Glue Recommendations

[leehound]

I am starting this hobby again after a false start 25 years ago.

 

I would really like to get an understanding on what glues are used. I know that CA seems to be the primary glue used or is it? I see that CA comes in Super Thin all the way to Extra Thick. Can someone shed some light on how these differnt viscosities are used?

 

Thanks

 

Scott

[lamarvalley]

Good day Scott and welcome back to the hobby.

There will be variations on the opinions but I use wood glue 95% of the time... titebond II and their new transparent that dries clear. This allows for a slow set time usually with the need to clamp the parts in some fashion. Serves my needs quite well.

I use thin CA for immediate attachment and for me is my least favorite because it can run due to it's super low viscosity. When I use it almost every time I end up with some on me somewhere.

Thicker CA's set a bit slower and allow a few more moments for adjustment or placement and I prefer that feature.

They all have their place and sit back and wait for it, I'm just the first to respond... my guess is this will be a popular thread... you came to the right place to get educated.

 

Randy

[augie]

Hi Scott...and welcome aboard MSW.

 

You'll get a lot of opinions on adhesives.  Many here don't use CA and prefer PVA wood glues. I use both but I'll confine my comments to your CA question.

 

IN GENERAL, the thicker the CA the longer it takes to set.  Thin is the fastest but it can really get all over the place (including you).  Medium is a little more versatile.  Also, the thicker it is, the stronger the bond.  The CA's are debonded with acetone ---keep that in mind if you glue your fingers together.

 

None of them sand very well and you always run the risk of sanding away your wooden part and the offending CA is still there.  They can also leave a 'shine' so have some 'Dullcoat' flat lacquer handy if you need to cover that.

 

As if it doesn't set fast enough, they sell accelerator.  This can actually be useful with the thicker grades.

 

Some folks report they are allergic to the fumes so be careful if your working inside a confined space (like inside the hull) and you have your face right in it.

 

If you try and use it on a painted part, it will grab the paint and not the part.  Any force will take the paint and part off.  What I do there is roughen the painted surface before I glue it.  Or even poke tiny holes in it to allow the CA to penetrate.

 

Hope this gives you some ideas.

[JPett]

Ahoy Scott

 

Welcome to MSW

 

I like the Titebond Original Wood Glue http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=d4d28015-603f-4dfc-a7d9-f684acc71207

 

Drying time is not as fast as CA but I find this beneficial for this hobby

 

Almost no odor and because it is not waterproof mistakes are easily removed using a 50/50 solution of water and 99% isopropyl alcohol and some heat (RC heat gun)

 

Water clean up

 

I rarely use CA.

 

 

[Padeen]

Hi Scott,

I guess it also depends on your dexterity... I have not built much yet but I use PVA as much as possible: with my few CA attempts (I don't know which type of CA exactly) I ended up with fingers glued together or to the ship! And PVA can actually be removed with water which comes in handy when some mistake happens...

This being said, it's just my two cents'...

[rlb]

Welcome, Scott.   Good luck your new "start".

 

I'm personally not a big fan of CA.  I used it for parts that wood glue wouldn't work on for my first model, but currently, for metal, plastic parts, I'm finding I like epoxy better than CA.  For all porous materials, wood, paper, etc., I greatly prefer PVA (I use Elmer's regular white glue).

 

Ron

[Beef Wellington]

Hi Scott, my thoughts as a newbie as well.  I thought I would prefer to use CA glue as it seemed much more convenient, but echoing the sentiments of others I've found the PVA to be much more pleasurable to work with and resort to CA only when necessary.  I saw a comment recently which I loved which was that CA glue seems to set much to fast when you don't need it, and way too slow when you do.

 

DanVad in included a good tip which I really appreciated and found helpful which was to coat both surfaces (not using too much!), you can get a good bond surprisingly quickly (nowhere near as fast as CA) although its worth leaving to dry fully to be safe.

[ScottRC]

I also prefer PVA (Gorilla or Elmer’s Tight bond is common locally) for general building.  Easy to clean up, no odors or fumes that burn the eyes, much less expensive, and can be diluted with water or isopropyl alcohol and ran through a syringe to get into really tight areas.  I use CA when I need a really fast, strong joint made. And two part epoxy for high stress joints.

[Geoff Matson]

I use a glue called Weldbond, sold at Ace Hardware. Easy to debond using alcohol.

[slagoon]

I tried weldbond and didn't really like it.

 

As to the CA question, one other thing to consider with choosing between viscosity of those glues is what you are going to be bonding together. If you are putting two metal pieces together and there will be no clearance then you are maybe ok to use super thin, but if you are gluing two pieces of wood together you want to use a thicker one since there is more space between the grains and so you need to fill the "gaps" or you won't have good hold...

 

I will echo what many other people said....when I have the ability to use wood glue (my favorite is gorilla) I use that over CA every time.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Speaking of glue I have a question for you guys. I have read Donald McNarry's books and he never fails to mention a glue called Secotine. I THINK its a fish glue. Anyone here ever get their hands on any of it? I think Secotine is a brand name and maybe its available in the U.S. under a different name? Anyone ever use any sort of fish glue?

[DBorgens]

I have used meduim CA almost exclusively on my Bluenose. Recently, I have developed a sensitivity to it (not an allergy, I am a pro at those) so my next build will switch to PVA (Titebond).  Thin CA is good for hardening basswood for carving or making small parts, especially when basswood is all you have to work with. I still use it sparingly when parts are hard to clpam or align and need to set quickly.

[j21896]

What is preferred for gluing brass to wood?

 

Thanks,

Robert

[slagoon]

What is preferred for gluing brass to wood?

 

 

Hope

 

 

(I've used CA "gap filling" it works OK but make sure your brass is not greasy from your fingers and maybe even roughed a bit so that the glue has something to bite into)

[AntonyUK]

Hi.

As a of a month ago I used cascamite glue. Started my build and changed to a much bigger list.

For any timber I use Aliphatic sandable glue and Everbuild 502 wood adhesive.

I use CA glue on small pieces that require little bonding and speed glueing( not often used ).

I use a two part 30 minute set for strong bonds.

And I have a small contact adhesive for ?? Not used yet. But I like this stuff to do jobs where other glues will not work.

I also use varnish ( of the right colour ) to glue gratings.

 

Regards Antony.

[j21896]

Hope

 

 

(I've used CA "gap filling" it works OK but make sure your brass is not greasy from your fingers and maybe even roughed a bit so that the glue has something to bite into)

 

 

Thanks Sarah.  That's a bit scary.  Would some type of epoxy be better?

 

Robert

[augie]

The 'roughing up' of the metal surface is the key no matter what kind of adhesive you use Robert.  Sarah has the right idea. 

[JerseyCity Frankie]

My local art supply store sells dry Rabbit Skin glue flakes. Apparently you have to whip it up in a double boiler when you want to use it. I understand its the traditional glue of violin makers. This fact alone encourages me to give it a try one day event though it sounds like it could be smelly and nasty to prepare- its made of real rabbits after all. Has anyone given this glue a try and have some observations?

[leehound]

Wow, great response to my question! I am defiantly rethinking my preconcieved notions on glue.

 

Thanks

[j21896]

The 'roughing up' of the metal surface is the key no matter what kind of adhesive you use Robert.  Sarah has the right idea. 

 

Thanks Augie.  I should be installing some eyebolts in the not too distant future, and really don't want them pulling out during rigging.

 

Robert

[Dee_Dee]

Does CA glue have a ‘shelf life’?  Specifically, AFTER the bottle has been opened? 

 

Reason I ask, is for the past few months, I’ve been using a bottle of ‘Mercury Adhesives M300M’, orange label, medium viscosity, 2 ounce bottle.  Starting yesterday, this glue will not ‘set up’ and 'do its job.'  Today, I squirted some on to a piece of cardboard and two hours later, it was still sticky and ‘gloopy’ (a technical term.)  There’s about 15% left in the bottle (bottom of the label.)  I’m positive I did not contaminate the glue and always keep the cap on the bottle. 

 

With just 15% left in the bottle, is there too much air in the bottle?

 

The obvious fix is going forward I’ll stick with the one ounce bottles.  But I’m just curious why this happened.  ……Yes, I know what ‘they’ say about the curious cat.

 

It sounds like I use a lot of CA, but I don’t.  When I do use it, I squirt some onto cardboard and then apply with the tip of a bamboo skewer.  More than half of what goes onto the cardboard is still on the cardboard, no cross contamination as one side is for CA and the other for Elmer’s and separate bamboo skewers for each.   

 

Thanks

 

Dee Dee

[augie]

I don't know if any formal studies were ever run but I've seen CA do what you have described if it's been around for a long while after opening.  It will even change in a sealed container after a very long while.  Some folks keep their unopened bottles in the fridge and claim this helps.  Never tried that myself.

 

If you must use the batch that's giving you trouble, CA accelerator will make it set.  But I wouldn't trust it for high stress applications.

[Dee_Dee]

Thanks Augie.

 

The obvious is my bottle of CA is older than I thought!  Lesson learned!  Going forward, I’ll stick with one ounce bottles, purchase from vendors/stores that should have a high inventory turnover ratio and write the date on the bottle when opened.   

 

Thanks again!

 

Dee Dee

 

(Edited to correct spelling ect.)

Edited April 27, 2013 by Dee_Dee

[JPett]

Ahoy Dee Dee

 

I do not use CA glues very much on my ship models but use the accelerator anytime I use thick CA and highly recommend it. In my opinion, it is the only reason to use the thick CA. Set your part, one positioned introduce the accelerator and your parts are bonded. If I am looking for maximum strength, I use epoxy. No reason to rush, PVA glues. I even use it with the thin CA (just not all the time) if I am not getting the bond I want such as when tacking something being glued with PVA where I cannot maintain pressure.

 

The problem is most people do not know how to use it. Only apply the accelerator directly to the CA in extreme circumstances, the reaction is too strong. Apply the accelerator to a Q-tip and then bring it near the glue joint preferably underneath it. Do not make contact the fumes will cure the glue. If you can not get under the joint waft some air directing the fumes towards the joint (don't blow) This is all that is needed.

Edited April 27, 2013 by JPett

[Dee_Dee]

Ahoy Dee Dee

 

I do not use CA glues very much on my ship models but use the accelerator anytime I use thick CA and highly recommend it. In my opinion, it is the only reason to use the thick CA. Set your part, one positioned introduce the accelerator and your parts are bonded. If I am looking for maximum strength, I use epoxy. No reason to rush, PVA glues. I even use it with the thin CA (just not all the time) if I am not getting the bond I want such as when tacking something being glued with PVA where I cannot maintain pressure.

 

The problem is most people do not know how to use it. Only apply the accelerator directly to the CA in extreme circumstances, the reaction is too strong. Apply the accelerator to a Q-tip and then bring it near the glue joint preferably underneath it. Do not make contact the fumes will cure the glue. If you can not get under the joint waft some air directing the fumes towards the joint (don't blow) This is all that is needed.

 

My original question asked why CA glue goes bad and Augie responded – It happens!      

I’m addicted to breathing without a respirator for the rest of my natural born life. 

Thanks, but NO THANKS to using CA accelerators.  Keep your fumes to yourself.   

[JPett]

Ahoy MSW

 

I have reposted my original reply and addressed it to the community to whom much of its content was also directed. My hope is to restart the conversation in this thread that I enjoyed up to its abrupt and might I add “rude” interruption.

 

Ahoy MSW

 

 I do not use CA glues very much on my ship models but use the accelerator anytime I use thick CA and highly recommend it. In my opinion, it is the only reason to use the thick CA. Set your part, one positioned introduce the accelerator and your parts are bonded. If I am looking for maximum strength, I use epoxy. No reason to rush, PVA glues. I even use it with the thin CA (just not all the time) if I am not getting the bond I want such as when tacking something being glued with PVA where I cannot maintain pressure.

 

 

The problem is most people do not know how to use it. Only apply the accelerator directly to the CA in extreme circumstances, the reaction is too strong. Apply the accelerator to a Q-tip and then bring it near the glue joint preferably underneath it. Do not make contact the fumes will cure the glue. If you can not get under the joint waft some air directing the fumes towards the joint

(Don’t blow) That is all that is needed.

 

 

[Garward]

If you want to build models in the one-line mode, use СA, but only it is correct, according to recommendations. I constructed already some models with application of СA and is very happy with this glue.

[augie]

Was just cruising through when I noticed that a brief comment I made about the use of CA accelerator seemed to have sparked a conflict of sorts.  Or perhaps I've read too much into it.  Either way, we are all free to use, or not, any of the products or techniques discussed on MSW using the safety measures we each establish for ourselves.  Sometimes an otherwise well meaning or humorous statement can be misconstrued.

 

Hopefully we have  returned to our usual friendly dismeanor. 

[Garward]

Especially I like the slow (two-minute) СА glue PT 30 shown on a photo for a tree.

 

[JPett]

Ahoy Garward

 

How do you handle mistakes. This is one of my larger concerns

 

It also seems that you treat the wood first then glue it. Is this correct. Issues with staining CA bonded wood was another problem I had. Perhaps I was doing it backwards