern did come in handy as the two lowest trim pieces. Wood trim wouldn’t have made the both front to back and top to bottom bending required to fit here. Off to do the coppering…unless I can figure out some way to avoid it once again.

Just one photo to show for this update; the work though in this one photo represents a whole lot of hours to get here. I decided that since I’d have the ship in odd positions (e.g. the bow into a large cushion on the floor and the stern held between my knees), I’d go ahead and finish the stern before flipping it over to do the coppering, or maybe I was just delaying the tedious coppering a while longer. I don’t know about everyone else but the stern has been a challenge for every ship I’ve built. Somehow the clever plans from the designer don’t seem to quite work out exactly as drawn for me. I’ve had to do a few modifications, design alterations and planning of my own to make the ship come together back here at the stern. Not a lot, but enough to make it interesting. As careful as I build the frames and keel and align gun port patterns, its here even a millimeter or two off shows up. I’m making more of it than it is, but for those taking any guidance from this log I’ll just say this: Patience, thinking it through, and not worrying if the designer’s plans don’t quite make sense or work out as drawn, is required on your part. Because you can make your own adjustments to make it work and be just fine. First up in the “it’s my model I’ll do what I want” was following my own whimsy on the painting, I like Caldercraft’s French Blue so aside from yellow ochre it’s the primary color. I’m sure there is much more detail I could have done to painting this; flesh tones, more colors, etc. But frankly at some point I’ve had enough of 18/0 brushwork plus as Captain I decided the crew had better things to do that make my stern work too “fancy.” (Really though, I just used up my eyeball allotment for close-up work.) I may have said this before, but I love Caldercraft paints. I use an airbrush for the brass etchings but brush paint everything else, the black covers in one coat (though I always use two) and the yellow ochre, red ochre, French Blue or matt white never require more than two coats. Plus I think the red and yellow ochre are so spot-on for the right shade for my tastes, and finally it covers so easily for the teeny tiny touch up work I invariably have to do. I like it so much I order it from the UK since I haven’t found a US source for it. As for ignoring the plans: They call for using the cast metal, below the columns, below the name plate, and even attached to the top of the handrails, that looked so heavy and so out of scale to me I ignored it choosing to put 1x1mm trim below the columns, left over side-hull molding below the nameplate, and nothing on the hand rails, I like it much better than the cast metal, which also would have shown a seam had I used it since the provided pieces aren’t long enough. I’m going to finish off the side galley’s next and then I’ll really be out of things to do before the coppering phase. I realize I set myself up for possibly damaging some of this work while in the ship is upside down, but I was more concerned about damaging the copper. My objective (we’ll see) is to put the model on its final stand once the coppering is done and finish the ship from there. So there you have it…

Sounds like you're making great progress. I'm glad I pre-determined I wasn't doing masts this time around. I look forward to seeing your photos. This one looks great, I know how hard it is to get them looking that good.

Been a while since my last update and while it doesn't look like a lot has changed, it sure has taken a while to get here. I call this work "Copper Plate Avoidance" I'm doing everything I can to avoid turning the ship over and starting the copper plating. Thing is I've now run out of those things so the next step is to start the plating process, a process I would gladly outsource if I could. I wonder how it would look if I just got some aluminum foil out of the kitchen and...never mind. Putting the name on the stern would seem to be a simple task, but it isn't. It takes time and meticulous planning to get the letters on in a straight line and both equally and proportionately spaced all the while not putting down any excessive glue or messing up the yellow ochre painted brass etched letters. Its worth the time I think to get it right. I used the strip of brass I removed the letter from for the spacing. I used the attachment points on the strip and lined them up on the letter where it was detached from, it worked great as a guide, letter by letter, to keep them spaced properly. It doesn't help with the straight-line aspect though. As you can tell I’ve elected to close most of the hatches. My ship is under no current enemy threat and is buttoned up for making headway in heavy seas. While I know the crew with hammocks on these lower decks would like the fresh air, it is very cold in the North Atlantic so its best to keep them closed. So, 42 little boards cut for port hatches later along with 84 brass hinges and 84 eyelets first soaked in ‘Blacken It’ and 84 clove hitches tied on the eyelets and fitted into 84 hand drilled holes above the ports later – this is what it looks like. As I said last entry, no more ships of the line for me, too much repetitive work. However I must admit it looks pretty sharp. Tedium or not I still have to deal with the perfectionist in me, it’s a constant struggle . The silver line you see is the waterline marked, the last row of copper plates will cover the hull up to this point. So my next post will be of a coppered ship and with the holidays and the time it will take to do it plate by plate, it will be a while… Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas everyone.

Well it was nice I must admit to get some replies. Thanks guys. Alistar: In the case of the Vanguard kit, they are cast bronze trucks, so natural wasn't an option. I did find research when building the Pegasus that they were painted, but I'm sure many were left natural as well. Painting was largely the captain's choice and often depended on how personally wealthy he was since the admiralty provided little in that regard. This captain likes the trucks black (I'm thinking its a good thing I didn't decide on blue). Zyzut: Thanks, the stern color choices just came to me as I did it, in fact there was more white and I decided it needed more red so I repainted the white. The detail work with an 18/0 brush whiles a way the hours, I kind of enjoy it until I realize I'm obsessing over every tiny brush mark. At some point, its "put the brush down and go to bed dummy." Rusty: Thanks man, I appreciate hearing from one of the world's best modelers. Lou: I had very precise goals before; the Pegasus is as historically accurate as I could make it, the Fair American was built with exotic woods and not a single drop of paint, painting with wood I called it at the time. Your right, this time its just for enjoyment. No goals, while I'm naturally precise and detail oriented I'm not obsessing about it. I did a model with scaled planks, but worked so hard on the finish I couldn't see them after I painted it. Actually the Vanguard is scaled planks above the main wale. I did use an airbrush on the cannon using a jig I made for the barrels. I had paint day and also air brushed all the etched pieces white, yellow, red, or black depending on where it goes later as well as the cannon. However the hull, the stern decoration, and all wood parts are done by hand. I think the hull and wood in general really needs the brush strokes to look good. I wanted to build a ship of the line, but honestly this will be the last. I like frigates, both the lines and from a scale perspective. Frankly this is a cannon platform, not a ship. Plus its really really big, I still don't know where I'm going to put it when its done.

An update for the 2 or 3 people that look at this log. I guess I should give it up, there are better logs out there that go over each step of their build. I've been trying to show something a little different in an effort to possibly help others as I've been helped so much by logs I've read before and continue to do now. Oh well, I guess I'll keep posting updates. Six of one, half dozen of the other so the expression goes. The instructions say to copper then paint, I chose to first paint the hull before turning it over to copper the bottom. Easier to touch up paint than it is to not mess up copper was my reasoning. I always finish my paint work with a coat of Satin Water-Based Poly to protect it and harden it up. That creates a bit of shine, but it is far less noticeable when I'm not shooting a photo with a bright flash attached. I couldn’t get behind the Nelson Checker pattern of lining up the yellow stripes with the gun ports. I wanted to, even started taping it that way, but it just didn’t look good to me so I chose to follow the wales with the gold and black paint. Oh well, no museum quality historically accurate model for me this time I guess. But I’ll like it better sitting wherever it winds up setting. Tamiya masking tape is the best thing I ever discovered (by looking at logs on this site). Far more than standard blue painter’s tape it allows clean crisp lines to be matched up with no over-run. I have to do very little touch up work when I match up two colors like this, and where I do it is more likely my error than the tapes. Good stuff. You can get it on Amazon. To break things up I also chose my colors for the stern decoration, again ignoring instructions. I’m the captain of this ship, Nelson has moved on to bigger things. I also started on the cannon, the 12 pounders are done, the 9 pounders are still in progress, all sitting in my construction hanger, otherwise know as a cabinet. That's it for now.