MS Fair American rigging plan leaves alot to be desired.

[JPAM]

there are items on the deck view plans that are missing from the full scale rigging plans, vise versa, and guys that should be there omitted altogether. Regardless I have two queries; 1; where would the pad eye on the deck be for the main stay, ie. how far back from the bow, and does it pass the fore mast port or starboard. 2; the stays are supposed to rest over the shrouds but I like to start rigging on the inside  and thus rig the stays first. is that bad? does it matter? 

jp 

Edited November 18, 2016 by JPAM

[allanyed]

JP

 

Based on a quick Google search I believe there is a contemporary model of Fair American at Preble Hall on which modern kit plans are supposedly based.  I do not recall seeing it myself on my few visits, but I am sure they can let you know. There is said to be no contemporary set of plans in existence.   You might want to try to contact Preble Hall for some help.  I think there is still a model club known as the volunteer model shipwrights that meets there in the museum shop (oh my, what a nice shop they have to use) and possibly they can help you.    Go to the Preble Hall website and it will get you started. museummodels@usna.edu

 

Allan 

Edited November 19, 2016 by allanyed

[VinceMcCullough]

Allan is correct. The model of the FA at the Naval Academy museum is the basis for all existing model plans. I believe the model is still on display, but if not, I'm sure the curator (Don Preul) would be willing to pull it from storage if you decide to visit.

 

Vince McCullough

Edited November 19, 2016 by Vince McCullough

[Chuck]

Check out the gallery which has many photos of that contemporary model.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/gallery/album/448-fair-american-rogers-collection-annapolis/

[amateur]

And with respect to your second question: rigging the stay before the shroulds: is it bad?

Depends, when you want to be historically accurate, it is bad. Very bad indeed

On a more technical point of view: I don't think it can do much harm.

But: as far as I can see there is no advantage of rigging the stay before the shrouds, so why not doing it in the 'historically correct' way?

 

Jan

[Vic Serafini]

Allan is correct. The model of the FA at the Naval Academy museum is the basis for all existing model plans. I believe the model is still on display, but if not, I'm sure the curator (Don Preul) would be willing to pull it from storage if you decide to visit.

 

Vince McCullough

I am putting sails on my model of the Fair American adding details not shown on their edition of the plans.  They also do not give any info on putting on sails, or the running rigging that is necessary for them  I have written to Don Preul at the Naval Academy museum via e-mail and he promised he would help me with some detailed photos of the sails' running rigging, but so far NOTHING.  Several  follow-up e-mails and NO RESPONSE.  So much for help from the Naval Academy Museum.  Is there any other approach to getting any info from the Naval Academy Museum?

So far all I have been able to do is consult 1) Steel's Elements of Mastmaking, Sailmaking and Rigging, 2) Lever's Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor, 3) Nautical Routine; Spars and Rigging, and 4) Dr. Anderson's books.  But most info relates to larger 3-maste ships.

[Vic Serafini]

I am putting sails on my model of the Fair American adding details not shown on their edition of the plans.  They also do not give any info on putting on sails, or the running rigging that is necessary for them  I have written to Don Preul at the Naval Academy museum via e-mail and he promised he would help me with some detailed photos of the sails' running rigging, but so far NOTHING.  Several  follow-up e-mails and NO RESPONSE.  So much for help from the Naval Academy Museum.  Is there any other approach to getting any info from the Naval Academy Museum?

So far all I have been able to do is consult 1) Steel's Elements of Mastmaking, Sailmaking and Rigging, 2) Lever's Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor, 3) Nautical Routine; Spars and Rigging, and 4) Dr. Anderson's books.  But most info relates to larger 3-maste ships.

[michaelpsutton2]

It will be interesting to see what Grant Walker has to say about the "Fair American" in what should be his third volume on the models at Preble Hall. I understand that there is some question as to what vesel the model actually depicts.

Edited December 18, 2016 by michaelpsutton2

[Roger Pellett]

Actually, there is a lot of published information available on the rigging of the Fair American. The Nautical Research Guild published a series of articles twenty years ago or so on this topic. My recollection of the articles is that the Naval Academy's model was rerigged in the 1920's by Charles Davis who included many anachrostic features such as a dolphin striker not used at the time when the ship was in service. Therefore, if you are making a model of the Naval Academy model the rigging doesn't represent actual practice anyway. Reprints are cheap. Look on their web site.

 

On the other hand at one time the MS model kit included a monograph written by Eric Ronnberg. Eric is a thorough and meticulous researcher. And if your kit still uses Eric's plans and instructions I would be surprised if a lot of information is missing. If not, you might want to track down Eric's monograph and plans.

 

Roger

[thibaultron]

Ships In Scale also sells a CD "Progressive Building" that has a practicum on their former editors build of the her.

[John Cheevers]

Here is a photograph I took of Fair America in Preble hall back in 2015. As you can see hte camera and the photographer have a lot to be desired. Hopefully you can trace the rigging paths.

[JPAM]

the kit I have wich was bought last year still has the monograph by Erick Ronnberg, and yes, he has a great reputation there is no denying that. the plans were, 'revised' in 1977 and are in sore need to be revised again. examples of missing info are; the plans call for Chess-trees but the rigging plan has nothing going through them. the boomkins have nothing on them on the rigging plan, blocks that should be under the fighting tops are not anywhere mentioned, just to name a few. 

 

none of this is a big deal as all the information can be found in books or looking about the web IF you know what you are looking for. this lack of information is what usually turns off newbies to the hobby, and or shelfs a build half way to completion. 

I don't really quite mind as the challenge forces me to learn rigging better. I just wanted to bring this up as an FYI to anyone wanting to build this ship. 

[michaelpsutton2]

Does anyone know how old the sails are?

[bdb]

Sorry for the late reply, hope this is still useful:

1. The padeye for the main stay is shown and labeled on the inboard profile, about as far forward as you can get.

2. Plans show main stay passing to port of foremast. I suspect there's some sort of chaffing piece involved but I'll have to refer to Steel's rigging book, or James Lees work.

Chess trees and boomkins are for the tacks of the fore and main course's. Blocks under the tops are for the leech and buntlines. All this is sail handeling gear.

 

The kit plans state that the rigging is based upon Steels Elements of Mastmaking Saililmaking and Rigging. Plans do not show sails or their gear but are easily added by referring to Steel. Cheap reprints are available.

 

Also, check out, Model Ship Builder Magazine (Articles available on CD at Nautical Research Guild website.) for

"Completing the Fair American", Clayton Feldman,               Part 1, #47: pp 13-22

                                                                                                                Part 2, #48: pp 14-23

                                                                                                                Part 3, #49: pp 16-26

                                                                                                                Part 4, #50: pp 37-45

                                                                                                                Part 5, #51: pp 3-17

                                                                                                                Part 6, #52: pp 50-55

                                                                                                                Part 7, #53: pp 48-56

 

Other good books include:

 

“Modeling the Brig of War Irene” EW Petrejus, 1970

“The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625-1860” James Lees, 1984

“Young Sea Officers Sheet Anchor” Darcy Lever, 1819

“The Fully Framed Model, Volume 4, Rigging a Sixth Rate Sloop of War 1767-1780”, David Antscherl, 2010

 

 

[bdb]

Sails, best I can tell, were added in 1922 by Frederick Avery. But there's still some controversy.

 

Nautical Research Journal (article reprints available from their website)

 

In Search of Fair American, Art Herrick    Part 1, vol 45: pp 133-140

                                                                                Part 2, vol 45: pp 213-232

                                                                                Part 3, vol 46: pp 3-11

Fair American Sails, Sid Siegel, vol 46: pp 240