V108 Torpedo Boat by amateur - Digital Navy - 1:200 - CARD

[amateur]

Two weeks ago I bought myself a paper-kit of a rather nice ship (a Dutch protected cruiser (Evertsen).

As there are no spare parts in that one, I decided to do a warming-up, by building the V108 Torpedo boat.

Why: Quite simple: it is a rather nice little ship, there is an excelent tutorial of it in MSW, and last-but-not least, it is a free download, so if I screw things up, I can just start over.

 

I made some little prgress over the last two weeks.

Learning a few lessons:

cheap cardboard is a no-go for most parts: it is curving in all directions.

 

Keep your knife straight, otherwise you get a nice bevel on your frames where you don't want it:

Don't force, otherwise straight parts aren't straight anymore:

You can use a glass plate, and lots of tamiya tape to correct allmost all problems mentioned above

And finally: now I know what dictionaries are for:

 

To be continued.....

 

Jan  

 

Ps: how do I remove uploaded pics that shouldn't be here? That skeleton of Eversten keeps popping up

 

found it

 

 

[Dan Vadas]

Another Card build to follow, Hi Jan . A few lessons learned already, lots more to come .

 

A couple of suggestions, just from looking at the tools you are using :

 

Buy a Swann-Morton Scalpel before you get into any tricky cutting. The blades are a lot sharper than Xacto, and a better shape as well. The tips of the Xacto blades are too pointed and snap off easily, whereas the scalpel blades have a rounded (top) end that is hard to break. You can buy them on-line from many sources such as Ebay.

 

Diamond coated Needle Files work great on paper, much better than straight-cut files. They also work in any direction . Also available on Ebay.

 

  Danny

[amateur]

I don' know how my scalpel did it, but it managed to keep out of the picture. It is there anyway. Couldn'r do without.

the needle files are on my long list if things to buy.

I am looking for a source of the swan scalpels in large quantities. Here in the Netherlands they are hatd to come by, and postage from abroad is a bit high, compared to the actual price of the knives...

 

jan

 

 

[Dan Vadas]

THESE ONES are a great price Jan. FREE postage too . They're worth buying by the box of 100.

 

  Danny

[amateur]

Some progress.

I see I have some difficulty to get my pictures sharp and clear. Presumably because I take them from short distance with a flash, somewhere late at night

 

I laminated the decking (on newly bought cardboard: it curves up only a bit, and it is much, much nicer to my scalpel)

(but boy, how hazy the pic is )

 

There seemed to be some problem in the height of the central stringer and the frames. After some measuring I decided that the mid-frame was too low, so some filler was needed:

 

And then the deck went on (actually, it is the second deck, as the first had far too much glue on the top-side  )

Which learned me two new lessons: beware of too much glue, and second: make sure you have enough colour cartridges in your stack  )

 

 

So much for now,

 

Jan

 

[Piet]

Looking good Jan, nice progress,

 

Cheers,

[amateur]

And a dry-fit for the other half of the hull. Frame 1 was a bit fiddly: the slot almost divides the thing in two separate halves...

Just now I started wondering: the model can be build full-hull and waterline-only. Therefore,. the hull plating of the upper part covers the sides of the base-plate. On the other hand:  the plating of the lower hull also covers the sides of that base plate. Therefore: after attaching the lower hull, the base plate is wider than it shoudl be for the upper hull. Am I seeing problem were no problems are, or should I trim down the baseplate by .3 mm on all sides

 

Jan

[Dan Vadas]

47 minutes ago, amateur said:

Am I seeing problem were no problems are, or should I trim down the baseplate by .3 mm on all sides

No, you're thinking it out well . To my way of thinking there are two ways to modify the hull plating.

 

The first is as you described, trim both skins by 0.3mm to get the join in the middle of the baseplate. This is double work as far as trimming goes and doesn't leave you much to glue the skins to.

 

My preferred method would be to glue strips of 0.5mm or 0.8mm card UNDERNEATH the baseplate level with the edge of it and just trim the lower skins. Not only do you have to trim only the lower skins you get the added advantage of having a bit more surface to glue the skins to. It's not that easy butting two skins over a 0.6mm thick bulkhead or baseplate.

 

I also suggest that you DON'T cut the extra 0.6mm off the lower skins at first. Spot glue each skin to the keel at the fore and aft edges, test the skin to make sure it's going to fit neatly to the upper skin (which you should always fit first) and then mark the cut positions, remove the skin again and trim the necessary amount off. Sometimes you can finish with a slight gap or overlap between the upper and lower skins if the bulkheads are a fraction out of shape.

 

One last thing - there seem to be (at least) two areas where the bulkheads are a fair way apart. I had the same with my kit, so I glued some extra pieces of card longitudinally between them to lessen the chances of accidentally crushing the skins in those areas.

 

  Danny

[amateur]

Hadnt thought of that option, I'll try to think it out.

problem sits in the aftermoth skinpart, that has quite an angle to the upper hull part. Im not quite sure, but i think the designer did n't go for butting, but for overlapping skinparts.

 

Jan

Edited September 15, 2017 by amateur

[Dan Vadas]

7 hours ago, amateur said:

problem sits in the aftermost skinpart, that has quite an angle to the upper hull part.

Don't forget to Fair the bulkheads (and any extra card you may add), the same as you would for a wooden ship. They look thin enough not to worry about it, but trust me it's absolutely VITAL.

 

  Danny

[amateur]

Thanks!

[amateur]

Another interesting result.

I had a bottom plate, flattened. I had a deck (laminated on proper cardboard, flat as a glass plate)

I attached the bottom plate to a glass plate, glued the frames and the deck onto it, let it dry under a considerable weight.

Yesterday, I took the upper hull from the glass plate, to attach the lower hull. But....the aft end of the hull curved up by almost 3 millimeters (which is considerable, given the fact that the height of the hull is slightly over 1 cm....

(btw: the curving up of the hull is something I have experienced in more paper-build in my younger years, so lousy cardboard can not be the only explanation  )

 

Option I see

a: glue a serious wooden stringer along the lower side (but that will take some modification of the frames in the lower hull

b: ignore and continue

c: use some force to counterbend, and hope it will get  better after attaching the lower hull plates

d: restart, but without knowing the source of the problem, I am afraid that the outcome will be the same.....

 

At the moment I tend to option c.

 

Jan

 

 

 

[Dan Vadas]

Option C will help, but you'll have some trouble gluing the skins on straight. I'd opt for Option A - you need to start straight or you'll face serious problems later on.

 

I tend to agree with your diagnosis - lousy cardboard.

 

  Danny

[amateur]

Took me some time, but today I managed some work

 

last week i doubled all frames (below waterline).  

next I attached the first bottom plate. Put it in model by rolling it on the inside with my x-acto knife handle, on an oldfashioned (foam) mousemat. Worked perfect

after the glue tacked, IPutthe second skin on. It almost fitted

 

 

some disaapointment when I removed the tape, after drying. Somehow the colour sticks to the tape. Glue residue, sooemthing to do with my print, I dont know. Need for touch-ups ...

and I had a very small overlap at the corner. I cut a very small sliver away, but in the end that turned out to be a chunk that was way too large. Some need for touch up....

I will dollow the kit in making an overlap between the lower and the upper hull. Butting red aginst grey seems to be too much of a ask for me.

 

apart from the need for touch-up, I am not too disappointed: some slight starving cow effect, but not too much. All other skins are curved, angled and otherwise problematic, so I keep my fingers crossed

 

Jan

[Dan Vadas]

Jan, did you give the printed sheets a coat of matt sealer before cutting them out? I found this helps a lot to protect the printing.

 

  Danny

[amateur]

Nope, straight from the printer....

will have a look in the shop.

 

Jan

[amateur]

Finally, found some time to work on the hull.

again a learningpoint: find some acceptable glue.

this one tacks easily, but is rather thick, and is setting too quick, resulting in those nastly 'threads' of dry glue when applied with a small applicator.

 

now I have to fins my pics.... (I took them, but where did I leave them ...)

 

Jan

 

[Dan Vadas]

11 minutes ago, amateur said:

again a learningpoint: find some acceptable glue.

this one tacks easily, but is rather thick, and is setting too quick, resulting in those nastly 'threads' of dry glue

What type of glue is it Jan? Sounds like a solvent-based one? I use an acid-free PVA Craft glue, which can be thinned with water if needed (usually not).

 

 

  Danny

[amateur]

Yip, solvent one.

I discarded the pva, as it tended to leave visible changes in the card due to rhe water, might switch back to PVA though,

 

below the promised pics: bow and stern closed. No problems (apart from fingers wirh glue  )

 

[Dan Vadas]

1 hour ago, amateur said:

I discarded the pva, as it tended to leave visible changes in the card due to rhe water, might switch back to PVA though

Jan, I've found there are huge differences in PVA glues. I started off with a common one that I used for wood (with good results) but it wasn't acid-free and it also affected the paper like yours does. The special Craft glue doesn't make the paper swell, as it's designed to be used for paper.

 

Here's the one I'm using, but there are many other brands that will probably do the job :

 

 

  Danny

 

 

[amateur]

After an afternoon struggling with tiny piecies, I can tell you. Although our first 'paper experience' dates back to early childhood, building with paper IS NOT EASY😡

 

I did the backside of the ship, and one side up to the bow (including rubbing strips)

 

Although looking OK from a distance, I am not quite pleased with the result.

1. The grey tends to t nd to yellow/green when in contact with water. Strange, as the ink should be waterproof.....

2. I can't get the colour of my paint correct, it is something else than flat grey, so, making corrections is not easy .....

3 due to thefact that upper and lower hull do not butt,but overlap, i needed a small filler between both hull parts, to get enough lenght at the bow. Will createa minor problem with part 17 (formost bulkhead)

 

having said all that, here are some low quality (cellphone) pics.

 

over all view from acceptable distance

 

 

Filler peice, and some paint, as the after part of the bow section lost some colour. Under flashlight, the grey is even more off than in real life

 

Same on the other side...I grabbed the mod l with wet fingers, so there was a rather yellowy discolouration in that area. I guess this will be the "wall side" of this model,especially while the rubbing strip is off by at least half a millimeter (width of the strip is around 1.5 just for reference) 

 

and the last pic of today: the gluestrip for the upper deck.

Edited December 2, 2017 by amateur

[amateur]

It always looks so simple when other people show their magnificent progress.

So here is one to cheer you less-gifted modellers up

 

when closing the hull on the other side, it provd that I had 1.5 mm short. I printed the part again to cut a piece of the required length. Guess what: my printer gave an other colour, but next to my not-so-well-executed paint job, it doen't matter too much

 

more of a problem was the first oart of the superstructure. In his tutorial Chris showed how it should look. Well, this is how it turned out.

as the base and top floor were severely out of line, this part will be scrapped. Hope my printer will provide me with something comparable...

 

and finally: the front deck: the first tabs are glued, but I am not quite sure how to procede. (And on this macro I see the next problem coming: the tabs are not lined up properly....

 

Well, it is only intended as a practice model

 

Jan

 

 

[ccoyle]

Never fear, Jan. I have not come across any card model yet that didn't require some amount of "fixing" to get it right. This is just part of the required (and thus necessarily acquired as well) skill set.

[amateur]

I got the deck closed, but unfortunatedly, the pressure needed for that made the hull crack (just under the glueing tab attached to the hull)

 

and I will redo the superstructure. The parts are ready, but the paint on the deck edge needs to dry before I start gluing (waterbased glue, so it will not grab on a wet / damp surface)

 

both decks are rounded the same way, so I hope that there will be no twisting this time. No building time tomorrow, so plenty of drying time

 

Jan

 

Edited December 28, 2017 by amateur

[Dan Vadas]

Without trying to sound too critical Jan, if something needs that amount of pressure to make it fit that it cracks the hull there's some sort of problem that should have been fixed before gluing. If all things are right you should only need enough pressure to keep the joint tight until the glue dries. It looks to me like more "dry fitting" may have prevented this unfortunate incident.

 

I think the framing card is far too thin for a model of this size. Most kits use card of 1mm thickness for the framing, which is strong enough to support a small car (maybe I exaggerate a little ).

 

Another thing to watch out for, and I've had this problem when I first started using card, is to use as little glue as possible. Too much glue softens the paper which can cause it to buckle.

 

  Danny

[amateur]

Hi Dan,

 

The framing card is just under 1 mm thick, making the laminated card just over 1 mm thick. There is no probl m there. (In my other build, the framing card is a bit thin: same thickness as the other parts). Thicker card would not have prevented this: there is no frame where the hull cracked.

 

the other points you make are my learning points here. (And no, you don't sound toocritical: it is more 'factual')

one learning point is the (handling) of glue: the waterbased glue softens the paper (and it loosens the colour layer). That's what happened here: too much glue, sofftening of the tabs, therefore the gap didn't close. I thought that a little more pressure would close the gap, but I put too much pressure on... 

 

but as I said: it is my first of this type of model, so it is intended as a practice model.

perhaps I should redo it after I finish this version.

 

Jan

Edited December 29, 2017 by amateur

[amateur]

Oh, an I forgot one: patience. I tend to let go before the glue fully grabs.

that increases the problem

 

Jan

[amateur]

Todays wether wasn't that good, so the planned day out turned out to be a short day.....on the bright side: some building time.

 

the superstructure turned out relatively OK ( the rounded side of the deck slighly oversized, so i was short of .5mm. Used a spare piece to fill in. Viewed without close-up lense it is passable

next up: strip around the fore deck.

Around 1.5 mm wide, 5 cm long.

glued in three pieces (starting from the centre) it covers the ugly paper edge of the deck. I still need to add the column under the deck.

And another trying part (at least, for me..,)

 

close-ups should be forbidden.....;) it looks pretty OK in real life, as do those 4mm hatches for the coal bunkers.

 

Jan

 

 

[Dan Vadas]

20 minutes ago, amateur said:

the rounded side of the deck slighly oversized, so i was short of .5mm

That's easy to do on rounded pieces, I've done the same myself occasionally. What looks good on a computer doesn't always work in reality . Yep, looks good from a distance .

 

  Danny

[amateur]

I had some time today.

I did the forward funnel, and that large air-vent, ot what is called....

I also did two other small parts, but my cellphone would not focus properly on something under 5 milimeters.....

 

all in all a couple of hours work....

 

have to think over the ladder on the funnel, have to do some inide painting.

my printer did, unfortunatedly, not print the locator marks very clear. Is a bit of a problem when centering the parts....

 

jan