Brig USS Enterprise 1799 info gathering

[Seahawk1313]

I too ordered the book.  Reminds me of a time when I helped in a small way a gentleman who was writing a book about Captain Blakeley and the Wasp.  Thanks for the note on the Enterprize book.- Hal

[uss frolick]

I just received my copy, and am starting to devour it. It is really well written and thoroughly researched. It is not a modeling book, but a fine history.

[mtaylor]

5 hours ago, uss frolick said:

I just received my copy, and am starting to devour it. It is really well written and thoroughly researched. It is not a modeling book, but a fine history.

When you've finished, do consider doing a book review.

[Bob Snowball]

I’m curious as to what the bundles of white cotton (?) looking bundles behind netting arrayed above the cannons are on a couple of the illustrations.

 

Great article and love all the research. I’m doing a Constructo model of the Enterprise at the moment. I haven’t got very far yet; just the hull and decks so far but don’t want to go far without getting some accuracy. I’m particularly interested in how the ship was painted. I’ve seen various models of her with a black lower hull with white around the gun ports, and some have painted the inboard gun ports red. Is this correct? 
 

if anyone could shed some light I would be appreciative.

 

Bob

[mtaylor]

On 12/29/2023 at 7:37 AM, Bob Snowball said:

I’m curious as to what the bundles of white cotton (?) looking bundles behind netting arrayed above the cannons are on a couple of the illustrations.

Hi Bob,

Welcome to MSW.  I suggest you do an intro in the New Member area.  

 

As for the those "bundles" it's the way the hammocks were stored while at sea.   It got them out of the way and also gave some protection to those on deck during combat.  

[Dr PR]

Has anything come of the drawing Geoffrey Footner found in the archives of the Arsenal of Venice believed to of Enterprize? Is is actually a drawing of that vessel?

[Chapman]

On 8/14/2015 at 10:06 PM, CharlieZardoz said:

Last we have the Venice plans by Andrea Salvini which look a bit odd but may very well have accuracy in some of the hull lines. This topic has been discussed before in the forum but would love to get a copy of those as well.

Hi Phil!

 

The plan, according to Italian literature, is the brig cutter Giasone. An expanded version of the cutter class type Enea based on English plans.

Edited January 1 by Chapman

[Dr PR]

Thanks. Looks like the search for the Holy Grail will have to continue!

[CharlieZardoz]

Hi yall. As the proprietor of this forum post I shall endeavour to answer. So the only real holy grail worth pursuing is this plan that was made by John Burrows supposedly under the supervision of Howard Chapelle ? It is basically a very well designed plan located at the music Seaport museum and there are actually 2 versions the 1799 and the 1805 version w the minute alterations. What you see here is not the vixen or anything looking like th constructo kit. It's a variation of the Baltimore clipper La superior  which came from the same yard/builder or somesuch. It shows a far more shallow design but also high bulwarks like for a naval brig with heavier cannon. Did not have a bowsprit at least not in the early days and while this plan is conjectur it follows the design of the ship as depicted on the corne paintings of the battle at tripoli. As far as I'm concerned this is what Enterprize looked like pretty much. 

[Chapman]

Chapelle himself presented a plan for the superior in one of his books. There is probably a english made plan and a picture of the Superieur, it is possible that the above plan reconstruction of the Enterprize 1806 is based on this plan. However, we know that, among other things, the stern of the Enterprize was rebuilt before the shipyard in Venice, so it must have originally looked different and was therefore not completely identical to the Superieur. However, there are 2 pictures ( One portside at anchor and one underway from starboard ) of the Enterprize from the Roux family from the time after the renovation in Venice and still in the Mediterranean. which then show a strong similarity to the Superieur.

Edited January 4 by Chapman

[CharlieZardoz]

I believe we mean this one yes? Also keep in mind Enterprize (with a z) had several rebuilds and hard to pin down exactly what she looked like at each turn. At some point she had a poop deck but not like the one from the constructo kit. That's poop circa 1776 not 1805 it was likely similar to what the cruiser class or frolic/peacock had and likely removed before 1812. 

 

The reason why the constructo/dikar kit looks like it does it because Vixen was ordered to be a ship of similar lines and displacement to the Enterprize however in truth she was a downscaled Syren and not at all the same type of ship. 

Edited January 4 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

11 hours ago, Chapman said:

Chapelle himself presented a plan for the superior in one of his books. There is probably a english made plan and a picture of the Superieur, it is possible that the above plan reconstruction of the Enterprize 1806 is based on this plan. However, we know that, among other things, the stern of the Enterprize was rebuilt before the shipyard in Venice, so it must have originally looked different and was therefore not completely identical to the Superieur. However, there are 2 pictures ( One portside at anchor and one underway from starboard ) of the Enterprize from the Roux family from the time after the renovation in Venice and still in the Mediterranean. which then show a strong similarity to the Superieur.

Yes thank you! You can see in that diagram how the Superior had lower bulwarks more typical to other Baltimore clipper style ships and how Burrows obviously used these lines as a basis. One could extrapolate that by the time.of her sinking Enterprize may have looked somewhat more like the Boxer class which was her replacement and that class of ship being a modernized version of the original Enterprize at least in style and function. 

[Chapman]

Quote

I believe we mean this one yes? Also keep in mind Enterprize (with a z) had several rebuilds and hard to pin down exactly what she looked like at each turn. At some point she had a poop deck but not like the one from the constructo kit. That's poop circa 1776 not 1805 it was likely similar to what the cruiser class or frolic/peacock had and likely removed before 1812. 

Yes, thats the 1799 Enterprize or Enterprise as 1806 under David Porter.

This picture by Antoine Roux actually has a text under the ship with the exact date in 1806 and David Porter as Capt. are called. Another picture by the same artist and the ship, also in 1806, shows the other side of the ship and, as I already mentioned, in motion.
These two images are the most detailed and credible images of the ship.

The number and placement of the existing gun ports are interesting.
There are 7 gun ports but obviously none, not even a locked one next to or in front of the foremast.

 

 

[CharlieZardoz]

Well you know gunboats can always be altered and added as i suspect they were at times 👌😉

[HSM]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:13 AM, CharlieZardoz said:

Hey Charlie, would you have a contact of any kind for wherever you got this set of plans? I would like to scratchbuild a 1799 Enterprise and want to buy the appropriate plans. I tried the Mystic Seaport Museum, but I couldn't find this Enterprise or anything drawn by John Burrows... Thanks for any help sourcing this! 

 

 

 

[CharlieZardoz]

Hi so the story of the plans is this. I gave up trying to go to the museum to find them at mystic then it came to my attention that in our brooklyn boat group had a copy and our head of group Dan Pariser gave his copy to one of our group members and made me a photocopy. So these copies are the only available version of the plan I know that are able to be sourced and not even sure where and when Dan got it from.

[Capt.Rick]

On 1/5/2024 at 5:59 AM, Chapman said:

Yes, thats the 1799 Enterprize or Enterprise as 1806 under David Porter.

This picture by Antoine Roux actually has a text under the ship with the exact date in 1806 and David Porter as Capt. are called. Another picture by the same artist and the ship, also in 1806, shows the other side of the ship and, as I already mentioned, in motion.
These two images are the most detailed and credible images of the ship.

The number and placement of the existing gun ports are interesting.
There are 7 gun ports but obviously none, not even a locked one next to or in front of the foremast.

 

 

 

[Capt.Rick]

 Chapman, Can you tell mw the name of this painting and what your source is, please? It looks like it is only a small part of a larger watercolor and sketch. Thank you!

[Capt.Rick]

I have found the title and a source for this print, although I'd love to get a larger color copy of it. The title is "An American Brig armed with Cannon' dated 1824, by Antoine Roux. Now, the title and the dates given for this are obviously incorrect since this is a watercolor of a schooner - not a brig - and the date places this painting well after the War of 1812. I still don't know what the original title was that Roux had given it, nor the date that this was actually painted, although 1806 is the best guess which places the location in Marseilles, France.

 

 

Edited September 15 by Capt.Rick

[uss frolick]

How again can one obtain a copy of the Burrows plans?

[CharlieZardoz]

Hii! Well basically Dan (Pariser) had a copy and gave it to me so now I have it. Not entirely sure where he got it from the origibal is in the Mysic Seaport library and is reference only. But I would be able to print a copy of my copy out at staples and mail it? Again there are actually 2 Burrows plans the 1799 and the 1803 refit of Enterprize. I have the 1803 version

[CharlieZardoz]

Also I miss you all! I'm in the middle of a messy not divorce home separation that's been coming for some time! I'm eager to get back to art once this nightmare is finally over lol. But I'm fine I realized this was coming on the horizon and why I've been so quiet these last 2 years.

[uss frolick]

Charley, I am so sorry to hear of your family problems. Once the dust has settled, you will be happier as a free agent, especially being a young fellow. The first casualties of marriage are always your hobbies, but rarely hers. At least she doesn't have a horse, like mine has.

 

I would be interested in a copy of each, if you can swing it, and I would, of course, pay any expenses.

 

 

[CharlieZardoz]

Thank you kindly my friend. I only have the 1803 full. Was given a partial image of the 1799 one but it's just a small photo. I am unsure which one of them is at the library or if both of them are there. But happy to send you the one and prep that as soon as I can. Indeed how they able to keep hobbying when we all sobby messes makes the wood wet wahh 😭😅

[Talos]

On 9/20/2024 at 7:32 AM, CharlieZardoz said:

Also I miss you all! I'm in the middle of a messy not divorce home separation that's been coming for some time! I'm eager to get back to art once this nightmare is finally over lol. But I'm fine I realized this was coming on the horizon and why I've been so quiet these last 2 years.

I'm really sorry to hear that, man. Also, sorry for not being around much myself. I went back to school, got my master's, then COVID hit, then I got a new job and also got distracted with my 3D printer, writing (I've published a few short stories!), and other stuff, so I haven't been around much recently. I feel the same way, though; I need to dig myself out and get back to all this, too.