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Bob Cleek

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  1. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from ferretmary1 in Ship Ribbing with CAD?   
    I believe there are a few kit manufacturers that have done this and sell kits with laser-cut wood for assembly. (See the "sponsors" list on the right side of the forum home page. E.g., Syren Ship Models and Vanguard Ship Models.) Syren Ship Models has a special "installment purchase" group build project for the frigate HMS Winchelsea (1764) going on at the moment. It's a beautiful model and extremely high quality. See:  HMS Winchelsea (1764) by Chuck Passaro|A plank on Bulkhead scratch ship model project|32 gun English frigate (syrenshipmodelcompany.com)
     

    Syren Ship Model Company|Boxwood ship model rigging blocks|Ship Model rigging rope |turned brass cannon| Chuck Passaro
     
    There are a number of forum members doing CAD modeling and publishing their progress in CAD "build logs" which you can review to get a sense of what's involved in what you are asking about. I must confess that I am a "board and tee-square" draftsman and my knowledge of the CAD technology is general and theoretical, but not practical. As do some others, I find that the manual drafting techniques which I learned long ago in school continue to serve me well for my purposes. There are many advantages to CAD drafting, particularly in terms of presentation to untrained eyes. The ability to produce a 3D rotating projection of a shape as complex as a ship's hull that is instantly understood by any viewer is an amazing feature, as is the easy replication of various modifications in the design process. For those of us who were taught to "read" draughts and thus acquired the ability to "see in three dimensions" the shapes depicted in traditional orthographic projection the advanced features of CAD are "overkill" for modeling purposes. In fact, if you are contemplating creating a 3D CAD file of a particular historic vessel, you will have to learn to read the original orthographic projections in order to translate them for loading into your database anyway. (And from what I've seen looking over the shoulders of the CAD wonks who are doing that in this forum, translating draughts into CAD can be quite a challenging task that I've decided is beyond my ability to master in the time I have left in this life!  ) 
     
    To get as good an idea of what you are considering getting into, I suggest you read and follow "CDR Ret's" fascinating "build log" of his digital recreation of SS Galilee, an 1891 merchant brigantine designed by Matthew Turner beginning at:  
    As for laser-cutting wooden parts for a model, I expect Chuck Passaro of Syren Ship Models knows as much about applying that technology to creating parts for ship models as anybody and he has addressed it in his many posts on this forum. I would only say that the specifics of laser-cutting technology are way above my pay grade, but I do know that the primary advantage of laser-cutting is in its ability to repetitively produce large quantities of identically shaped parts. This makes it particularly useful in the manufacturing of multiple ship model kits. On the other hand, if you are scratch-building a "one-off" model, getting out your shaped parts is faster and probably a lot more enjoyable doing it the old-fashioned way than spending hours and hours programming a laser-cutter to then burn the parts according to your data, after which you will have to sand the char off all the edges!  
     
    As for basswood, I expect as you research your options based on the data here in this forum, you will conclude that it is not a prudent choice of species for the purpose you intend. While it's frequently used in lower- and middle-quality range model kits, and as a soft wood it is easily worked, it is really only suitable for painted finishes and presents finishing challenges even then. It is not suitable for fine carving work which requires a fine-grained hard wood such as box or apple, nor for planking that will be finished "bright" (showing the wood's natural color.) Given the sort of model you are interested in building, I expect you will conclude upon further analysis that there are other wood species that are more easily worked, stronger, and, if you intend to finish any of it bright, far more attractive than basswood. Think of it this way: basswood is like the wood 2X4 dimensioned construction lumber is made of and what you are contemplating building is a Steinway piano.  (Don't let the cost of expensive finish wood species scare you off. A ship model requires so little of it that building with cheap wood is a foolish economy in the end.) 
     
    I'm not trying to scare you off at all. I just want to give you what I hope is some direction for finding out what you will probably need to know to get where you want to go. There is always a tendency for newer modelers to "bite off more than they can chew" and there are some significant learning curves to be conquered before anyone can accomplish the incredible level of workmanship that can be seen from what some of the masters of the craft post in this forum. Very few of us will ever achieve such levels of artistic accomplishment, but we all can certainly try. The trick is not to be too hard on ourselves as we journey towards becoming better and better at it nor to discourage ourselves by unreasonable comparisons with prodigies. The greatest enjoyment in modeling ships is simply in the doing of the thing. 
     
     
     
     
  2. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to iMustBeCrazy in Ship Ribbing with CAD?   
    Well, you can follow my bumbling path through the links in my sig with the Lapwing drawings and build (to date) but I seriously suggest you start with something simpler than a Frigate, say a dinghy, skiff, dory etc. in 1:24 or 1:16
     
    Meanwhile look for Frigate drawings you like in the best quality you can find, perhaps the Enterprize class, many nice big drawings:
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=rmg+enterprize&title=Special:MediaSearch&go=Go&type=image&fileres=>1000
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=rmg+rose+plan+-chart+-painting&title=Special:MediaSearch&go=Go&type=image&fileres=>1000
     
  3. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from CDR_Ret in Ship Ribbing with CAD?   
    I believe there are a few kit manufacturers that have done this and sell kits with laser-cut wood for assembly. (See the "sponsors" list on the right side of the forum home page. E.g., Syren Ship Models and Vanguard Ship Models.) Syren Ship Models has a special "installment purchase" group build project for the frigate HMS Winchelsea (1764) going on at the moment. It's a beautiful model and extremely high quality. See:  HMS Winchelsea (1764) by Chuck Passaro|A plank on Bulkhead scratch ship model project|32 gun English frigate (syrenshipmodelcompany.com)
     

    Syren Ship Model Company|Boxwood ship model rigging blocks|Ship Model rigging rope |turned brass cannon| Chuck Passaro
     
    There are a number of forum members doing CAD modeling and publishing their progress in CAD "build logs" which you can review to get a sense of what's involved in what you are asking about. I must confess that I am a "board and tee-square" draftsman and my knowledge of the CAD technology is general and theoretical, but not practical. As do some others, I find that the manual drafting techniques which I learned long ago in school continue to serve me well for my purposes. There are many advantages to CAD drafting, particularly in terms of presentation to untrained eyes. The ability to produce a 3D rotating projection of a shape as complex as a ship's hull that is instantly understood by any viewer is an amazing feature, as is the easy replication of various modifications in the design process. For those of us who were taught to "read" draughts and thus acquired the ability to "see in three dimensions" the shapes depicted in traditional orthographic projection the advanced features of CAD are "overkill" for modeling purposes. In fact, if you are contemplating creating a 3D CAD file of a particular historic vessel, you will have to learn to read the original orthographic projections in order to translate them for loading into your database anyway. (And from what I've seen looking over the shoulders of the CAD wonks who are doing that in this forum, translating draughts into CAD can be quite a challenging task that I've decided is beyond my ability to master in the time I have left in this life!  ) 
     
    To get as good an idea of what you are considering getting into, I suggest you read and follow "CDR Ret's" fascinating "build log" of his digital recreation of SS Galilee, an 1891 merchant brigantine designed by Matthew Turner beginning at:  
    As for laser-cutting wooden parts for a model, I expect Chuck Passaro of Syren Ship Models knows as much about applying that technology to creating parts for ship models as anybody and he has addressed it in his many posts on this forum. I would only say that the specifics of laser-cutting technology are way above my pay grade, but I do know that the primary advantage of laser-cutting is in its ability to repetitively produce large quantities of identically shaped parts. This makes it particularly useful in the manufacturing of multiple ship model kits. On the other hand, if you are scratch-building a "one-off" model, getting out your shaped parts is faster and probably a lot more enjoyable doing it the old-fashioned way than spending hours and hours programming a laser-cutter to then burn the parts according to your data, after which you will have to sand the char off all the edges!  
     
    As for basswood, I expect as you research your options based on the data here in this forum, you will conclude that it is not a prudent choice of species for the purpose you intend. While it's frequently used in lower- and middle-quality range model kits, and as a soft wood it is easily worked, it is really only suitable for painted finishes and presents finishing challenges even then. It is not suitable for fine carving work which requires a fine-grained hard wood such as box or apple, nor for planking that will be finished "bright" (showing the wood's natural color.) Given the sort of model you are interested in building, I expect you will conclude upon further analysis that there are other wood species that are more easily worked, stronger, and, if you intend to finish any of it bright, far more attractive than basswood. Think of it this way: basswood is like the wood 2X4 dimensioned construction lumber is made of and what you are contemplating building is a Steinway piano.  (Don't let the cost of expensive finish wood species scare you off. A ship model requires so little of it that building with cheap wood is a foolish economy in the end.) 
     
    I'm not trying to scare you off at all. I just want to give you what I hope is some direction for finding out what you will probably need to know to get where you want to go. There is always a tendency for newer modelers to "bite off more than they can chew" and there are some significant learning curves to be conquered before anyone can accomplish the incredible level of workmanship that can be seen from what some of the masters of the craft post in this forum. Very few of us will ever achieve such levels of artistic accomplishment, but we all can certainly try. The trick is not to be too hard on ourselves as we journey towards becoming better and better at it nor to discourage ourselves by unreasonable comparisons with prodigies. The greatest enjoyment in modeling ships is simply in the doing of the thing. 
     
     
     
     
  4. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from DaveBaxt in I need help painting my model   
    As said, the answer to "How do I paint my model?" is far too complicated to answer comprehensively in just a single forum post. We haven't even gotten past whether you've chosen wisely in wanting to use water-based acrylics rather than oil-based enamels. (Each has its own pluses and minuses.) Painting is one of the more demanding skills a ship modeler must acquire and in as much as it is one of those things that people think they know all they need to about, it's one which frequently brings one to unexpected grief if not done properly. Perhaps the first thing one must realize is that any paint job on a scale model must itself also be to the same scale as the model. In the scales we encounter in ship modeling, this means that the paint jobs have to be as near to perfect as possible.
     
    I would urge you to get a copy of the second volume of the Nautical Research Guild's book, Ship Modeler's Shop Notes, which has a chapter on how to paint ship models that is as good a treatment of the subject as I've ever seen. The rest of the book is full of similarly excellent trick of the trade. While you are at it, you might as well buy Volume I of the same publication. Once you see one of them, you'll want the other for sure.   Used copies can sometimes be found on eBay, but a new copy can easily be obtained for a reasonable price from the NRG directly. See: Ship Modeler's Shop Notes, and Vol. 2 – Nautical Research Guild (thenrgstore.org) and Ship Modeler's Shop Notes, Vol. I – Nautical Research Guild (thenrgstore.org) 
  5. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Thukydides in I need help painting my model   
    I use sable brushes with acrylic paint and have some I have been using for years and they are still fine. I do know people who prefer synthetic, but I much prefer the natural hair brushes. I fine they keep their point better which is really what is most important when painting scale models.
     
    That being said I would recommend a beginner start with relatively cheap synthetic brushes as there is no point in spending money on brushes you will inevitably ruin through lack of care. Once you know what you are doing you can invest in more expensive ones. I still use cheap walmart synthetic brushes for tasks which don’t require precision to block in colours etc…
     
    Most important thing with brushes is learning to take care of them, invest in some brush soap and don’t ever let the paint rise more than half way up the brush. Rinse them frequently and take care not to damage the point.
  6. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from KORTES in SS Blagoev ex-Songa 1921 by Valeriy V - scale 1:100 - Soviet Union   
    The notched covering boards are exquisite, especially at that scale! Bravo!
     
    Glad to hear you are doing well, also. We all worry about Ukraine. 
  7. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Keith Black in Cangarda 1901 by KeithAug - Scale 1:24 - Steam Yacht   
    They've been doing it for a long time here in the U.S., too. Thankfully, they haven't gone as far as "subscription heated seats," but my 2015 GMC Sierra pickup truck came with all the electronic "bells and whistles" including GM's automatic crash emergency reporting locater, GPS dash screen, Sirius internet radio, and so on. All I would have been interested in was the GPS, but it all came with the upgrade package, so I had to buy it to get the upgraded interior I wanted. The catch is that all those services are only included for the first year after you buy the vehicle. After that, they shut down and they start sending you solicitations to subscribe to keep them going. While the GPS still works, they want something like a hundred bucks a year to upgrade it to reflect map changes. I passed on that, and I'll take my chances. I can always use my smart phone GPS app if I end up "driving off the edge of the old map." 
  8. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Valeriy V in Cangarda 1901 by KeithAug - Scale 1:24 - Steam Yacht   
    I understand you - I once had to experience similar feelings. 
    Great job, Keith!  

  9. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Ian_Grant in Cangarda 1901 by KeithAug - Scale 1:24 - Steam Yacht   
    They've been doing it for a long time here in the U.S., too. Thankfully, they haven't gone as far as "subscription heated seats," but my 2015 GMC Sierra pickup truck came with all the electronic "bells and whistles" including GM's automatic crash emergency reporting locater, GPS dash screen, Sirius internet radio, and so on. All I would have been interested in was the GPS, but it all came with the upgrade package, so I had to buy it to get the upgraded interior I wanted. The catch is that all those services are only included for the first year after you buy the vehicle. After that, they shut down and they start sending you solicitations to subscribe to keep them going. While the GPS still works, they want something like a hundred bucks a year to upgrade it to reflect map changes. I passed on that, and I'll take my chances. I can always use my smart phone GPS app if I end up "driving off the edge of the old map." 
  10. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from druxey in SS Blagoev ex-Songa 1921 by Valeriy V - scale 1:100 - Soviet Union   
    The notched covering boards are exquisite, especially at that scale! Bravo!
     
    Glad to hear you are doing well, also. We all worry about Ukraine. 
  11. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Cangarda 1901 by KeithAug - Scale 1:24 - Steam Yacht   
    They've been doing it for a long time here in the U.S., too. Thankfully, they haven't gone as far as "subscription heated seats," but my 2015 GMC Sierra pickup truck came with all the electronic "bells and whistles" including GM's automatic crash emergency reporting locater, GPS dash screen, Sirius internet radio, and so on. All I would have been interested in was the GPS, but it all came with the upgrade package, so I had to buy it to get the upgraded interior I wanted. The catch is that all those services are only included for the first year after you buy the vehicle. After that, they shut down and they start sending you solicitations to subscribe to keep them going. While the GPS still works, they want something like a hundred bucks a year to upgrade it to reflect map changes. I passed on that, and I'll take my chances. I can always use my smart phone GPS app if I end up "driving off the edge of the old map." 
  12. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Tony Hunt in SS Blagoev ex-Songa 1921 by Valeriy V - scale 1:100 - Soviet Union   
    The notched covering boards are exquisite, especially at that scale! Bravo!
     
    Glad to hear you are doing well, also. We all worry about Ukraine. 
  13. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in SS Blagoev ex-Songa 1921 by Valeriy V - scale 1:100 - Soviet Union   
    The notched covering boards are exquisite, especially at that scale! Bravo!
     
    Glad to hear you are doing well, also. We all worry about Ukraine. 
  14. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Keith Black in SS Blagoev ex-Songa 1921 by Valeriy V - scale 1:100 - Soviet Union   
    The notched covering boards are exquisite, especially at that scale! Bravo!
     
    Glad to hear you are doing well, also. We all worry about Ukraine. 
  15. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Valeriy V in SS Blagoev ex-Songa 1921 by Valeriy V - scale 1:100 - Soviet Union   
    The vacuum cleaner is always next to me.
    I have already developed a conditioned reflex and at the first opportunity, after completing one or another operation, I turn on my electric assistant.  
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Valeriy V in SS Blagoev ex-Songa 1921 by Valeriy V - scale 1:100 - Soviet Union   
    Thank you, Eberhard! I'm fine. Work on the model continues.  

  17. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to wefalck in SS Blagoev ex-Songa 1921 by Valeriy V - scale 1:100 - Soviet Union   
    No update for the past three weeks - I hope everything is ok over there ... we seem to get rather mixed messages from that region.
     
  18. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Jaager in Type of glue to use planking a hull   
    It is a terrible choice.  It has a relatively short life. It becomes brittle and releases its bond. 
    It is thick and does not allow positioning.  There is no easy way to reverse it.
     
    Attach Lino to a plywood sheet for something intended to last 10 years or so - go for it.
     
    PVA plus heat can become a contract cement of sorts.  A dry even coat on both meeting surfaces plus heat activates a bond.  The outside layer has to be thin enough to allow heat transfer at a temp that does not char or cook the outer layer.
  19. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to barkeater in Type of glue to use planking a hull   
    The problem with using CA for planking is that it stains any exposed surface and is just about impossible to sand out because it penetrates. This persists when you overcoat with varnish or shellac. A stain can even be seen when you paint over the area because you lose the grain of the surface as it is replaced by plastic. A good rule of thumb is to use PVA on wood or any wood product such as paper and leave the CA for bonding metal or plastic to wood. You can use it where you need a quick bond but if you've shaped your wood beforehand this is rarely necessary. PVA clamped by hand if you can't get a mechanical clamp on it and counting count to 100 usually is enough to hold your bond.
    Rich
  20. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Knocklouder in I need help painting my model   
    This is true. But after you use the natural bristles brushes  in oil paint for awhile , you clean it with  paint thiner then when clean and dryed, use it in latex paint or water base . Never go back to oil with that brush, it is now a water brush. 
     I being doing this  for 47 years. I love synthetic  brushes but  for clear coats I prefer  natural  bristles  brushes, I get less brush marks lol less not none lol.    You will get all kinds of advice  about painting  and their  is some great advice here MSW  lol.
     
    Good luck on your journey.  !!
    Bob M .
  21. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in I need help painting my model   
    From your post, it's clear you are an experienced and quite competent painter, so I'm intrigued by your preference for natural bristle brushes, given your preference for water-based acrylic paints. I have always been under the impression that only synthetic brushes should be used for applying water-based coatings because water will soak into natural bristles and cause them to soften, thereby ruining the intended "snap" of the brush as well as it's shape when the water-soaked bristles swelled. This was a particularly hard and fast rule with high quality natural bristle brushes, which are quite expensive. Natural bristle brushes were only to be used with oil-based paints. My cousins were third generation commercial painters and they used to keep their high-quality Chinese boar bristle brushes under lock and key at the shop. Those were only issued to the union master painters who knew the difference and could be trusted not to use them for applying latex paint! How do your expensive sable hair brushes stand up to use in water compared to a similar grade of synthetic bristle brush? Do you notice any difference?
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Rigging of Knighthead How?   
    Looking at the three lines "hanging loose" at the bottom of the picture and identifying them by numbers one through three running from left to right, I believe the intended purchases will be realized if lines one and two are secured to a deck fastening, be that an eyebolt, cleat, or belaying pin (if such were in use in your period,) leaving line three as the fall or "heaving part," which would be run through the sheave in the knight's head post and lead away as convenient to permit a hauling gang to pull it horizontally in unison. 
  23. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in I need help painting my model   
    From your post, it's clear you are an experienced and quite competent painter, so I'm intrigued by your preference for natural bristle brushes, given your preference for water-based acrylic paints. I have always been under the impression that only synthetic brushes should be used for applying water-based coatings because water will soak into natural bristles and cause them to soften, thereby ruining the intended "snap" of the brush as well as it's shape when the water-soaked bristles swelled. This was a particularly hard and fast rule with high quality natural bristle brushes, which are quite expensive. Natural bristle brushes were only to be used with oil-based paints. My cousins were third generation commercial painters and they used to keep their high-quality Chinese boar bristle brushes under lock and key at the shop. Those were only issued to the union master painters who knew the difference and could be trusted not to use them for applying latex paint! How do your expensive sable hair brushes stand up to use in water compared to a similar grade of synthetic bristle brush? Do you notice any difference?
  24. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Dr PR in Rigging of Knighthead How?   
    As I understand it the term "knighthead" originated for any timber that had a fancy carved head or figure on the top. "Bitt" is a term that applies to vertical timbers that provide places to belay lines. So a bitt can be a knighthead, but not all bitts are knightheads.
     
    The rigging arrangement in the drawing in post #5 is a "whip on whip" tackle. A single block with one line fastened (the standing part) and one line running (the fall) is a whip tackle. Pulling on or letting out either fall will raise or lower the yard. Working both falls at the same time just raises or lowers the yard faster. And two lines allows twice as many people to work where deck space is limited.
     
    One of the lines from the lower block is the "standing" part that would be fastened to a cleat or eyebolt - the one on the bitt/knighthead would work. The other two lines are "running" lines that could be passed through sheaves in the bitt/knighthead and then belayed somewhere nearby. As Bob said, running the lines through the sheaves in the bitt/knightnead allows them to be pulled on horizontally to raise or lower the yard.
     
    The same redirection can be accomplished with a single "runner" block attached to a ring bolt on deck (or anywhere else) and running the fall from a tackle through the runner block.
  25. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to wefalck in Long term CA vapors   
    Something I learned as a teenager from my father, who was a chemist working with acrylics in the pharmaceutical industry, is that CA needs humity to trigger polymerisation - therefore one should  gently breathe on the are to cemented together and onto the CA applied.
     
    Indeed, a big blob of CA will quickly polymerise on the outside, but that forms a shell into which humidity cannot penetrate to support polymerisation. Hence, it may take a while for such a blob to fully cure.
     
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