Bilge Pumps 1870/80

[GAW]

Bilge Pumps - Wanted photo/illustration of bilge pumps of about 1870/80s (UK) for a rivet-plate & frame model of the centre section of the Falls of Clyde.  Bilge pumps are set up in pairs being of 2 or 3 chambers set up on the main deck but in line with the keel.  The pumps are missing on the Falls of Clyde, but the holes in the deck plating indicate that these two were set up with the chamber set athwart the keel.

 

For those interested in the techniques required to build this type of model, check out ‘Current Project’ at 

< www.wworkshop.net >

[Omega1234]

Hi Gerald

 

I've been a great admirer of your work ever since I first saw your models when I was a kid at school!

 

Sorry, I can't help you directly, but I'm sure someone on this Forum will be able to assist.

 

All the best

 

Patrick

[CDR_Ret]

Very nice work, Gerald. Metal can be even more unforgiving than wood at times.

 

If you would like to read an entertaining contemporary rant against this kind of vessel, take a look at the book "The Progressive Ship Builder, Vol. 1" by John W. Griffiths (1875). The book is available from Google books in various eBook formats for free.

 

He was all about staying with wooden vessels or, if we have to go to iron, then making them double-hulled. He also rails against the Lloyds vessel classification scheme at the time.

 

Terry

[wefalck]

I would suspect that Downton-pumps were fitted. These come in many varieties, here is an example from the preserved 1840s Portuguese Frigate:

 

 

In later years they were also made with cast-iron bodies. I don't have British drawings, I believe, but I think some French and German ones. I would have to check in my library.

[druxey]

See The Mechanics' Magazine, January 14, 1859, page 45 for a cutaway drawing of a Downton pump. (The Mechanics' Magazine and Journal of Engineering, Agricultural Machinery, Manufactures, and Shipbuilding, Volume 70, Google)

 

https://books.google.ca/books?id=2J0AAAAAMAAJ

Edited July 29, 2015 by druxey

[GAW]

Thank you all, particularly druxey, I did not find what I am looking for, but the Mechanics Magazines were most interesting - if I could locate some nearer 1878, they might just come up with something.  The pumps I am looking for have 3 chambers each - each with one fore and two aft, set side my side, the two aft chambers with pipes down to the Bilges - this would conform with the two cut outs in the deck plating on the Falls of Clyde.

I have recently located a deck plan of the Falls of Garry, showing the layout of just these pumps, which incidentally discharge to the rear, unlike most other bilge pumps that discharge to the side over the pump mens feet. An interesting innovation for the welfare of the pump men for the period - unless of course they were cheaper to install or more efficient.  There should be Patent drawings somewhere for this new design, I just need to locate them, and the makers name, then to his catalogue of pumps.

[druxey]

How about the Suffield pump? Also in the Mechanics' Magazine, May 20, 1859, page vi (page 577 in the Google version)? Your description sounds similar to this.

[GAW]

Thank you Druxey, could not find that one, but no matter, I have found the Cash Book for Russell & Co ship Number 17, that gives the pump makers as R.C.Wallace & Son and I have located them in a Glasgow directory of 1878 as - R.C.Wallace & Son, Broomloan Iron Works, Campbell Street, Govan. Glasgow, engineers, patent ship pump and ship windless makers and blacksmiths. - Date/name/place/products, all match - now to find the illustrations - help most welcome.

[druxey]

I've done a 'net search for any illustration of such  pump but - pardon the expression - come up dry! Would the Science Museum, Kensington, be able to assist you?

Edited August 12, 2015 by druxey

[Mahuna]

Hi Gerald - I'm very impressed with your work - thanks for the link to your page.  However, I tried the 'Current Project' icon, and it's only an image file, not a link.

[GAW]

Thank you Frank,  it appears to get temperamental at times, but if it will not open when you click the centre try closer to the edge - I just checked it and it is working fine.

[GAW]

I have now located the patent drawings for a Bilge Pump, designed and built by R.C.Wallace & Son, of the right date and configuration to fit the openings in the deck plating of the Falls of Clyde. The copy of the drawings are on order, but I have a snap shot here from the original book of the top view.  Should any one know of illustrations/photos of such a Bilge Pump design, I would be pleased to hear from them - 4 inline cylinders with a single flywheel, no A frame, the crank being mounted on the fife rails.

[druxey]

Persistence is paying off, I see! Is there a name for this pump design other than 'Wallace'?

[Mahuna]

Hi Gerald - I was able to open the gallery, and I'm amazed at the machines you built for this project.

[GAW]

No name as yet druxey, just Patent No.2736, 1869 in the name of Wallace & Crawford - I am still awaiting the text that should be with the drawings, as from what I can see it cannot work as is.  There is no crank shaft as such, just a shaft with 4 cams keyed to it, that lift the piston arms, but it appears to be left to gravity to bring the arms down, which does not seem correct, although there is a second mechanism described that could work, but does not fit the main drawings.  However all should be revealed when I get the text - I feel I am getting closer, which is just as well as the model is now only awaiting the bilge pumps to complete it.

 

Thank you Mahuna- that was nine weeks of brain storming - the actual model however has taken 11 months, at about 6 hours a day, although a lot of that time was taken up with doing things twice and three times over working through the problems, which is the fun part of model making.  All is revealed at:   http://www.wworkshop.net/Falls_of_Clyde/Menu.html

at the finish, there should be almost 400 build photo.

[GAW]

Working from the original Wallace & Crawford Patent drawings the recreated Falls of Clyde Bilge Pumps in 1/8" & 1/4" to foot scale, the former fitted to the model, the latter created as a working mechanism.  All hand made excepting the larger cams, which were machined on a friends CNC machine - I have my limitations - A very interesting mechanism for 1869 - how did they make those cams?

[druxey]

So, you were able to track down drawings of the Wallace and Crawford patent pumps. Well done! The working version, as well as the 1:96 one, looks exquisite. Congratulations.

[mtaylor]

That is some stunning machine work, Gerald.   And it works...  WoW!!!!!!

[JPZ66]

Here is a link to a thesis that some may find interesting and was / is the basis for "Ships' Bilge Pumps" , Oertling, a book published by Texas A&M University press.

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/Theses/pdf-files/Oertling-MA%201984.pdf

 

- Joe

Edited October 11, 2015 by JPZ66