USS Constitution by Modeler12 - FINISHED - Model Shipways

[Modeler12]

The ends of the five futtock shrouds come together and go through a ring. See diagram above and the picture below.

The shrouds are 0.025 inch diameter, and then there is the 'Bentinck shroud', the one that ties all of the above to the waterways.

It is 0.040 inch diameter. So, how much of a ring size do I need?

 

I hate to do this, but the idea is shown in my simple calculation below. And sure enough a ring with an inside diameter of 1/8 inch worked fine.

 

I will move the ring up to its proper position and again glue this together before rigging the Bentinck shroud to the waterways.

I have to do the same thing from the other side and wonder about interference. Hence I will hold off with details.

[Modeler12]

I am not happy with the way the futtock shrouds go around the stave. The drawing shows futtock 'extensions', which I took to mean a metal part with eyes at both ends for the shrouds. 

I decided to try this approach with some brass wire. Using a fixture I made some time ago for other loops and things, I bent the wire into short sections. I needed five.

 

Then I tried to silver solder these to the futtock stave. It did not work well. As soon as I tried to add another one, the solder came loose on the one before. Back to the drawing board and I found that I should solder all of them at once. Below you can see that I simply taped the pieces to the stone slab, added a tiny amount of solder paste (the grey stuff in the picture), and hit it ever so briefly with the torch.
You might think the torch would ignite the tape, but this goes so fast that the edge of the tape was barely scorched.

 

 

The result seems OK. Before and after blackening.

 

I will use this one for the starboard fore mast and make another for the main mast.

[bhermann]

Nice touch with the torch, Jay.  You are becoming a real master.  I still occasionally evaporate the fitting I am trying to solder - must remember light passes are all that is needed.  I never thought of taping things to the stone - I have an old ceramic tile in the basement I may need to drag out for futures - still have all those sail hanks to make for the jib sails.

 

Loving the build!

 

Bob

[capnharv2]

That's impressive Jay. I would have burned the tape first.

 

Harvey

[Modeler12]

That's impressive Jay. I would have burned the tape first.

 

Harvey

That was my first reaction, Harvey. But when I actually tried it with this thin wire, I was surprised to see only a slight scorching of the tape edge.

When I did the parts above, I held the torch such that the flame was towards the top, away from the tape. The pass with the flame took less than a second for each intersection.

 

The picture above makes it look like I held the flame from the top towards the tape. That is not what I really did.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

Nice touch with the torch, Jay.  You are becoming a real master.  I still occasionally evaporate the fitting I am trying to solder - must remember light passes are all that is needed.  I never thought of taping things to the stone - I have an old ceramic tile in the basement I may need to drag out for futures - still have all those sail hanks to make for the jib sails.

 

Loving the build!

 

Bob

Bob, no need for an old ceramic tile. Just for fun I took a steel pizza pan from the kitchen and used it. In order to hold the little brass piece to the copper 'rod', I used a straight pin and a magnet to hold it in place.

It took a bit longer because of the thicker copper and it also used more of the paste flux, but it worked.

I show the result along with my second futtock stave to show that my first try worked as well as my second one. It was not an accident.

Notice also the extra glob on the brass piece. I have to be careful where I put the flux/paste.

[Modeler12]

The port main futtock lines are in place along with a larger ring that connects them to the 'Bentnick' shroud.

This is the first time I found a mistake in the plans. The sketch above calls for a 1/8 inch thimble. I tried that on the fore mast and found it to be way too small. In fact, the 1/8 inch for the thimble is the outside diameter. So I made some copper rings instead.

I still like to see more details about how the Bentnick shroud is attached to the waterway. I don't have any 5/32" hearts and may end up using some deadeye hearts that look about the right size.

[popeye2sea]

Jay,

I posted some info and picures in your other thread about the futtock shrouds.

 

Hope it helps.

[Modeler12]

Jay,

I posted some info and picures in your other thread about the futtock shrouds.

 

Hope it helps.

Indeed Henry and again many thanks. Your pictures are perfect and they give me a lot more confidence in rigging the futtock and bentnick shrouds. See other post.

 

The plans (the sketch above is part of those) show the bottom tackle to be a '5/32 inch heart' instead of the bullseye you show. This part of the rigging looks almost the same as the main and preventer stays near the bow. So I will take some 5/32 bullseyes, drill the holes a bit bigger and try to use those for the tackle.

I notice that the location on the waterways is a bit to the right of center. I can understand the engineering for this, because to have them in the center would mean that both the shroud and cannon tackles would apply a lot of stress on the same location.

 

For the starboard side I am also thinking of preassembling the futtock shrouds (with the staves I made and show above) and attach them to the bentnick shroud before rigging all of that to the main shrouds. I will show my attempt to do this later.

But right now it is back to the ratlines.

BTW the hole you see near the tip of the needle is for the chimney; again something I held off until later.

[Modeler12]

Back to the futtock shrouds for a minute.

As long as this was clear in my mind, I decided to draw the arrangement to scale. Later I will use this to pre-assemble the whole thing you see below on the bench. You can see the brazed 'extensions' lying on top of the drawing. The fore mast is to the left.

After I hook up the main shrouds on the starboard side, I should be able to install this arrangement including the bolts that go into the waterways. In order to make final adjustments in the tension, I will leave the tackle at the bottom loose.

 

Any way that is my plan for now.

BTW the drawing is for the port side. So I will have to use an mirror image for the starboard side.

[Modeler12]

Before I go too far with the above idea, I decided to make a couple deadeyes for the tackle on deck.

I used some steel wire and double looped that around a deadeye. I then added an eye bolt and silver soldered the metal wire.

That seemed bulky and since Henry's pictures (two of which I show below) show that the bottom bullseye is very close to the waterway, I made my second try by simply twisting the wires and then bond that directly into a hole with some epoxy. This I may have to rethink.

 

My concern was the drilling of the larger hole in the bullseye. There is a groove on the outside (not shown) and if I made the hole too big I would end up with two little pieces. However, a 5/64 inch diameter drill seemed to do the trick.

   

[Modeler12]

Here is my third and last (perhaps) attempt to duplicate the real 'block' at the bottom of the bentnick shroud.

 

I used a thicker wire, made two loops at the ends so a pin (nail) would fit through these two loops as well as an eye bolt. The bolt is still loose so I can swivel this around the pin. I drilled the larger hole after the wire was in place. I had a feeling that to do the drilling before hand would cause the wood to split.
This should be as close as I can get to the real thing. But then I think, 'But nobody is going to see this'.
So be it, but it is fun trying.

    

Edited February 3, 2014 by Modeler12

[popeye2sea]

Wow Jay, you really captured it.  It looks great

[Modeler12]

Thanks Henry.

Here is what I envision for the tackles etc. I made one more deadeye like the last one I showed. But I will also use two that are a bit simpler. The latter will be installed along the starboard side where they are practically invisible.

 

The lanyard seems a bit too thin, but that is the size line called for in the plans. This is due to the scaling factor of the blocks. The real ones look to be about 8 inch in diameter whereas mine would come to almost twice that size. I am not going to worry about this and go with what you see below. After all, the same applies to the deadeyes for most of the rest of the rigging.

Of course, all of this is temporary, so I can still make changes.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

Back to the ratlines.

 

I finished the fore mast rats but did not include the extra staves Henry referred to. They might come later, but already I am getting dizzy with too many lines. Port is my 'bad side' and I hope that the starboard ratlines will come out as bad as shown below.

The starboard shrouds are still dangling aft waiting to find a home. I will hold off with those until the topsails are rigged. The reason is that since I decided to have the Connie on a starboard tack and since the sails and spars are pointing in that direction, there is no room on port side but plenty on the starboard side to work the ratlines. Having a clear view and access without the shrouds has been helpful to me. Again my idea of working from the inside out.

 

After this come more ratlines for the main. RATS!!!

And then I hope to get back to rigging more sails.

 

BTW if anyone is interested in doing ratlines with thread-and-needle, like I do, here is a suggestion.

Thread all ratlines but leave both ends loose. I leave about an inch or two at both ends. Periodically I snug up on those ends to see if all is going ok. The thread should go through the shrouds nicely for adjustments.

BUT I DON'T GLUE THEM IN PLACE UNTIL THEY ARE ALL THREADED.

 

Then I glue the ends on one side with a touch of CA (using a toothpick), let it set and do the same on the other side (while tugging here and there) making sure the shrouds are aligned the way I see them best.

Since I sew through all of the shrouds, I check and align the inside shrouds and touch some here and there to make sure they stay that way.

The last thing I do is to trim the 'loose ends' of the ratlines.

[Modeler12]

For some reason I cannot get 'Bentnick' out of my mind.

This guy, John Bentnick, was a clever officer in the British Navy and apparently invented several useful additions to the ships on which he served.

Here is what my thoughts are about his idea about adding this shroud that, otherwise, seems to cross the ship in an unusual fashion.

This is a picture of my build, but notice the crossing line

 

Most pictures I have seen show how the upper shrouds (from the topmast) go down to the futtock shrouds, which are then either tied to the main shrouds or go across to the opposite side where they are tied to those main shrouds. What that means is that all the forces imposed on the upper shrouds are transferred to the main shrouds.

Assuming that the main shrouds are loaded to the maximum allowable, this extra force is not what is wanted. I can see in reality that the stresses would be more than normal, be it on one side or the other.

 

What Bentnick's shrouds do is to isolate the upper shroud forces (stress-strain, call it what you want) and transfer them to the bottom or main part of the hull.

Clever, I think.

 

Later there will be another line coming across from the right to make an 'X'.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

Another minor delay in setting the sails.

 

I noticed that I had not yet rigged the topmast back stays for the fore and main masts. Then I remembered that I ran out of rope for this. So back to the ropewalk to make some more. It had been quite a while since I had used it and it took a few tries to make enough for what I need.

I bet this is the only ropewalk made with Knex parts. After a few trials I even added a motor on the carriage and rigged my variable speed hand drill to drive the stationary end with the gears. Any way it works.

After I have make the rope I will stain it with General Finished Ebony water based stain.

   

[CaptCraig]

Impressive as always! My first build does not have a lot of rigging, but I know my next build will be more rigging intensive. You have great tips and I am sure everyone appreciates your work as much I do!

[Geoff Matson]

Looking good Jay. I have been doing other things this winter, but you have inspired me to get back at it.

[Senior ole salt]

Fantastic work.   All the Captains ( crew too) of Old Ironsides  in "Fiddlers Green" must be smiling now to see the care and detail you are taking.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

S.os

[Modeler12]

Thanks guys for your comments. Always appreciated.

Just in case any of you are interested in the ropewalk, I put together a few clips to show how this contraption works.

There is not sound, just some pictures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_h-PDiLJos

 

Graig, I do appreciate you watching and like your input all the time!

S.os You ole salt, you are probably aware that we have a 'real old salt' who is a retired Navy signal person (tittle???) by the name of Popeye2sea (Henry), who served on the USS Constitution. He has been very helpful with taking special pictures for me.

Geoff, I can hardly wait for you to get back to real ship building. I miss your great detailed work. One of these days I have to start the 'boats' and you (and others like our friend in Aussieland) will help me then.

[aliluke]

Great stuff Jay. The rigging never seems to end on USS Constitution - it makes me dizzy just thinking about that complexity and sails to boot.

 

Cheers

Alistair

[Modeler12]

Indeed Alistaire about the rigging and sails. If I had realized from the start what I was getting into I might have chosen a simpler model for my first crack at building ship models. But I must admit also that I enjoy the various aspects of this whole adventure and I will endure.

 

I had a look at your log for the Fly and you are doing a great job with the hull. The lines look smooth and the planking very uniform. As others have said, the weather is nice and warm (or hot) down under while most of the US is below freezing. I am sure you enjoyed your holidays on the Southern Island again.

[Modeler12]

I need to make a small correction to what I said above about the bentnick shrouds. In most cases the futtock shrouds are tied off to the main shrouds and that puts the stresses of the topmast via the futtock shrouds directly on the main shrouds. The catharpins, the bars going across to the other side, are there to prevent the futtock shrouds from pulling the main shrouds out of shape. There might be some transfer of stress but as  you can see in the picture below (borrowed from another modeler) the futtock shrouds are primarily lashed and served to the main shrouds.

The main problem I see with the Bentnick shrouds is that in the heat of battle the enemy might get a lucky shot off that breaks the bentnick shroud and there goes the topmast. A 'preventer' shroud would help but, in my opinion, to loosely tie the futtock shrouds to the main (like shown below) could still be a way to prevent a catastrophic failure.

I am sorry for delving into this, but this is all quite interesting to me.

[popeye2sea]

I recently read that the purpose of the bentinck shroud was to take the additional stresses imposed from the upper masts when the ship is rolling heavily.  The bentinck shrouds were usually set up during heavy weather and not carried all the time.

 

Not sure of the validity of that but I thought it worth mentioning.

[Modeler12]

I recently read that the purpose of the bentinck shroud was to take the additional stresses imposed from the upper masts when the ship is rolling heavily.  The bentinck shrouds were usually set up during heavy weather and not carried all the time.

 

Not sure of the validity of that but I thought it worth mentioning.

Henry, that could be, but . . ..

When the ship is rolling the stresses on the futtock shrouds would be larger than normal and the bentnick shrouds would be needed the most. I would be surprised, thought, that the system would be taken down under normal operations, because then there would be no transfer point for the futtock stresses. It would be like a small sailboat without shrouds coming from the top of the mast.

Thanks for those comments.

 

Let me add here that I am finished making rope for a while. As long as I had the ropewalk set up, I made three sizes. The numbers you see in the picture below refer to the thread length per unit weight. That means that the larger the number, the thinner the thread. However, that does not mean that #10 is three times thicker than #30.

Now it should be back to rigging.

[Modeler12]

Henry, there is another possibility. The ship did not always have the bentnick shrouds, I am sure. The book by Marquardt 'Anatomy of the Ship . . .USS Constitution' shows a drawing of the futtock area that is much more like most ships of that era. This is part of page 102. Notice item 6.

 

Of course, I have no idea when the change took place.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Modeler12

[CaptainSteve]

Jay,

You've sent me running for my copy of AOTS now. 

You might have noticed J 1/2 on pg101, which also demonstrates your point.

(Items 10 & 11, in particular)

Edited February 8, 2014 by CaptainSteve

[Modeler12]

Jay,

You've sent me running for my copy of AOTS now. 

You might have noticed J 1/2 on pg101, which also demonstrates your point.

(Items 10 & 11, in particular)

Right on Steve.

Again it shows the catharpin without the visual 'interference' of the futtock shrouds. The picture is very clear.

 

Also notice at the bottom of that page that the main shrouds only have two whippings to hold them to the deadeyes. That is what I used, whereas most likely there were more than that. I still like the drawings in both this book and the one by Petersson's about rigging.

 

Steve, when you get to this stage, believe me rigging is intriguing.

[capnharv2]

Jay,

 

I thought the shrouds had at least 3 whippings (I beleive they're seizings). This picture implies they have as many as 5

 

 

Since I'm starting to rig the shrouds now, this was a very timely question.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey