Charter33

A quick up-date........
 
After a bit or re-organisation the workshop now has an area dedicated to the Triton build.
 

 
The first frame has now been completed. I'm thinking about adding some pegs (tree nails?) Assuming that these would have been about an inch in diameter on the original my calculations come out at a gnats whisker over 0.5 mm diameter. I'll try and source some brass wire and see how it goes.
 

 

 
I played safe and worked on a frame from the centre of the hull (0). It currently has excess material at the top which will be trimmed later, but in the meantime this provides support for the acrylic brace that I hope will prevent any movement in the wood.
 
I've also had a go at making a height gauge for transferring vertical measurements from the plan to the model.
 

 

 
 
Cheers for now,
 
Graham.

No apology necessary, Pav - sharing knowledge and experience is what this site is all about. I just wish I was in a position to be able to provide a fully informed answer!
My initial thought when considering what to say in reply was that although I've seen it mentioned by other builders I have never come across a piece of basswood, yet alone used it. A quick 'google', however, has revealed that basswood is another name for lime (which just goes to prove that you never stop learning, even in my profession and at my advanced years!), a timber I have used in the dim and distant past for carving. Luckily we are blessed with members on this site who do know their stuff so a respectful nod to Dan and thanks for fielding your question. I am in full agreement with his reply.
I'm using cherry for the first time on this model and have found it relatively easy to work and shape. I made the decision to use it based on the advice of other builders. It finishes nicely but a little care is needed when using power sanding tools, such as disc sanders, to avoid scorching and darkening especially on end grain. The same advice is true for many of the denser hardwoods. As for sourcing it - have a look at Surrey Timbers Ltd on-line site. I have mentioned them before in the 'UK Timber Suppliers' pages in the 'Wood Discussion'section.
Hope this helps - and I look forward to seeing progress with your build.
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
Now that the dust has settled on the start of a new school year I've managed devote a bit of time again to this project and have made some more progress ......
 
Shaping the fore and aft deadwoods was holding me up a bit as I tried to make sense of the various sectional profile drawings. My inexperience was evident as I tried to juggle the various profiles and much time was spent working through the other build logs in this section. They certainly helped, and then I came across and followed the link that Dan Vad mentioned in a post referring to his HMS Vulture build. This proved to be a great help and I can see myself visiting this regularly as my build continues - thank's Dan!
 
In the end you just have to dive in and have a go...
 

 
Using a combination of thin brass sheet and acrylic templates pinned to the aft deadwood the sides were reduced to the required shape.
 

 
My first attempt at tapering the lower end of the inner post was not as successful as I had hoped so a second had to be made.
 
The rebates were then cut in the stern post with a scalpel and lower area worked to match the ajoining components prior to being glued together.
 
A carving knife proved an effective way to cut the curving rebate in the stem and subsequent shaping of the fore deadwood. I expect there will be a bit more work ahead on these later.
 

 

 
At last we have a keel!
 

 

 

 
... and work begins on the frames ......
 

 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
 
The first step is often the hardest ….
 
I hope to undertake this challenge of building my first POF ship in order to develop my practical skills and learn new techniques - as well as ending up with a (hopefully) impressive final model.  I’ve been preparing for a month or so – downloading the plans for the keel, getting them printed and sourcing the wood.
My choice of timber is cherry for the keel and frames, maple for the false keel and other components further down the line and I also have some black walnut in store.
The timber as purchased:
 

 
A strip of each cut off, split and planed down to 8 mm.
 

 
Ready to start ….
 

 
The first component I decided to make was the aft deadwood.
Patterns cut out and glued onto the cherry with ‘Spray Mount’. I’ve found that this holds the paper in place well enough without leaving any residue on the surface once removed. A couple of times the paper lifted while a piece was being worked but this was spotted and dealt with before errors occurred.
 

 
After initial cutting out with a band saw edges were refined with a combination of a band facer and drum sander.
 


 
I have read about, and liked, the technique of enhancing wood joints with permanent marker pens and decided to experiment with black and brown pens on some off-cuts. To say the difference is subtle would be a wild exaggeration!  Blowed if I could tell the difference….
 

 
The pieces were glued together, cleaned up and the ‘steps’ marked prior to the waste wood being removed with chisels.
 


 
My first attempt. I’m leaving the final shaping to the sides until much more of the keel has been completed in order to try and get my head around how much wood needs to be removed.
 


 
I have also been working on making a building board.
 


Before I work on progressing further could someone confirm whether or not this project has been opened to new members again, please? I’m a bit confused by the message saying that it is on the ‘Forum’ front page and the one at the top of the ‘Cross section’ thread saying it’s temporarily closed.
 
In no way is the fact that this project has no big glossy box to smuggle through the back door while the Admiral isn’t looking, thus avoiding the inevitable questions of ‘how much?’ or ‘and where is it going to go when it’s finished’ has absolutely no bearing on my decision to get actively involved ….. honest…
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
Just finished the copper cladding!
I was struggling to see and apply some of the smaller cut plates needed to fill in gaps along the keel and waterline on the first side of the hull so I decided to invest in an illuminated head loupe.  I wish I'd bought one earlier as using it for the first time resulted in me having to re-work several areas as I was not happy with the gaps between some of the plates already in place.
 

 
Also in this picture is the most useful tool I found to hold plates in position for marking out and then positioning whole and cut plates when gluing - Blue Tack on the end of a short length of brass tube.  Even the tiniest pieces could be located accurately although the tip of a scalpel blade was needed occasionally to apply final pressure until the c.a. glue had dried. 
 

 

 

 

 
I followed the kits instruction's and the guidance in The New Period Ship Handbook for the layout rather than more historically correct patterns. I also went with Keith Julien's advice in this book about getting a cleaner looking edge at the waterline by adding 0.05 x 1.09 mm polystyrene strip pre-painted black.
 
The rudder, made from oak from Victory, was the last piece to be tackled. Rather than paint the top, unclad, section I 'ebonised' it using the wire wool and white vinegar technique I described on another thread. This was followed by a couple of coats of satin varnish. The result is a black finish that still allows the grain of the oak to be seen.
 

 

 

 
The three 'Victory' copper plates on each side, just under the entry ports, can be seen in these two views although they are actually less conspicuous than the pictures suggest. There is a little c.a. residue still to be carefully removed with acetone and cotton buds. Fears that I'd run out of plates proved unfounded - just.  Mistakes, re-worked sections and experiments with forming plates to fit around the keel took their toll. Got to the end with about half a dozen whole plates left!
 
I'm happy to have completed this aspect of this model - but you can have too much of a good thing and at this moment in time I can safely say that any kit I attempt in the future will be copper plate free, probably cannon free too.
 
This site is full of pearls of wisdom and two of them that are lodged in my mind at present are:
'Buy your toys before you retire' and 'it's probably best to seek forgiveness than permission'
... just maybe there's room in the 'stash' for a different type of vessel, possibly one rarely found 'outside the Straights of Otranto' ..... waiting for the day when Victory is finished - no rush!
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.
 

Hi,
Other commitments and the odd curve ball that life can throw at you sometimes has slowed progress recently. I have, however, made a little more progress so here's an update.
 
The starboard stern plating has now been completed and the bow is close to completion.

I must admit that there have been some sessions where I seemed to be picking more plates off than I was putting on but I'm fairly happy with the result so far. Finishing along the waterline and adding the 'stealers'(?) into the pattern was challenging at times as well as time consuming.
 
As bit of a break from this section of the build I decided to have a go at working out how to produce some of the rigging on the gun carriages. Following David's (ShipyardSid) advice to  Robert(22564) I threaded the appropriate eyelets etc. onto the rope before these are later fitted to the carriage and ceiling.

 
The ends of the rope were then bound with thread.
 

 

 
Right ...... back to plating .....
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
A couple of diverse reasons for this up-date ...
 
Firstly - Robert, thank you for the compliment about my jigs and this post also includes a very simple one. I'm a regular visitor to your build and love the quality of your model and agree with your decision to leave your hull planked and copper plate free - that skillful work needs to be seen to be fully appreciated!
 
The second purpose is the result of the dreaded PB changes to my account, third party hosting etc. and an attempt to see if I can still access and use my photos. I only use PB as a simple means to 'size' my pictures - I have found that by just up-loading pictures and then re-saving them on a memory stick, and using the latter as the source to add the photos to my posts, the pictures can be added without the need for any more adjustment to meet the required parameters. To be honest I struggle with image manipulation software at times. It appears that I can still use PB successfully, frustrating as the adverts and 'pop ups' are. Yes, I could pay to avoid them, but I'd rather be investing the money in materials and tools. 
This approach, however, and my reluctance to embrace change is in some ways a reflection of a phobia of the new .... time to have a go at uploading directly through the MSW route I think, after all how hard can it be? - next time...
 
As a break from copper plating I decided to look at the mounting of the cannons and to complete the construction of a gun carriage to check out the assembly process. This jig was made to help with marking the position of the eyelets either side of the gun ports.


I've added additional rings to the sides of the carriages to make the run of the ropes more like the real thing, as many other builders have done. An improvised 'draw plate' helped reduce the size of the end of the loop that then holds the guide ring.


 
The assembly of the carriage was very straight forward and presented no major issues, but those eyelets (480) are so small! I swear that there is nothing wrong with my eyesight - but my arms must have shrunk as they are no longer long enough to be able to hold small components in focus. Time to visit the optician again ....
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
While work continues with copper plating the starboard side of the hull I've also turned my attention to the cannons and their carriages. Having found a way to assemble the carriages I started work on researching how to set about applying a painted finish to the cannons. An initial request for advice on spraying led to a whole new approach (see the thread in the 'Painting, finishes and weathering techniques and products' ) and subsequently the finish is now achieved using 'Brass Black'.
 
To reliably form the trunnion clamps I resorted to making a new pair of jaw inserts for my  Mantua plank bending pliers. With this tool I've also been able to replicate the slight left and right hand bias that these clamps need to compensate for the tapering sides of the gun carriages.


Cheers,
 
Graham.

Hi,
Just finished the copper cladding!
I was struggling to see and apply some of the smaller cut plates needed to fill in gaps along the keel and waterline on the first side of the hull so I decided to invest in an illuminated head loupe.  I wish I'd bought one earlier as using it for the first time resulted in me having to re-work several areas as I was not happy with the gaps between some of the plates already in place.
 

 
Also in this picture is the most useful tool I found to hold plates in position for marking out and then positioning whole and cut plates when gluing - Blue Tack on the end of a short length of brass tube.  Even the tiniest pieces could be located accurately although the tip of a scalpel blade was needed occasionally to apply final pressure until the c.a. glue had dried. 
 

 

 

 

 
I followed the kits instruction's and the guidance in The New Period Ship Handbook for the layout rather than more historically correct patterns. I also went with Keith Julien's advice in this book about getting a cleaner looking edge at the waterline by adding 0.05 x 1.09 mm polystyrene strip pre-painted black.
 
The rudder, made from oak from Victory, was the last piece to be tackled. Rather than paint the top, unclad, section I 'ebonised' it using the wire wool and white vinegar technique I described on another thread. This was followed by a couple of coats of satin varnish. The result is a black finish that still allows the grain of the oak to be seen.
 

 

 

 
The three 'Victory' copper plates on each side, just under the entry ports, can be seen in these two views although they are actually less conspicuous than the pictures suggest. There is a little c.a. residue still to be carefully removed with acetone and cotton buds. Fears that I'd run out of plates proved unfounded - just.  Mistakes, re-worked sections and experiments with forming plates to fit around the keel took their toll. Got to the end with about half a dozen whole plates left!
 
I'm happy to have completed this aspect of this model - but you can have too much of a good thing and at this moment in time I can safely say that any kit I attempt in the future will be copper plate free, probably cannon free too.
 
This site is full of pearls of wisdom and two of them that are lodged in my mind at present are:
'Buy your toys before you retire' and 'it's probably best to seek forgiveness than permission'
... just maybe there's room in the 'stash' for a different type of vessel, possibly one rarely found 'outside the Straights of Otranto' ..... waiting for the day when Victory is finished - no rush!
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.
 

Hi,
Just finished the copper cladding!
I was struggling to see and apply some of the smaller cut plates needed to fill in gaps along the keel and waterline on the first side of the hull so I decided to invest in an illuminated head loupe.  I wish I'd bought one earlier as using it for the first time resulted in me having to re-work several areas as I was not happy with the gaps between some of the plates already in place.
 

 
Also in this picture is the most useful tool I found to hold plates in position for marking out and then positioning whole and cut plates when gluing - Blue Tack on the end of a short length of brass tube.  Even the tiniest pieces could be located accurately although the tip of a scalpel blade was needed occasionally to apply final pressure until the c.a. glue had dried. 
 

 

 

 

 
I followed the kits instruction's and the guidance in The New Period Ship Handbook for the layout rather than more historically correct patterns. I also went with Keith Julien's advice in this book about getting a cleaner looking edge at the waterline by adding 0.05 x 1.09 mm polystyrene strip pre-painted black.
 
The rudder, made from oak from Victory, was the last piece to be tackled. Rather than paint the top, unclad, section I 'ebonised' it using the wire wool and white vinegar technique I described on another thread. This was followed by a couple of coats of satin varnish. The result is a black finish that still allows the grain of the oak to be seen.
 

 

 

 
The three 'Victory' copper plates on each side, just under the entry ports, can be seen in these two views although they are actually less conspicuous than the pictures suggest. There is a little c.a. residue still to be carefully removed with acetone and cotton buds. Fears that I'd run out of plates proved unfounded - just.  Mistakes, re-worked sections and experiments with forming plates to fit around the keel took their toll. Got to the end with about half a dozen whole plates left!
 
I'm happy to have completed this aspect of this model - but you can have too much of a good thing and at this moment in time I can safely say that any kit I attempt in the future will be copper plate free, probably cannon free too.
 
This site is full of pearls of wisdom and two of them that are lodged in my mind at present are:
'Buy your toys before you retire' and 'it's probably best to seek forgiveness than permission'
... just maybe there's room in the 'stash' for a different type of vessel, possibly one rarely found 'outside the Straights of Otranto' ..... waiting for the day when Victory is finished - no rush!
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.
 

Hi,
 
I managed to find a local supplier of 0.5 mm brass wire and my first attempt at a frame now has the pins I mentioned earlier.
 

 
I decided to focus on the stern and to this end I've worked on the transom pieces. I made the lowest filling transom first and to be honest it was a bit of a disaster.  Subsequent attempts were more successful. 
 

 

 

 
 The filling, deck and wing transoms have been cut to profile and the joints adjusted to ensure a good fit with the inner post.  They have not yet been glued into place.  Inner surfaces have been given an initial fairing but I'm thinking of leaving the outside faces and the ends until the appropriate frames are ready.  This way I can refine the fit to the frames and they will be better supported and stronger to withstand shaping.
 
Next task will be the bow - once I've worked out which version of the Hawse to use. There seem to be two versions: 'Hawse, 1 - 5' and 'Hawsetimbers 1 - 6'. I think it's the latter .....
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.
 

Next I took the hull to a car painting shop, where they sprayed a nice grey acid primer to the surface.

 
 
 
And after that I brushed white half matte water soluble paint on it. Waterline was marked with a fixture like this, and a masking tape was applied to separate dark green bottom paint from the white.

 
 
Anchors (Cornwall Model Boats) and windows were attached next. Holes for windows were first drilled with 10 mm drill bit. After that 10/9 mm rings were cut of 0,8 mm plywood with a cnc machine and glued into the holes, and finally 10 mm diameter window glasses were sawn of 3 mm thick black acryl sheet and glued inside.

 
Hull painted and anchors & cabin window glasses installed, waiting for next tasks.

 

5.6
Finally, all the frames are into position.

Thank you both. They were done way back in the 1980's?
Today's painting is The Drifter Base at Flotta in Scapa Flo. The Drifters were used as Tenders to the Grand Fleet in WW1 and the RN in general in WW2.
And to give them something to tend ........ 
Nevada , part of the 6th BS of the Grand Fleet in 1918
Jim

Here are some Cliffs I painted 
both are of Muckle Flugga most northerly lighthouse in UK
 
Jim

Hello Everyone,
 
Again thanks for your likes.
 
Welcome aboard King David, your probably the last crew member to come aboard before we're ready to sail.
 
I think it's natural that when you can see the finishing line you put a spurt on, well that's what's happening here in my workroom.
 
A bit more progress on the boats, the photos show how I'm doing, I've also made up and fitted their supports on the deck beams. I'm in the process of collecting all the cord off cuts and I'm starting to make up the rope coils.
 
Ken

Hi,
 
I managed to find a local supplier of 0.5 mm brass wire and my first attempt at a frame now has the pins I mentioned earlier.
 

 
I decided to focus on the stern and to this end I've worked on the transom pieces. I made the lowest filling transom first and to be honest it was a bit of a disaster.  Subsequent attempts were more successful. 
 

 

 

 
 The filling, deck and wing transoms have been cut to profile and the joints adjusted to ensure a good fit with the inner post.  They have not yet been glued into place.  Inner surfaces have been given an initial fairing but I'm thinking of leaving the outside faces and the ends until the appropriate frames are ready.  This way I can refine the fit to the frames and they will be better supported and stronger to withstand shaping.
 
Next task will be the bow - once I've worked out which version of the Hawse to use. There seem to be two versions: 'Hawse, 1 - 5' and 'Hawsetimbers 1 - 6'. I think it's the latter .....
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.
 

Hi,
 
I managed to find a local supplier of 0.5 mm brass wire and my first attempt at a frame now has the pins I mentioned earlier.
 

 
I decided to focus on the stern and to this end I've worked on the transom pieces. I made the lowest filling transom first and to be honest it was a bit of a disaster.  Subsequent attempts were more successful. 
 

 

 

 
 The filling, deck and wing transoms have been cut to profile and the joints adjusted to ensure a good fit with the inner post.  They have not yet been glued into place.  Inner surfaces have been given an initial fairing but I'm thinking of leaving the outside faces and the ends until the appropriate frames are ready.  This way I can refine the fit to the frames and they will be better supported and stronger to withstand shaping.
 
Next task will be the bow - once I've worked out which version of the Hawse to use. There seem to be two versions: 'Hawse, 1 - 5' and 'Hawsetimbers 1 - 6'. I think it's the latter .....
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.
 

Next I started to think about all the different lists outside the hull. Old iron ships had many different profiled lists on the hull, and so did this too. There are round, half round and more complex grooved lists to be installed. The first two are easy, just go to the nearest hobbyshop and buy styrene strips with right dimensions. The grooved ones were a bit more difficult. After having thought hard, how I could make them, I finally made a forming tool of an old window scraper, and used 3x4 mm abachi strips for material.
 

Form tool and strips made with it.
 
 
 

Form list glued at stern.
 
 
 

Those lists under the waterline were difficult to keep on place during glue curing. For this work I made some long nose clamps according to old shipwright manner.
 
 
 

But the first clamps were a bit shaky due to hinge made of leather. These improved ones work much better and are easier to use.
 
 
 

And finally all the lists and window frames are installed and the hull could be taken for painting.
 

Hi and a big welcome!
 
I was not familiar with your choice for a first build so I've just looked it up on Google. I'm sure you will find that it will be a rewarding and satisfying project, especially with your previous modelling experience. I was in a similar position to you and convinced myself that I'd taken on a project far beyond my abilities. I then learned two essential lessons: firstly you never know what you can achieve unless you have a go, and secondly that this site is in a class of it's own when it comes to the support and guidance available. Best advice is to start your own build log - and if a challenge arises just ask. There are so many talented builders here keen to help others succeed.
 
Good luck!
 
Graham.

Thank you Brian, they are one of my favourites too. I was lucky enough to see some working on the Thames in the late 50's 
here are some I did as Christmas Cards. You are all welcome to use them if you want.
jim

Just stunning! Congratulations - it's been a real pleasure following your progress. Such incredible detail ......
 
Graham

Hi Alan,
 
I thought that hull looked familiar. I'm just putting the final touches to the copper plating on my own identical one, also a present from my  Admiral, and also held up for a time by significant health issues. Hope you find a way to solve those problems you've described.
I am following your Triton build with interest. I'm focusing on the stern section at the moment and hope to up-date my log in the near future.
 
Cheers,
 
Graham.

Just stunning! Congratulations - it's been a real pleasure following your progress. Such incredible detail ......
 
Graham