Soleil Royal by Hubac's Historian - Heller - An Extensive Modification and Partial Scratch-Build

[Hubac's Historian]

Hi EJ - thanks for weighing in!  Yes, definitely, the camera exaggerates the degree of shine. I just use my iphone to take pictures, which are decent, but highly dependent upon whatever ambient light I have going. 

[Hubac's Historian]

Planking is FUN!!

 

[druxey]

Well, it is on a perfectly flat surface. Wait until you plank the lower counter, HH.

[Hubac's Historian]

Baby steps.  Baaaby steps 😀

[Old Collingwood]

15 hours ago, Hubac's Historian said:

Thanks, EJ, and thank you, O.C!

 

To answer your question:  if I were actually representing bare wood, then, absolutely, I would flatten the sheen.  When I get to them, the upper decks will have a flat finish.

 

On French ships, though, the planking between the wales would have been painted as a means of protecting all of the iron fastenings.

 

Although the distressed color I have arrived at is very wood-like, it is intended to represent “ventre-de-biche,” or belly of the doe.

 

In reality, 17th Century paints would also probably have had a flat finish.  When I made my sample work-up, I tried flattening the sheen, which was a little too burnished, after distressing with the oil paint and a chip brush.

 

I didn’t like the result;  the dull-coat seemed to rob the surface of all it’s depth and vitality.  The matte spray medium that I ended up using is a sort of middle-ground between dead flat and a lustrous burnish.  This is a preference that satisfies me, and the pictures don’t quite capture the effect accurately.  It looks better, in person.

 

I am still debating whether to flatten the finish of the wales.  I may yet do that.  What I wonder, though, is whether the “black stuff” would not have had an oily appearance, considering the ingredients that it was made up from.

 

Anyway, a little more research, there, should help clarify that question.  Please feel free to weigh-in, anyone, if you have a theory or an answer to that one.

 

All the best,

 

Marc

Thank you for explaining that   - you are doing a really nice job  and you research  is really paying off.

 

OC.

[yancovitch]

regarding the shine or flatness of the hull, i kinda imagine i'm a seagull back in time, flying near the ship and i try to imagine what it looked like from above, like someone looking at a model.....though i haven't checked photos of replicas of ancient ships to see how they looked....just an interesting perspective...........

[Hubac's Historian]

I kind of like the imagery of your head on a seagull’s body, Vic.  Please - just don’t bomb the ship!😂

[md1400cs]

Mark --- just catching up 

[yancovitch]

sure anything i could bomb shouldn't even be noticeable in midst of so much brilliance😀......

Edited November 10, 2019 by yancovitch

[EJ_L]

I'm so used to seeing wood planks that when you said you were planking, it took me a second to stop looking for wood and see the white plastic plank.

 

I rather enjoy planking myself.It can become monotonous, especially on these larger vessels, but it is also what gives them their shape and seeing that turn out is very rewarding.

[Hubac's Historian]

Thank you to everyone for your likes and comments, and thank you MD!

 

Yes, EJ, the process of making and fitting bulkheads seemed okay, theoretically, but I was a little skeptical about how my planking would ultimately resolve into the plank rebate, along the hull sides.

 

In the end, I will have to file the outer hull flush with the new transom planking and re-scribe the joints into the plank ends, but that’s a small price to pay.

 

The next big litmus test for this build will be - as Druxey notes - planking the stern counter, which is a subtle reverse curve.  And I will likely be modifying the profile of those false balcony extensions, once again, to match the profile I drew for the quarter galleries.  It is that shape I drew, after all, that will be used to pattern the upper bulkhead formers that are spaced between the stern windows.

 

After that, though, I get to see whether I can re-cycle the kit’s stern windows to make up the six-window span.  At the moment, I have no fewer than three stern plates to cut from, thanks to Henry and Guy.  That will give me enough spare stock to figure out how best to bend the windows to the round-up curvature.  As Daffy has done with his Victory, I will also be thinning the window mullions down so that they don’t appear so heavy.

 

Hopefully, if all goes well the new windows will look like this photo-copy cut and paste job:

In truth, a part of me would prefer to make the lowest tier from scratch, in order to achieve a closer fidelity to the size and shape of what Berain drew.  There is also the consideration that the windows of the QGs will all be made from scratch, and will be slightly different from Heller’s version.  I’m not sure that bothers me enough to ignore the time-savings of recycling.

 

The other variance with what was likely the reality of the ship would be the placement of the two stern balcony access doors on the middle and upper balcony.  The following survey drawings were made of the ship’s actual interior, in 1688, while the re-build was well underway:

Perhaps I can do a little surgical gymnastics to match this, or just bash the doors from scratch, into their proper locations.  I just haven’t put any real thought into it yet.

[druxey]

I suspect making new frames for the lights would be quicker and less frustrating than trying to get consistent results thinning the existing ones.

[Hubac's Historian]

You are probably right about that, David.  I am going to have to pattern the QG windows, anyway, so it will be better if these lower windows match, as they wrap from stern to quarter.

 

We shall see - I’ll do some preliminary experiments, when the time comes, and I’ll see where to go from there.

[Hubac's Historian]

So, David, I’ve been thinking about your proposal for making the stern windows from scratch.

 

With just a little drafting, I can layout windows for all three levels that are a seamless transition in window width, both vertically and horizontally; i.e. on each level, the window width should increase from the center to outboard.  Heller has minimized this variance.

 

My thought was that I could scribe my window layout into 1/32”, or slightly less, styrene sheet and cut the mullions directly into that base sheet level.  I would then cut a secondary layout into a separate 1/32” sheet for the window frame surrounds.  There will most likely be some degree of moulding/shaping these window surrounds.

 

Finally, I could “glaze” the windows with that liquid glazing compound that you brush on, after painting.  The major benefits of this approach would be that I wouldn’t have to attempt to heat-bend 40+year moulded styrene to conform to the roundup, nor would I have to uniformly file the mullions thinner.  The thin  styrene sheet will glue easily to the bulkheads.  I would still recycle the  bell-flower pilasters between windows, though.

 

My construction approach would more or less mirror what Tanneron did on this damaged model of L’Agreable:

Edited November 15, 2019 by Hubac's Historian

[Chapman]

Hello Marc!

 

There is a new book published by Ancre  on the French first and second rates.

 

The Saint-Philippe and the first-rates under Louis XIII to Louis XIV

Just right for Christmas.  Unfortunately at the moment only in French

Well then... , Joyeux noel!

[Hubac's Historian]

Hello, Chapman!  Yes, thank you for the reference.  I recently saw a review of this book on Les Trois Ponts:

 

https://troisponts.net/2019/11/04/les-saint-philippe-et-les-vaisseaux-de-1er-rang-de-louis-xiii-a-louis-xiv/
 

This does, indeed, look like one for the collection.

[druxey]

I've had success in the past by scoring clear acetate sheet and putting a little dark grey acrylic (not black!) into the scores.

[Hubac's Historian]

Oh, okay - I like this idea!  The thing about making all of the windows from scratch that intimidates me is the mullions.

 

So, David, is it a matter of painting the grey acrylic over the whole surface and then wiping away with a non-marring solvent (I guess, water, in this case) or is it bleeding acrylic into the score marks with a very fine brush?

Edited November 20, 2019 by Hubac's Historian

[amateur]

No, don’t use a fluid, just wipe away  with a cloth (or paper towel)

(And use a fairly thich aint)

It leaves just enough to suggest the lead strips between the glazing.

jan

[Hubac's Historian]

Oh, this is excellent!  Thank you Jan.  The more I consider it, it will forever annoy me if the stern windows don’t match the windows I make for the quarter galleries.

 

Dan Pariser always describes this project as my attempt to make a silk purse from a sow’s ear.  In some ways, I suppose he is right about that, although I happen to think a little more of the Heller kit.   I would certainly be trending towards the latter, though, if my windows are obviously mis-matched.

 

I apologize to those of you who have sent me extra stern plates for the sake of using the windows, but do not despair.  I will still be extracting all of the really delicate bell-flower ornaments on the pilasters between windows.  Also, the Zodiac symbols from the taffrail cornice.

[Baker]

Great work on this model

I am not such an expert in windows on ship models. But this is how I made mine (post 178) 

 

[Hubac's Historian]

Backer - thank you for the compliment and for the link to your fine build.  You really achieved excellent and highly realistic results with your approach.

 

Considering the sheer number of windows that I have to make, though, I am inclined to try the less labor-intensive approach first.

 

Both methods require scribing the pattern, but wiping away excess acrylic should be fairly easy and provide just as good a result.

 

Sometimes, as I did last night while continuing to plank my stern, I think to myself: “Damn!  This sure is a whole lot of extra effort just to include the roundup detail and an extra tier of stern windows.”

 

Then I remind myself that it is the completely modified stern that will become the focal point of the finished model, and what transforms it from the familiar Heller kit into something entirely different.  If I can pull off the stern, that should minimize attention to those aspects of the kit that I can not modify and/or correct.

 

The progress is slow, but the effort still feels well worthwhile to me.  If nothing else, I have developed a much deeper appreciation for the guys that make everything from scratch.

 

We are getting there - one little bit at a time.

[druxey]

Yes, I used the paint-and-wipe method with a slightly damp Q-tip.

[shipmodel]

Hi Marc - 

 

Have you considered laying on a plastic mesh over a flat clear plastic? 

Turn it 45 degrees for a diamond pattern like Tanneron's.

Here is one possible mesh from Amazon - it is 4" x 4" and has 28 x 28 cells, or 7 cells per inch. 

https://www.amazon.com/Darice-10-Piece-Square-Plastic-Canvas/dp/B0018N29Z2/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=plastic+mesh&qid=1574305574&sr=8-5 

10 pieces for $2.25 if you are being frugal.

I don't know if this mesh is fine enough, but there were lots of others.

 

And if you continue as you have begun, this will be a silk purse fit for Marie Antoinette.

 

Dan

 

[Hubac's Historian]

Hi Dan!  Thank you for the kind words.  This is another interesting approach.  For stand-alone windows, I think this would work really well.

 

In my opinion, part of what makes the Berain stern drawing so successful is that there is hardly a line out of place - even with respect to the mullions.

Horizontally, they follow the camber, while running a consistent line from one pane to the next.  Vertically, they run a widening taper that follows the tumblehome, and increasing width of the panes, from centerline to outboard.  The beauty of the scribing approach is that I have already made a camber pattern that I can use to scribe horizontally, across the window panes.

 

Last night, I revisited my original drawing, in order to map out the available space for the window layout.  This was an interesting exercise, considering my initial approach to laying down the first drawing.  I gained some useful insight into what I supposed the profile of the stern would be, as opposed to the reality of what I am  building.

What’s good is that my windows do increase slightly, in width, as the transom becomes wider.

 

Mostly, I anticipated the correct height of the stern balconies, beneath each tier of windows.  I did realize, though, after examining my QG cutout, against the hull, that I will need to increase the height of my QG windows at the lowest, middle deck level, by 1/16”, in order that my main deck QG rail will rise to the top of the upper main wale, where the amortisement begins.  Doing so, will provide the dimensional consistency, in window height, that is crucial on this level because the windows wrap from stern to quarter.

 

My other main observation, though, was that the space available between the plank ends of the ship sides tapers to an 1/8” less, at this middle balcony (main deck) rail, than I had originally accounted for in my drawing.

 

This actually has a negligible affect on the space available for my window layout, but I do have to make some slight adjustments at this lower level.

 

Anyway, I’ll draw a layout for the lowest tier of windows, for now, because I know exactly what the available space is there.

 

Eventually, when I attach the upper bulwarks, I will draw layouts for the middle and upper gallery windows.  No matter what, I will end up with a closer approximation of Berain’s intent than what the Heller kit provides for.  My lower tier will appear taller than Berain’s, though, and that is simply one of the constraints of the kit architecture that I can not avoid.

 

I’m still detailing the quarter and poop deck gun carriages.  Once those are complete, I will focus on this lower tier window layout.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Hubac's Historian

[Hubac's Historian]

Happy Friday, MSW!

 

Over this past weekend, I was browsing through builds I hadn’t seen before, when I found this:

 

The log is brief and the model is complete, so it is not likely to receive much future traffic.  It is so outstanding, though, that I figured fans of kit-bashing would really enjoy seeing this, if they haven’t already found it on their own.

 

This guy George Kapas is a true pro!

[GeorgeKapas]

Thank you for your kind words!  They are especially important to me coming from someone so skillfull and knowledgeable about the subject. I have followed your thread here as well, the depth of your research is astonishing! Unfortunately I'm not online very often and I omit to both learn from and praise the great work everyone does here.... I will try to be more diligent, follow you and everyone else more closely and finally open threads for the new builds as well. 

[Hubac's Historian]

Thank you so much, George!  What else are you working on these days?

[GeorgeKapas]

Heller's Royal Louis for me, and some other commissions for a historian friend, a kitbash of IMAI's Galeass which rather changes the ship's profile quite a bit, as well as a conversion of Heller's Golden Hint into the Tyger. Sovereign is a bit on hold. I would really love to get my hands on a Soleil Royal just like you magnificent model here. 

[Hubac's Historian]

The Heller Royal Louis is a terrific model, and much can be done to add missing detail. Will you be starting a build log for her?

 

I’m gonna PM you on a separate matter.