HMS Victory by Zarkon - Constructo - Scale 1:94

[Tigersteve]

Joining late on this one. Nice job so far. What a learning experience. This is worth following even if just to collect tips and tricks from Dan. 

Steve

[Zarkon]

I have done some work on the hatches.  Im thinking of adding 1 hatch to the left of the main mast as shown in the book but not in the kit.

 

I have painted the deck floor black where the gratings will be. I need to also build the stairs as well.

 

 

Jeff

 

 

[Zarkon]

Well, this is a really sad day. My birthday was today and this happens:

 

The deck is destroyed, parts of the bulkhead were torn off, a hole in one of the hatches, and part of the ply piece where the gun ports stick from is torn off...

 

This is a nightmare come true!!!!! 

 

I'm not sure where to go from here. My heart is broken right now...

 

Jeff

[RichardG]

I'm really sorry to see this.

 

May I suggest you take a break and come back to it in a while. Please don't do anything rash.

 

All the best,

Richard.

 

 

[Zarkon]

13 minutes ago, RichardG said:

I'm really sorry to see this.

 

May I suggest you take a break and come back to it in a while. Please don't do anything rash.

 

All the best,

Richard.

 

 

You are right. I won't do anything rash. I tripped while holding it and fell over hard.  It broke my fall, but it broke like this too.

 

Im ok, but have some scrapes because of the wood. Ouch!

 

Jeff

[S.Coleman]

Its shouldn't be too much of a repair. Just attack it bit by bit. As long as you are ok is the main thing 

[Dan Vadas]

Unlucky there Jeff . Just remember - there is virtually NOTHING on a wooden model that can't be fixed with some Isopropyl Alcohol, a knife, a bit of new deck timber and the right attitude . The bulkheads will simply glue back on - I hope you still have the broken pieces, otherwise make a few new bits from leftover ply.

 

I've had to fix a much more serious problem before when I dropped my HMS Vulture and broke the Stem off. It only took about 4 hours, and the second attempt actually turned out a bit better than the first . See THIS LINK for some inspirations.

 

BTW - Happy Birthday.

 

  Danny

[leginseel]

Really sorry Jeff, happy birthday anyway. Richards advice to take a break may be best but keep your perspective- it's wood and it can be fixed. All the very best and I look forward to seeing it back on stream soon. 

[Zarkon]

Thanks everyone for the nice encouraging comments! They have inspired me to sit down and think about what I want to get out of this model.  I took a few days off to relax and think about what I want to do and how I want to fix it.  I think I came up with a solution that, I hope, will actually work out better in the end.  It will require more effort, time, and materials, but if it goes well, will result in a better outcome than what I had completed before the insident.

 

 I am not deterred and will continue on! I might not post much for a week or so because I'll be busy with figuring out how I want to proceed.

 

Jeff

[Tigersteve]

Good plan!

Steve

[Altduck]

Jeff,

I'm glad that a few days off gave you a new perspective and a plan for a better project.

I hope the rest of your build goes well.

[leginseel]

Good for you Jeff, keep your chin up mate. 

[AntonyUK]

Hi Jeff.

Happy birthday m8.

As Dan has said. Wood is easy repairable and Dan's examples on some of his repair jobs for other people are amazing.

Save the bits.

Scots advice is good. "Its shouldn't be too much of a repair. Just attack it bit by bit. As long as you are ok is the main thing "

 

And it happens to most of us at one time or the other.

Chip UP.

 

Regards Antony.

 

 

[Zarkon]

Thanks everyone for your comments and support!  Its really helpful for me and keeps me wanting to do better!

 

 

Its been a little while,  but I have been thinking a lot about this. After the upper deck got damaged, I took a hard look at it and felt I could do better.  Like you guys said, it's wood, so it can be fixed!

So, I took the rest of it off.  This allowed me to then make another decision: to move the main mast to the correct positon based upon the plans in the book, not the kit!  Not only that, I noticed that the stairs going down to the middle deck never looked that good because if you would have looked down to it, you would see the sides of the plywood frames.  So I decides to fix that too:

At this point, I really felt like Dr Frankenstein!  So really, I realized I just have undone pretty much everything. But I think that  if I can pull this off, it will end up much better.

 

Bear with me! (I must be crazy at this point) Sawing off more of the frames allowed me to:

1) More easily move the main mast

2) Plank a good portion of the middle deck

3) Put in the hatches, doors, and build more cannons for the middle deck among other things.

4) Allow me to half-plank the upper deck so you can see into the middle deck

Ect...

 

The first thing to do was to re-position the main mast. I took a lot of measurements from the book and triple checked the position. I removed the false keel section and bracers and replaced them:

Then I marked and drilled the new mast hole.

 

Next, I needed to create the middle deck. I went to the local craft shop and got 2 basswood sheets for this task:

 

I also marked out the important bits like the hatches, stairs, etc. I will put in more detail later as I get closer to actually planking the deck.

Finally, tonight, I was satisfied with it and glued the right side:

Tomorrow, I will finish up the left side and glue that on too.

 

WHEW! I know I'm not going to make the next set of stairs down to the lower deck because I think I'm doing enough modifications already, and I don't feel like cutting up anymore of the frames and things.

 

Lastly, you might have noticed I also cut off the side of the frames too (the bits of the frames that cover the middle deck upwards). Before I did that, I made sure that I had kept the laser cut ply leftover board where the frames came out of. Im tracing them to the correct curve and will place them back on the model AFTER I sand down most of the hull for planking. I don't want to place them on and accidentally break them off during the fileing/sanding.

 

Well, thats a lot and it required much thinking, debating, and a whole LOT of measuring! But hopefully, in the end,  a better model will come out of it. 

 

Thanks for all your support!

 

Jeff

[leginseel]

Absolutely brilliant Jeff. You are an inspiration and through your clear thinking and first rate application I'm sure you'll end up with a much better model. Congratulations. 

[Dan Vadas]

7 hours ago, Zarkon said:

hopefully, in the end,  a better model will come out of it.

It certainly will Jeff - courageous decision to replace that much, but it's already worth the effort if for no other reason than to give you the confidence to do something similar in the future if needed . You're well on the way to the Dark Side of Scratchbuilding .

 

7 hours ago, Zarkon said:

4) Allow me to half-plank the upper deck so you can see into the middle deck

OK, here's a thought. Now that nothing scares you what about adding all the PROPER Deck Beams, Carlings and Ledges to the Upper Deck (at least on the unplanked side) to really make it something great. This will of course require a lot of Scratchbuilding of these pieces, but it's something to think about. There are plenty of Fully Framed build logs on this site that you could follow for the details - my HMS Vulture has all the beams etc if you care to check it out.

 

Keep up the good work .

 

  Danny

[Zarkon]

Thanks you guys for the comments! It made my day reading them!

 

Dan, question for you.  I really like the idea of adding the deck beams, carlings, and ledges to the upper deck! I have the plans so I'm good with what I need to build.  My question is, what's the normal wood used to build those pieces? I've looked around, but couldn't figure out what wood I should use. That step is farther out in the build,  but I woukd like to get the supplies.

 

Thanks!!

Jeff 

[Paul Jarman]

Jeff,

Read through your log. You are having fun aren't you. 

You have done some brilliant work on saving the odd mishap. Perseverance and patience are what make good wooden ship modellers and you are  showing that with this build. Keep up the good work your Victory is looking very good.

Paul

 

[Dan Vadas]

7 hours ago, Zarkon said:

what's the normal wood used to build those pieces?

I'm glad you're going for the beams etc . I'd suggest either Swiss Pear (a light brown, slightly pinkish timber which is what I used for them) or Castello Boxwood which is a light yellowish colour and a bit harder than Pear. Either will give you nice crisp edges and is easy to work with sharp tools. Check out Crown Timberyard, one of MSW's sponsors on the main page, for the timber.

 

  Danny

[Zarkon]

On 9/2/2017 at 3:53 PM, Dan Vad said:

Check out Crown Timberyard, one of MSW's sponsors on the main page, for the timber.

I looked at Crown Timberyard, and it is a really nice site! The only issue I have is that the store always says it's under maintenance and I haven't heard back from trying to contact them.  I would like to check their prices, but since I can't add anything to my cart, I can't tell how much I will have to spend on the materials.  I see that there are other wood suppliers that are MSW's sponsors, so I might have to look there.  

[Tigersteve]

Wood project source is very good also. http://www.woodprojectsource.com/

Steve

[ca.shipwright]

Zarkon,

I see you are located in Virginia. Apple wood or, for that matter, any orchard wood is good to use for ship modeling. With all the apple orchards in Virginia, you should be able to score some free wood and mill it yourself if you have the proper tools. Cherry is another good wood for modeling.

[Zarkon]

2 hours ago, ca.shipwright said:

With all the apple orchards in Virginia, you should be able to score some free wood and mill it yourself if you have the proper tools

That is a great idea! We live close to some apple orchards actually.   I could go by and ask! I never thought of that before.  I might also get some cherry soon and see how it looks.

 

2 hours ago, Tigersteve said:

Wood project source is very good also

Thanks Steve!  I checked out their site and was able to order some boxwood!

 

I had to order strips for deck planking because if I used the supplied kit strips,  I know I would run out before I was done. 

 

I finally was able to add the hatches and stair sections to the middle deck (minus the gratings I will add those in a bit). I used the book plans for the placement, size,  and thickness of the wood.   I think it turned out better than when I did this for the upper deck.   Next up, is either to plank this deck, or cut out the side frames and glue them on.  I'm leaning more towards finishing the frames first and then plank. 

 

Jeff 

[Zarkon]

I'm not entirely sure what to do about the ends of this middle deck.  I don't want any ply to show, but not sure what would be the best solution.

The markings on the edges of the deck portray the gunports. I marked them now so I could see where they would be placed and if they will hit any of the frames that I need to make. 

 

This is where part of my problen lies. As you can see, the last gunports on both sides are very close to the frame. Should I build a wall on the frames next to the laat gunports? Should I cut out more of the frames so the cannon has more space between? Should I say, "HECK WITH IT!!!!" And mow down the rest of the frames and fully model the middle deck? I swear, it feels like once you have done some scrarch building, it's hard to stop! I dont need the model to be 100% accurate, but placing a wall right after the last marked gunports doesn't feel right to me.

 

I plan on planking only half of the upper deck (but adding the deck beams, ect ) so you can see through to the middle deck.

 

Any opinions would be very welcome!

 

Jeff

[leginseel]

Wow Jeff you are really up against it mate.  I presume that the frames etc are to scale as per the original kit?  I've not progressed to the Victory yet (as you know) so I'm probably not the right person to give advice, but looking at it objectively and if as you say you are not looking for 100% authenticity, then I would start by veneering any exposed plywood.  I presume that if the gun port is obstructed by the frame and you cannot mount a cannon properly then make it so that it looks aesthetically correct from the outside.  In other words frigg it.  This may not be the answer you're looking for but I'm with you and feel your pain mate.  Keep positive and I'm sure more experienced guys will come up with a better solution.

 

[AntonyUK]

Hi Jeff.

Nice recovery. And walking straight into the frying pan. 

I do not this kit so an not going to tell you one way or the other.

But do what your heart says. Right or wrong it's your model.

Look forward to your next posting with your sulution and fix.

 

Regards Antony.

[Dan Vadas]

17 hours ago, Zarkon said:

I swear, it feels like once you have done some scrarch building, it's hard to stop!

Ain't that the truth .

 

No doubt the Bulkhead is in the wrong place - a typical problem in Kits. I'd just line the bulkhead with the same timber you are using for the decks, or perhaps a different one for contrast (don't forget to put a couple of doors in ). There wasn't a great deal of room in real ships in some places, so I wouldn't stress about it. As long as the gun will actually fit it's all good. If you haven't already, I suggest you make one gun now and try it for size - you may get a good surprise if it fits OK . I think it will .

 

  Danny

[Zarkon]

On 9/9/2017 at 4:29 PM, Dan Vad said:

If you haven't already, I suggest you make one gun now and try it for size - you may get a good surprise if it fits OK . I think it will .

I have made 1 gun and you are correct, it does fit! Barely haha!!  So thats all well and good!

 

I figured out what I will do with the ends of the middle deck. Like both Dan and leginseel said, I will be planking the sides as walls.  I will make the galley room  with doors, but extend the wall to the edges of the deck to cover up the bulkhead.  On the other side, I will be building my own wall after the stairs to the lowet deck.  I will be adding some detail to these walls (and doors too!).  Im not going to do this yet until I get the deck planking wood so I can figue out what wood would go well with it.

 

I should get the wood in a week or so since they said they were really busy and should be shipped today.

 

I realized I don't have enough hatch gratings for the model since I am adding the middle deck.  I want them to be uniform,  so I ordered some gratings from Syren Model ship company.  Wow! What a difference in quality!  I'll be using only hatches from Syren on this model.  I built a few and I really like what they look like!

After making them, I realized I made the hatches in the wrong order. Because the gratings won't  fit. Duh! A very noob mistake.  So I will be making the hatches again after making the gratings of the correct size. Live and learn.  I feel like I am making about every mistake in the book so far.

 

After making the gun, I realized that I will need to make an extra 18+ guns with carrages to fill the new middle deck.  So I won't have enough from the kit.  Would you guys recommend getting them from Syren too?  What I am concerned about is that if I only get the extra that I will need, they won't look the same as the upper deck guns (both the cannons and the carrages).   I'm  wondering if I will need to replace the upper deck cannons/carreges too. I do want it to be uniform (both quality and wood color) and I think it would bother me if the cannons/carrages looked different on these decks.  I did realize how off the gun carrages are in the kit compared to the plans in the book. 

Slowly, but surely, I am realizing how different these kits are from the actual ships.

 

While I'm  waiting for the wood, I realized the laser cut stern part is shapped too differently than the kit plans, the book plans, and dry fitting it to the keel.  The kit shows it will butt up against the keel directly and not onto the hull planks.  I want to make another one from scratch but have a few small questions.   Should I make it with 1 piece of wood, or try to cut out the individual sections like the book plans show for a little sense of realism?  Lastly, how do you create the elongaded holes in the stern (where the #27 is)? 

 

I know my build is really slow, but it should pick up some once I recieve the deck planks.  Once I have that, I will be able to finally start to build the middle deck!

 

Thanks for reading!!!

 

Jeff

[leginseel]

Hi Jeff, you're really getting there well done for perseverance. Don't beat yourself up over having to check everything on the kit as I'm having to do the same on my Constructo kit. The cannon were really poor compared to the book so I re made the carriages from scratch, unfortunately it seems to be a fact of life with these kits. As for re making or re fashioning any part one thing I have done is buy a mixed box of balsa wood which is dead cheap any easy to work with and I've made patterns with it to prove my ideas work rather than wasting time money and effort on the best wood. Regarding the holes I drilled mine at each end of the slot and joined them by filing. Keep up the good work mate. 

[Dan Vadas]

Regarding Guns, a major problem with a lot of Kits (some are worse than others) is that they have a "one size fits all" policy, regardless of whether they are 4 Pounders or 24 Pounders and sometimes even the wrong scale altogether.

8 hours ago, Zarkon said:

After making them, I realized I made the hatches in the wrong order. Because the gratings won't  fit. Duh! A very noob mistake.

Don't worry, I did the same thing on my first ship .

 

Quote

Should I make it with 1 piece of wood, or try to cut out the individual sections like the book plans show for a little sense of realism?

Making it from individual pieces isn't all that difficult, and if you run the grain in different directions using "real" shipbuilding practices the effect is a lot more realistic and looks a lot better. It's worth the effort. Shape and glue the whole Knee of the Head together on the workbench, and glue it to the keel when it's finished. Or see THIS LINK for how I constructed Vulture's Knee.

 

As far as the Gammoning Slots are concerned the easiest way is to drill a hole at each end and remove the middle with an Xacto knife or Xacto chisel.

 

  Danny