USS Constitution by JSGerson - Model Shipways Kit No. MS2040

[mtbediz]

7 hours ago, JSGerson said:

I had mentioned to Unegawahya that maybe the problem was that I had cheap drill bits, and they weren’t properly hardened, so I ordered new (and hopefully better) bits for both sizes I was using. I am waiting for them to arrive.

 

In the event, the new bits are not helpful, I have a Plan B, substituting plastic stock in lieu of brass. Specifically Evergreen Polystyrene No. 153 (1.5mm / 0.060” square). It’s easy to cut, drill, and its surface is very smooth like metal, but it needs to be painted. Since these fabricated parts will be very small, I am hoping the change in material won’t be too noticeable. And I have a Plan C, tight grain hardwood like Boxwood, but wood must be cut to size and pieces that small are very easy to split. So, while waiting on the order drill bits, I’ll work on something else.

I solved this problem by purchasing the drill bits on the link below from Aliexpress. I recommend it.

 

https://tr.aliexpress.com/item/32861744539.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.4.63923d12uWMMlA&gatewayAdapt=glo2tur

Edited October 26 by mtbediz

[JSGerson]

I took your advice and ordered the set you linked to in your post. Hopefully,, between my original order and this one, I'll have some bits that can bite!

[Der Alte Rentner]

I wish I could recall exactly where I saw it, but in the last week or two, I read somewhere that these canopy frames could be omitted.  I thought I saw a note in the copy of the plans I have at the Shipyard, but since I have a second set at home, I thought I'd make sure my memory was not faulty.  Sadly, the old grey cells, they ain't what they used to be.  The plans themselves don't seem have this note in them.  The instructions for the kit say to omit them if they are too difficult to fabricate, but that's not the note I SWEAR I saw.   😕

 

I must admit they do look nice when done right.  So, go for it Jon. 

 

The only thing I can think to contribute to the conversation at this point is to see if you can't find a really sharp pointed tool, like an awl, and poke a divot into the brass rod - use the awl like a center punch.  But given the materials you're dealing with here, this may be equally as challenging.

 

Slow and steady is indeed the way to go with drilling, if the center punch technique works.  Good luck!

 

 

[JSGerson]

Peter, I have a 1900 photo of the ship when she was covered with a wooden housing structure, and even then she had the canopy brass. In this configuration she was a training ship and then a receiving ship. I don't think tourists were visiting the ship then which would mean the canopies were original to the function of a working naval ship. That means to me, they are not optional.

 

If others model makers could do it, so can I.  I may not have all the proper tools. but I do have tenacity😬. BTW, I did try using an awl, but at these scales, it was like using a blunt instrument and made no workable impression. I found that using push pins did make a light impression, but my drill bits just didn't want to play nice. Still waiting on the new bits to arrive.

 

Jon

[mtbediz]

On 10/26/2024 at 4:49 PM, JSGerson said:

I took your advice and ordered the set you linked to in your post.

These can never be bent, but remember that since they are hardened metal, they are more brittle. They require more careful work.

Edited October 28 by mtbediz

[Unegawahya]

This was my tool set for drilling all of the squares for my stanchions and my hand payed the price. Also, all of my square joiners were hollow. Because they were hollow it made it easier to drill the holes then cut that section off of the rest. I apologize if I wasn’t clear about that earlier.

[JSGerson]

I can believe your hand ached, been there done that. That is one reason I tried using the Dremel. Also, I wanted to ensure that I got a straight and true drill hole, which is the reason I used the drill stand. If I understood you correctly, where did you get square cross-section brass bar with that were hollow? I'm still waiting for the drill bits I originally ordered plus the ones Mustafa suggested. If those bits bite into the brass, the fabrication process should be much easier if not tedious.

 

Jon

[Unegawahya]

2 hours ago, JSGerson said:

I can believe your hand ached, been there done that. That is one reason I tried using the Dremel. Also, I wanted to ensure that I got a straight and true drill hole, which is the reason I used the drill stand. If I understood you correctly, where did you get square cross-section brass bar with that were hollow? I'm still waiting for the drill bits I originally ordered plus the ones Mustafa suggested. If those bits bite into the brass, the fabrication process should be much easier if not tedious.

 

Jon

I’ve bought all of my brass from True Value and our local hobby store Hobby Hut. It should be the same manufacturer as the brass you ordered. 

[JSGerson]

I have never seen that brass item (1/16" square cross section, round hollow section) at Hobby Lobby or Hobby Town, my only local shopping choices. Hobby Lobby is mostly a crafts store and my local Hobby Town (30 miles away) is mostly an RC and toy store. Even online, I haven't seen that item. What is the K&S No.?

 

Jon

[GGibson]

1 hour ago, JSGerson said:

I have never seen that brass item at Hobby Lobby or Hobby Town...  I haven't seen that item. What is the K&S No.?

 

Jon

I'm very interested in that info, as well, Unegawahya!  I have only been able to purchase the smaller scale brass rods and tubes (circular, not square) directly from K&S, although I have seen some inventory, but never the scale I was looking for, on sites like onlinemetals.com and metalsupermarkets.com.  Appreciate the follow-up! 

[Unegawahya]

Sorry for the delay in responding! I’ve driven about 1100 miles in the last two days at work. 
I found the 1/16” brass square tubes on the Hobby Lobby website! They also have then online at Ace Hardware.

https://www.hobbylobby.com/crafts-hobbies/hobbies-collecting/tools-blades/brass-tubes/p/bt74474

[JSGerson]

Thanks for your efforts, but the link you provided is for round tube. You got lucky in finding square tubing with a round inside. I've been to the K&S site, Ace Hardware site, Hobby Lobby site, and Google in general; no luck. I did get my first order of new drill bits, so I'll see how that goes soon.

 

Jon

[Unegawahya]

🤦‍♂️ 

I apologize for that. Your right. Here is the link for ace hardware. If you have a one where you live they may have them in stock. https://www.acehardware.com/departments/hardware/metal-sheets-and-rods/brass-tubes/5172622

I also looked and I don’t think the inside of mine have a round hole. I’m thinking it’s just the way I’ve been cleaning the cut edge.

[GGibson]

Jon, do you think something like this square brass tube from K&S would work for you?  With dimensions of 1/16" OD x 0.014" wall, even though it appears to be a square opening inside rather than round, if I'm doing calculations correctly, that would mean the interior hole would be slightly less than 1/32" square?  Is that small enough for what you are needing?

 

Square Brass Tube: 1/16" OD x 0.014" Wall x 12" Long (2 Pieces) – ksmetals

[JSGerson]

Oh well, it was wishful thinking. Shipyard shut down today due to noise pollution. I am having my 20yr old roof replaced, and there are eight guys with hammers banging away on my roof. They should be finished by the end of the day.

 

Jon

[GGibson]

1 hour ago, JSGerson said:

I am having my 20yr old roof replaced, and there are eight guys with hammers banging away on my roof.

 

DO YOU WANT US TO TALK LOUDER?!?!?  🤷‍♀️🤣

 

Hope the roof replacement project goes well! 

[JSGerson]

Do you know sign language? I might be going deaf!!!😝

[Unegawahya]

4 hours ago, GGibson said:

Jon, do you think something like this square brass tube from K&S would work for you?  With dimensions of 1/16" OD x 0.014" wall, even though it appears to be a square opening inside rather than round, if I'm doing calculations correctly, that would mean the interior hole would be slightly less than 1/32" square?  Is that small enough for what you are needing?

 

Square Brass Tube: 1/16" OD x 0.014" Wall x 12" Long (2 Pieces) – ksmetals

You are correct. The inside diameter is about 1/32”. I was using 1/32” brass wire for the vertical supports for for my stanchions and the horizontals I used #8159 .020 (.51mm). I’m sorry I didn’t keep the containers previously, I know that would help a lot. 

[Unegawahya]

I also had this beautiful 3D printed stanchions recently shared to my page. That may be another way!

[JSGerson]

Unegawahya - The finial is phenomenal, especially the spoke hub. It looks like the assembly was made from 3 or 4 pieces. What is the basic diameter? When I get to it, I would like to reproduce it, so any details you can provide would be helpful.

 

In total admiration, Jon

[Unegawahya]

3 hours ago, JSGerson said:

Unegawahya - The finial is phenomenal, especially the spoke hub. It looks like the assembly was made from 3 or 4 pieces. What is the basic diameter? When I get to it, I would like to reproduce it, so any details you can provide would be helpful.

 

In total admiration, Jon

Yes the finial and the spoke hub are about 4 pieces. I need to sit down and make a post on the method I used. I’m hoping I may have time today to get it done!

[Der Alte Rentner]

Hey Jon, 

 

Given as I've said many times, that you're this website's go to guy for Conny related info, may I ask?

 

Do you know who build a very nice version of the Constitution but quit after completing the hull?  I seem to remember the build included the lower segments of all masts and the bowsprit, but apart from the guns, there was no rigging.  

[JSGerson]

Ohh, I bet you thought you had me on this one. I know of 38 builds which have not been completed (at least not posted online). I defined a build as dormant if I have not seen any postings for two or more years. Of the 38, 17 are not Model Shipways full hull:

• Billing Boats - 1
• Bluejacket - 3
• Constructo - 1
• Mamoli - 4
• Mantua - 1
• Scientific - 2
• Scratch - 1
• MS Cross Section - 2
• Mamoli Cross Section - 2
• Scratch Cross Section - 1

That leaves 24 incomplete builds. Based on your query of a completed hull with partial masts and no rigging, I have these four candidates:

• Jeff Toma
• Livingstoneman
• Maturin52
• Mundie

 

If none of these four are not the build you remembered, maybe he wasn't building a Model Shipways model. I still might have him listed as an active builder (25) who has posted in the last year or so but just not recently. These I haven't checked. Then of course there are the completed builds (28). Let me know if I should look some more.

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

5 hours ago, JSGerson said:

Ohh, I bet you thought you had me on this one. 

Not at all! I had every confidence that you would know. I'm not at home now, so it's a little bit harder for me to check the site, but it could have been Mundie, if the old gray cells haven't let me down again.

 

Thanks for digging through your archives.  

Best.

[Der Alte Rentner]

Nope, it wasn't Mundie.  I've been back through my entire list of "Followed Content" and simply cannot find the build I distinctly remember.  The builder even commented at the end that he didn't have the time and space to continue and was calling it a wrap.  Oh well, I was just trying to be helpful to another builder who might benefit from the info.  

 

Thanks for trying though.  You're the man!

[JSGerson]

I went back and looked at the other model brands and think I found what you were looking for, complete with the farewell. I had him mislabeled as a non-MS model builder.

 

Captain Steve

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

No, it wasn't Captain Steve,  I remember seeing a photo of the completed hull on display on a bookshelf. Captain Steve never finished the hull. I appreciate the effort you're going through Jon, but it's really not worth it. Thanks for giving it the old College try, though.  I promise, if I ever find it, I'll get back to you.

[JSGerson]

Are you sure the log was on MSW? Could it have been on Ships of Scale or Model Ship Builder?

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

I'm positive it was at model ship world. Well, unless it's only in my head..  😁

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 11/11/2024 at 1:46 PM, JSGerson said:

That leaves 24 incomplete builds. Based on your query of a completed hull with partial masts and no rigging, I have these four candidates:

• Jeff Toma

I had to kill some time this morning before heading out for an eye exam.  So, I opted out of the shipyard and perused MSW Constitution builds ad nauseam instead. 

 

When I reviewed the Jeff Toma build, I had to ask myself, was this indeed the one I remembered?  Though my recollection of where he left off doesn't quite jive, I must admit, this may have been the one.    I would have cut the lower mast sections short and painted them before calling it quits, but here's hoping Jeff someday comes back to finish it.  

 

Once again, you're the go-to guy for Conny arcanity!