Lightning Sailboat by Andrew J. - Dumas - Scale 1:12

[Andrew J.]

Quick question: does anybody know if you can see the texture of the deck canvas, or is it so saturated with mold and rot protection goop that it becomes a smooth surface?

[GaryKap]

Hey Andrew -

 

Isn't Lightning # 1 on display at the Skaneateles Historical Society housed in the Creamery on Fennell Street?  If so, you should go take a look for yourself.

 

I used to sail a Lightning on Skaneateles Lake fifty years ago.  As I remember, there was some texture to the canvas covered deck.  It made a sort-of non slip surface when someone was putting up or taking down the jib.

 

I am enjoying your build log.  You are doing a great job with the kit...makes me want to build one myself.

 

<<Gary>>

[Andrew J.]

Thanks for the info! I had no idea #1 was in town. Last I knew, the town of Skaneateles had no interest in buying it and it was in a museum in North Carolina or something. Well, I know where I'm going after work tomorrow!

 

Edit: I don't know why I said North Carolina. It was at the Mystic Seaport Museum in Connecticut. It has been on long-term loan from Mystic Seaport since June of 2011.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Andrew J.

[Dee_Dee]

I agree with Gary, the canvas texture is visible. Due to wear patterns, the texture varies and reflects light differently.    

 

Mold is usually a problem if your cover doesn't fit right, leaks or has poor air circulation.  

 

An old recipe for laying on new canvas:  white lead, linseed oil, turpentine, terabim and a few other bits of witches brew.  Just a bit toxic! 

 

On our Lightning, when the centerboard was drawn up, there was a 1/4" steel pin attached to the centerboard trunk by a thin cable or chain and was put through a small hole in the centerboard and acted like a 'stop'.  There were two 6" x 1/2" / 1/8" strips of steel, one on each side of the centerboard trunk that this pin rested on.  When we dropped the centerboard, there was a pin imbedded in the board that would land on this same section of 6" steel.  Back then, the centerboards were iron or brass and painted with a bronze color protective paint.   

  

As I mentioned earlier, the rudder on our Lightning was solid mahogany with a high gloss finish.  All of the Lightning's from the 1950's had a high gloss varnished mahogany rudder. If you're going to display your model at the Skaneateles Country Club, it would be fitting if it had a solid mahogany rudder.  If you don't have any mahogany stock to make the rudder, I have a stash of 1/64" mahogany strip stock I can share with you.  The strips would need to be glued up / laminated to make a solid mahogany blank in the shape of the rudder.  With multi coats of high gloss it would look like the real thing.  

 

Dee Dee

.

[Philthy]

Looks very sleek! Sharp work thus far

[Andrew J.]

Thank you, Dee Dee for sharing your great wealth of information! Do you have this good a memory for everything, or did you just really cherish that Lightning?

I am still planning on scratch building another one of these, so I will have to start building up a stash of my own wood, so I will do some research and shop around. I thank you for your kind offer, though.

I will be visiting Lightning #1 tomorrow and will take as many high quality photos of every part of the boat as I can. I will also take measurements of deck and rigging fittings and such so I know exactly what aftermarket stuff to buy.

[Andrew J.]

Well, I went to see #1 today! I took 114 pictures and I wish I could show you all of them, but that would be a little ridiculous, so I'll just upload a few. It's a big boat in a small space, so it was hard to get a good picture of the whole thing, but I was able to get all the pictures and measurements that I wanted.

After seeing the real thing, and after some thought, I think it would be best to complete this model as a practice run and keep it for myself, due to all of the inaccuracies of the kit that I can do nothing about at this point (but that doesn't mean that I won't complete it to the best of my ability). It will then be my goal to scratch build another one, as I have mentioned, and model it after #1. That one I will give to the Country Club, where members who really do know their way around a Lightning can scrutinize it and appreciate its accuracy.

Anyway, here are some pictures.

[wlell]

Andrew:

It would be great if you could include pertinent pictures of Blitzen as you proceed with your build. That way we could compare the kit boat with the prototype.

I am really enjoying your work!

Bill

[Andrew J.]

Andrew:

It would be great if you could include pertinent pictures of Blitzen as you proceed with your build. That way we could compare the kit boat with the prototype.

I am really enjoying your work!

Bill

Good idea! I'll see what I can do.

[Andrew J.]

Adventures in soldering: my first pintles.

I've done electrical soldering for years, but I've never worked with brass. I figured I might as well see if electrical solder would work on brass, and so far, it's worked just fine!

So here's mine:

 

And here's Blitzen's

 

Since I decided this will be my practice model, I just used the birch plywood for the rudder, but when I build the Blitzen replica, I will use mahogany.

[Andrew J.]

One gudgeon down, one to go. But now it's time for bed.

[wlell]

Nice!! Thank you for the comparison photos..

Bill

[Andrew J.]

Both gudgeons done. The second one was a lot easier since I was able to piece it together in a more logical order. Since taking these pictures I have countersunk the nail heads, and on final assembly I will paint all the fittings bronze.

Her silhouette is almost complete. The next step is to complete the cockpit coaming, which I got about half done a week ago, and then got distracted.

[Andrew J.]

Ok, maybe I'll work on the coaming tomorrow. I was still kind of the mood to fiddle with brass, so I figured I'd take a whack at the headstay fitting. I think it was the single trickiest piece of a model of anything I've ever worked on. It's made of three pieces, and whenever I tried to solder the third piece on, the bond between the first two would come undone. It was a royal pain, but I eventually figured it out.

[pete48]

Nice looking Boat Andrew, your build is very inspiring

 

Best Regards,

Pete

[Andrew J.]

Sorry I haven't posted anything in a few days; I've been busy buying a new car. Well, not NEW, but certainly newer than my '98 Acura Integra. It's an '07 Honda Civic.

Anyway, I thought I'd post a picture of this document that I thought some people might find interesting.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Andrew J.

[wlell]

Andrew

How about posting some more pictures of the 1:1 while we eagerly await your build updates?

Bill

[Andrew J.]

Andrew

How about posting some more pictures of the 1:1 while we eagerly await your build updates?

Bill

 

I suppose I could, but the rest of the pictures are just extreme close-ups of deck and mast fittings with a tape measure held up next to them. Really nothing terribly exciting.

[michael mott]

 

I suppose I could, but the rest of the pictures are just extreme close-ups of deck and mast fittings with a tape measure held up next to them. Really nothing terribly exciting.

Andrew I beg to differ on this point. some of us drool at pictures like that

Nice work on the kit model by the way.

And yes I to am looking forward to your getting into the scratch building of one of these beauties, I think you should build it to 1:8 scale that way it would be 28 1/2 inches long which would be stunning. I would also think that 1:12 would be nice too at 19 inches.

 

Michael

[Andrew J.]

You have read my mind, Michael! I have indeed been planning on doing my scratch build in 1:8. I would really love to do it in 1:6, but I think that would be a little too expensive, and I don't think there would be enough space for it in the spot I have in mind.

[Andrew J.]

Is there any part of the boat in particular anybody wants to see? I have so many pictures and they're all so random because I didn't take them in any sort of order and I'm not really sure how many I should put up. You can't have my table of offsets, though; that's privileged information.

Speaking of offsets, I was able to copy down the table from the blueprints displayed at the museum, and I also purchased the booklet "How to Build a Lightning" from the ILCA, as it was only $10. It is very well detailed and I'm beginning to think that between these resources, I might not need the full plans after all. There are just a few things the book doesn't cover very well, so I'll keep fishing around for used plans just in case.

[michael mott]

Andrew perhaps you could just start at the bow and work toward the stern, post a few at a time with a description.

 

Michael

[sailboat392]

Good Luck!

I'm building this model right now too. I've taken the basic hull from the kit to use as my base, but I'm modifying and adding to the trim to match Lightning #392, that I used to own. I've cut the full bulkheads so they appear as ribs and the running lines can pass thru the forward one. My plan is to have all the running lines working as they do on the real boat. I've also "canvased" the deck. Right now, I'm searching for a source for 1:12 turnbuckles for the mast stays. Any suggestions?

My advice is to apply multiple coats of sanding sealer to the mahogany before final finishing to eliminate the deep grain.

I also suggest that the upper shrouds, which are solid wire, be replaced with line similar to what you are using for the others. 

BTW: the thin lines in the photos are temporary. They are placed so I can attach the final lines to them and pull thru later in the build.

[wlell]

Sailboat392

I really like your cockpit modifications. The hull finish looks great too.

What brand sanding sealer did you use?

Bill

Birmingham, AL

[sailboat392]

Andrew

Just another quick note about Lightning #1. I was lucky enough to crew on her when she showed up on Hinkley Lake (north of Utica NY and just before the owner went to prison..That's a story in itself). I also sailed with her at the 60th Regatta. Remember, #1 was a prototype and a few details did not remain on the later production models...so use your photo documentation well. Another interesting note about these woodies: The bottoms were doubled planked and needed to be "swelled tight" each season. This meant sinking them in 2 feet of water and leaving them there for a week. There was no way to bail fast enough without doing that first.

[sailboat392]

wlell

Cabots quick dry sanding sealer

[Andrew J.]

Thank you so much for your post, sailboat392! Those pictures are just about the best encouragement to finish my model that I could ask for. I hope mine will turn out as beautiful as yours. Did you replace the kit balsa for the frames and CB trunk with mahogany, or just stain it? You also said you canvased the deck. What did you use? I was planning on using either cotton sail material or a white cotton t-shirt.

These are the turnbuckles I used: http://www.harbormodels.com/site08/turnbuckles2.htm

They don't exactly look accurate, but they're the closest in scale length I could find (use the ones with a 10mm body). I actually have twice as many as I need here because at the time I ordered them, I had planned on scratch building my next one in 1:12, but am now planning on doing it in 1:8. If you're interested, send me a PM with your address and I would be more than happy to send you 6 of them for a discount from what I paid for them.

[sailboat392]

(sorry if this is posted twice..i'm new here)

 

Andrew

Thanks for the offer on the turn buckles. The one's you have are not a match to the type used in 1938/#392, which had an open housing instead of the tube type. I found no resource for the canvas, although there MUST be one somewhere. I used the thinnest fabric I could find with a weave that would not get lost in the painting. I stretched it over a wood frame and lightly spray painted it, front and back, till i got an even coat. If the pain got a bit heavy in spots, I quickly rubbed it down with a cloth/paint thinner. Painting it first it the way to go. I used white glue to bed it. I've yet to attach the rub rails.

This is my second build of this model, my first try was 20 years ago. Back then, the frames were made of mahogany plywood. I wish that had kept that because one of my balsa frames broke during the setup, putting a slight warp in the deck line between the last frame and the stern. Luckily, i was able to correct this with the thinnest of deck wedge across the stern deck. This sin is hidden by the canvas. I've stained the centerboard trunk.

I'm impressed with your "S" bow fitting. For mine, I covered the bow with Saran Wrap and used bondo to form the rough shape, I'm in the process of sculpting it to shape..my third try. 

One hint: The keel top (K3) behind the centerboard trunk sits up to the same height as the floor boards. You'll want to pare this down and cover with a flooring strip to achieve the best look.

Additional photos below.

Stern detail includes the drawer i added to my real boat and was not standard.

These old woodies needed to be kept wet to stay tight, a copper paint was used below the waterline.

 

Here's a thought. Instead of building 1:8 next, why not try 1:1?

[Andrew J.]

Thank you for all the awesome tips. I know those turnbuckles don't match, but they're the only type that I have found anywhere that fit this scale. This guy (http://www.modelyachtfittings.com/Pages/TURNBUCKLES.aspx) makes open housing turnbuckles, but the smallest one he makes is 1 inch long, which would only be correct on a 1:4ish scale boat. It seems if you want accurate turnbuckles, you'll have to scratch build them and forego functionality. The ones I have, however inaccurate, are fully functional, which is a trade-off I am willing to accept.

[sailboat392]

Andrew

How do you plan to attach the sail at the Luff and the Foot? The kit is really set up for "pond boar" mode at the mast and the boom. I'm not a fan of displaying the cloths, as I feel the artistry of the standing and running rigging shows better. On the lightning, I'm just using copper tape to represent the tracks and showing the boat "at mooring", unless you can lead me to a better solution.

I took a different approach on my Dark Harbor 17, using thick line to create an outline of the sail plan. This allowed me to follow my instinct to not include the sail, but show the gaff and jib spars in "on water" position.